Posts by scratchme1010

16

COs are like parrots, can’t handle questions of dynamic nature!

by anointed1 in

when i was a zealous publisher, once i took co for a return visit to learn how he handles difficult questions.

house holder brought the subject of joshua secretly sending two spies to spy out the city of jericho before its planned conquest, and asked: “wasn’t joshua acting in a human way here?

why would joshua need to send spies if he was the commander-in-chief appointed by god the almighty?”.

scratchme1010

We were conditioned to believe that those men were very wise, great role models and knowledgeable of everything JW. I only met one who I felt wasn't a big disappointment. The rest were all quacks.

32

Beardless Jesus. Why?

by UnshackleTheChains in

beardless jesus in watchtower publications between 1930s and 1960s.

a simple detail 'deliberately' left out.

the question is why?.

scratchme1010

The question is WHY?

Fashion statement?

MY guess is that they attack men who grow a beard, so maybe they are trying to show Jesus without one in accordance to the nonsense they like going after.

58

baptised nearly 51 years

by Phoebe in

jw
friends

been reading this site for awhile now.

i have had a long and often tragic life as a jw.

my story is so long because i'm pretty old :) i feel sad i've been locked in fear and guilt for my entire life.

scratchme1010

I've decided I can't continue to serve Jehovah purely out of fear. Even today's WT had an element of fear in it. There is no one to talk to withing the organization. I briefly mentioned a few of my concerns to my BF and she went crazy accusing me of going on sites etc. My husband, once a RP and MS is truly awake to everything. I was born in so it's way harder for me. I just don't want to get it wrong. So, I'll stop rambling. Just thank you guys. x

Very nice to meet you and I'm glad that you posted. I'm sure there may have been some doubts and uneasiness by doing this. I'm glad you did.

There are no easy answers. Your well being as an individual and your spiritual well being are the things that matter most. I don't think it's necessary to get into read this, learn that, look for this, examine that. In your post you clearly mention that you have been doing that anyway.

I'm glad that you are sharing something that many current and former JWs don;t have the opportunity to share about. That is, what you feel. People stay for a long time in places like their congregations for a long time for many reasons, including the ones you give.

I hope that you get to feel better and more human than just blindly following what you are told in your congregation. No need to explain why you stayed for a long time. The time in that organization doesn't matter as much as the influence in instills in people and the fact that you have your time to make decisions right. Some people just leave without really preparing for it. It's harder when time passes and your life passes and you feel more invested in it. None of it really matters. I'm glad that you're here now.

61

Is this a normal JW practice? Warning, this will be a bit graphic.

by Sequoia in

this post may be disturbing and i apologize, but i'm just trying to find out if this is a practice the jw teaches.

i was taken advantage of by a guy claiming to be a jw preacher.

he took me to his house supposedly so i could give his daughter piano lessons, and then he basically forced himself on me while telling me he was in love with me and wanted to marry me.

scratchme1010

Does this org actually teach people to do this, or have I just run into a really bad guy who also happens to be a JW?

I fail to read in your post that the guy has been arrested and is in jail. In your post you seem more concerned about the reputation of the WT organization than you being rape. That doesn't sound right to me. Please have that em effer arrested and you go get help.

US and General Crisis Centers and Hotlines:
RAINN - 1-800-656-HOPE:
If you live in the US, calling this number will connect you to a rape crisis center near you. It is free and confidential. Find rape crisis centers in your area.

4

Prayer vs. Meditation

by schnell in

jw
friends

whenever i prayed, it was always done consciously and ostensibly to another person -- a higher, spirit person -- called jehovah.

the subject was always something about me, even if it was for someone else.

if i prayed to thank jehovah for my meal, it was about me.

scratchme1010

When I meditate, I usually close my eyes. Sometimes I open them. I focus on breathing. I count my breaths. In a few minutes, my mind and body have calmed down. I feel a smile. I feel my place in the space where I'm sitting, and I notice things. I at first try to squelch all my thoughts, and focus on breathing. At some point though, I let them off the leash and my thoughts go absolutely wild. Then I bring them back in and focus some more. All of this is ultimately self-centered, except there is no guilt to that connotation whatever. It's mindfulness, really. Indeed, I am quite happy to be myself.

