Posts by scratchme1010

anyway, on monday the union (cwu) called a one day strike in support of colleagues and all union members supported the action as far as i'm aware, except the sister.. she claimed it was 'against her religion' to strike.

bare in mind, she's a fee paying member of the union.. now, a few of my workmates know of my past and asked me if this was really true, that jehovah's witnesses aren't allowed to strike.. we'll, i like this girl and i didn't want to make her look silly but what was i supposed to say after i stopped laughing?

scratchme1010

We'll, I like this girl and I didn't want to make her look silly but what was I supposed to say after I stopped laughing?

You don't stop liking her for standing for your own morals. Keep that in mind.

4

Anyone have a scan of this ...

by vienne in

about 1910 the brethren writer william d. forsyth self published a booklet entitled israel's greater faith contrasted with zion's watch tower.

i need a copy to further current research.

anyone?

scratchme1010

Never heard of such publication. Could you try a library/archives in the city where it was published?

30

Marrying yourself is now a thing....

by James Mixon in

jw
friends

ok i'am old so i need some help to understand this new thing, what's the point in marrying yourself?

this sound like a gb brain storm idea....i guess you can never commit adultery....

scratchme1010

This thread reminds me of this:

Here

15

When is a JW considered "awake"...?

by biblexaminer in

1) they begin question .

2) they stop field service.

3) they stop going to kingdumb hall.

scratchme1010

I consider myself quite awake from their nonsense, and I've never done any of these:

4) They write letter stating they aren't a JW

5) They burn their watchtower literature (I used a WT once when I ran out of toilet paper, does that count?)

6) They burn their bible

7) They burn their neighbor's bible

8) They begin to sleep with strangers (did that while I was still in :-)

9) They buy a gun (never seen the need for one)

10) They use the gun to commit a crime (I've violated all sodomy laws, but I never needed a gun for it)

I guess the beginning of the awakening may be different for different people. Some people are still in and stay acting as if they are JWs because it's in their best interest to do so for their own reasons, and they are quite awake.

22

I have a theory related to the cult spectrum

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

translating jwfacts into spanish has made me critically analyze pretty much everything paul has written.

i would say paul is right 90%+ of the time.

some things are just things that are outdated, on other occasions, things are partially right and just need to be tweaked.anyhow... one of the articles is "where else would i go"?since i am an atheist, ideally, for me, the answer would be "become at least agnostic, if not atheist, and lead an evidence-based life".

scratchme1010

Check out the Worldwide Church of God... they were a BITE model cult, and now Grace International, from what I have read, isn't... but they went from non-mainstream to mainstream.

I may need a little more than just a person stating that this is no longer a cult. Furthermore, mainstream and "not a cult" are not synonyms.

Universal Definition
CULT - Any group which has a pyramid type authoritarian leadership structure with all teaching and guidance coming from the person/persons at the top. The group will claim to be the only way to God; Nirvana; Paradise; Ultimate Reality; Full Potential, Way to Happiness etc, and will use thought reform or mind control techniques to gain control and keep their members.
This definition covers cults within all major world religions, along with those cults which have no OBVIOUS religious base such as commercial, educational and psychological cults. Others may define these a little differently, but this is the simplest to work from.

I am no expert, but what I have seen is that professionals an researches in the subject of cults have several different definitions and classifications of cults. In fact, some don't even use the word cult to define an organization, as it may be misleading based on the several definitions.

Here are a few definitions:

"worship; reverential homage rendered to a divine being or beings...a particular form or system of religious worship; especially in reference to its external rites and ceremonies...devotion or homage to a particular person or thing.“ – Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary (1971)

"A religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious...
A system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator...
Great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work...b. a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion." - Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Edition (1994)

Then there's a "millennial" definition of a cult:

"A group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it, etc.), designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders, to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community. – West & Langone, 1986, pp. 119-120"

That definition applies only to what they call a "totalistic type" of cult, which is one of the several ways in which some experts classify cults, such as:

cults as dangerous, authoritarian
cults as culturally innovative or transcultural
cults as loosely structured protoreligions

There's a 4th form of classification of cults, based on Stark and Bainbridge’s taxonomy (1985) that distinguishes:

audience cults
client cults
cult movements

As I mentioned, it's not that cut and dry, what is clear in any of the descriptions, classifications or definitions, is that all those groups have several typical characteristics, many of which some are:

unethical influence
conversion
manipulation
mind-control - brainwashing
exploitation
charismatic group
new religious movement – alternative movement
psychological abuse
harm

That's the school where I come from, so my question is how does one can say that some organization became/was a cult and now isn't? How is that measured, what makes them a cult before and not a cult now?

11

You're not going to believe what I'm about to tell you....

by kpop in

jw
friends

nicely sums up most of the population.... https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe.

scratchme1010

Great post. I enjoyed very much.

22

I have a theory related to the cult spectrum

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

translating jwfacts into spanish has made me critically analyze pretty much everything paul has written.

i would say paul is right 90%+ of the time.

some things are just things that are outdated, on other occasions, things are partially right and just need to be tweaked.anyhow... one of the articles is "where else would i go"?since i am an atheist, ideally, for me, the answer would be "become at least agnostic, if not atheist, and lead an evidence-based life".

scratchme1010

Cults become cults in the BITE model sense because they are different and "persecuted". Once they become mainstream, they let go of the cult characteristics and become a healthy church, but at the cost of losing their "non-mainstream" views.

I'm not 100% sure that it's that cut and dry. First, I haven't heard of any high demand, controlling group, such as cults, that has made changes to become a mainstream religion. In fact, one of the characteristics of a cult is precisely that they choose to diverge from mainstream religion, and their "out of the ordinary" teachings attract people, which becomes their signature.

As an example, I don't think that the word "disfellowship" is going away any time soon from the WT, just like the word "defoo" will be retired from another cult I know uses that word.

Cults don't "lose their mainstream views", their non-traditional views is one of their core characteristics. Some organizations evolve into cults, but the opposite hasn't happened (as far as I know).

Could you think of any christian denomination that teaches non-mainstream stuff and is NOT a cult in the BITE model sense?

My sister in law and her husband are involved in this Christian organization that has had some non-traditional events, one of them in a theater. It was explained to me second hand, but as I understand, they asked people to take their shoes off and leave them in the theater and return to their homes barefoot. Not sure what the point of that was.

Non-traditional practices do exist in mainstream religious organizations. As per the BITE model, the difference is not the B, I,T or E words, but their modifiers which is one word, control. Many things can be done in the spirit of providing healthy spirituality to people, for as long as there's no intention of controlling, as you state, I see no reason to see them as unnecessary.

And of course, please keep in mind that all the things in the BITE model occur to people once in the cult. People don't submit themselves to control voluntarily (I mean, under normal conditions). People always neglect to consider why many people actually join those groups, which have everything to do with what they feel, not with what they know. When they join they know nothing, but feel something.

Also, I'd like to ask, if I may:

Christadelphians? Cult.
JW's? Cult
Mormons? Cult
SDA's? If they are strict, Cult.
Bible Students? Cult
Iglesia Ni Cristo? Cult
Two-By-Two's? Cult
Christian Scientists? Cult
Worldwide Church of God? Cult

Where does that come from?