Meditation has suited me much better for decades now. I don't have a formal way or time for me to do it, but it works well. That's how I found my true spirituality, that is, without any ritual, no church/KH, no Bible, no one telling me what to say or how to say it, and in private all by myself in a very intimate setting in connection with my spirituality.

A final note: If I am in a group that insists on having a prayer before a meal, I have noticed that I survive the night perfectly in tact no matter what it is I'm thinking of during the obligatory prayer. No lightning, no leprosy. Hilarious.

I have participated in other people's praying before a meal out of respect for them. I can't care less about the meaning of it or what it's supposed to do, and like you, my meal has remained as great (or not so when it's not) regardless of what I do or think during/about the prayer.

The beauty of meditation is the intimate quality to it. It's just you and whatever/whoever you feel is your spiritual guiding force. No need to explain it, no need to follow rules, and it's very peaceful.

6

Let's compare, shall we

by LevelThePlayingField in

if you did a news search on google news today, jan. 15, 2017 what would you find it you typed in "jehovah's witnesses"?

i did an analysis of news searches under the main christian religions in the us and this is what i found:.

if you click on google news and type in the following religions' names and then look at the news headline for each of the and description with out actually clicking on it, but just just what google provides for a clip or snipet of information and then click on the next page and the next page until you got to 5 pages down in the news for today (jan 15, 2017) this is what i found for those news mentioning anything about "sexual abuse" of any kind per religion.. mormon 0 and latter day saints 0. catholic 1. presbyterian 0. lutheran 0. methodist 0. episcopal 0. protestant 0. evangelical 0. unitarian 0. jehovah's witnesses 6. pretty interesting that the jw's get more about sexual abuse than any other major religion in the us isn't it?

scratchme1010

Pretty interesting that the JW's get more about sexual abuse than any other major religion in the US isn't it? Gee I wonder why that is. Feel free to type in the name of any religion into the Google news search box at any time and see what results you get over the next 5 pages. How many mention "sexual abuse" or the equivalent of that in the news search. The JW's top the list.

Interesting, but if you'd like to be more accurate, make sure that you factor location, previous searches and your Google search settings. All those things affect your results.

123

Why do some Jehovah's Witnesses choose to be atheist or agnostic?

by Cassaruby in

jw
friends

"traumatic as the initial transition may be, it can lead to the development of a truly personal relationship with these two greatest friends [the father and the son] .

.. "whatever sense of 'belonging' that membership in some religious system may create, it can never compare with the power and beauty and strengthening benefit of the intimate personal relationship the scripture presents .

from reading joseph campbell i've come to understand that there are functions to religion or mythology.

scratchme1010

I made my choice because of the benefits of having faith. Being saved would be nice. And I think it'd be very righteous to glorify God. But I'm not quite there.

So then, according to the same WT bullshit that you claim you buy and don't buy at the same time, you are in there for selfish reasons, not to serve their Jehovah as they claim that every single person should. Furhtermore, there are plenty of places and events out there that can give you the same benefits or better, without having to be a hypocrit and go to their place for different reasons than the ones they establish.

Whoa didn't mean to be condescending.

You did. Still coming across like that.

What reason did you choose the path you chose after leaving?

That questions still feels condescending, but mostly uninformed. However, seems like this is going to be the best we can get from you. I was born in that organization. Couldn't care less about it pretty much since the day I was born. At some point decided to give it a fair chance and didn't like it. Hated the people, hated the believes, hated averything about being a JW. Sent them to the carajo once I got fed up with their stupid rules, ridiculous belives and above everithing their hypocrisy. My main reasons were not believes or doctrine related. I just don't give an eff about them.

I'm baffled. If someone came to the conclusion that Atheism is the most reasonable path to take, then how can one say they are an atheist without choosing to be one based on their conclusion.

As a christian bible-induced thinking person you are judging and seeing atheism through their glass. For as long as you keep looking at it in a comparative form with christianism, with the typical elements in the way of viewing things (black and white thinking, I'm right you're wrong, there's only one truth, and blah blah blah), you will remain baffled.

If someone asks me why I like chocolate or vanilla no matter what reasoning I use to pick it is ultimately because I simply chose one of the options despite how I justify myself.

Perfect example of christian simplistic way of thinking.

Is it possible that you did choose chocolate over vanilla and it's as simple as that?

No (see above).

Does it even matter if something is true or false when as humans we can't stop making meaning either way?

Yes it matters, especially if you have people making life and death decisions over it.

I really value JWs use of evidence as I value Campbell's use of poetic metaphors. When it comes to working with a book such as the Bible I wouldn't be able to work with any particular church without scriptural evidence.

I value use of reliable, proper, unbiased evidence that doesn't push an agenda to exploit other people. If you value the JWs evidence, you need to look at what you are valuing. Google "faulty logic".

When taken to extremes reason serves us better than faith. In it's extreme faith is intolerant. People can't stop making meaning so outside of extremes faith serves man very well.

Delusion seems like an extreme word in this conversation

And your point is... again, condescending.

I define faith as an emotional belief in the mystery that is involved in experiencing life.

Then, again, you're in the JWs for the wrong reasons. Keep coming here, it will help you leave.

I mean the emotion deep in my consciousness that creates a sense of awe in the universe that can only be expressed poetically. Faith leads me to the word God. God being the closest word to express that awe

Now, please explain to me what does any of that definition has to do with the ridiculous stupid, biased, unreasonable and just downright creepy rules that christianity imposes on people.

No it doesn't matter to me whether those things actually happened.

Again, then you are being a hypocrite in the JW because they expect you to care and believe what they tell you. Furthermore, you go there pretending to be one of them when you're not. What's the point of doing that?

I think we choose our beliefs. It's the only real point I'm actually arguing instead of discussing.

I don't see anyone refuting that. You didn't use the word "believes"; you used the expression "choosing your own path". That's different. Don't come now changing what you said.

You don't need evidence to make a choice, and using evidence naturally leads to a choice.

I think people are afraid of being accountable for their choices. It can be a scary word.

And you are trying to apply that to atheists? Look around in your congregation.

You're figuring out what to do next and evidence leads you to reason. Naturally, would you choose to follow reason compared to the the other options available?

That is so naive! You really thing that leaving a cult is about learning something new and start believing something else? Seems like you like stating what you like to say, but want to remain in your own little bubble. If you decide to step aside from your own little bubble, please search for information about cults. On the other hand, and on a second thought, if you are here you may have the chance (or maybe subconsciously you are giving yourself that chance) of learning more about cognitive dissonance, negative influence, and high-demand, controlling groups, also known as cults. That may shed some light about how many more things are impacted in people's lives, other than just choosing a believe over another.

The only evidence for the Bible is contained within the covers of the book itself. Outside of the book it's a different animal

Actually, not really. There is plenty of historical, archaeological and scientific evidence of certain people, places and events in the bible existing. That certainly doesn't make it "the word of God", nor excuses the way people use it to hate and oppress others, but yes, there's plenty of evidence supporting parts of the bible making reference to people, places and events.

Alright new question. What denomination of Christendom are ex-jdubs most likely to join?

Again, you are still viewing this from your own perspective, which is a little limiting. Try to see the world outside as not something "people join".

I recommend if anyone is interested going to the library and checking out Joseph Campbell's the power of myth. Not just because it helped me to appreciate mythology but because it's also an utterly fascinating perspective on what's going on in all religions.

Thank you. I read the book and wasn't too impressed with it, but good read. May I recommend:

"When God becomes a Drug" by Leo Booth

"Recovery from Cults: Help for Victims of Psychological and Spiritual Abuse", by Michael Langone

"Coping with Cult Involvement: A Handbook for Families and Friends", by Livia Bardin

"Starting Out in Mainstream America", by Livia Bardin

"Bounded Choice: True Believers and Charismatic Cults", by Janja Lalich

"Born and Raised in a Sect: You are Not Alone", by Lois Kendall

"Betrayal of the Spirit", by Nori J. Muster

They are great read and can help you understand where some of us come from.

5

Not the "Faithful & Discreet Slave" after all!

by Nicholaus Kopernicus in

"1 god, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a son, whom he appointed heir of all things..." hebrews 1:1,2. the wtbts/gbojw avoid reference to this scripture.

could be due to it undermining their claim to fds status?

maybe a good reasoning point with jw's?

scratchme1010

Maybe a good reasoning point with JW's?

If all you want to do is trying to reason with them, yes.

27

"Don't listen to apostates!!"

by Schnufti in

next time a jw says that to me, i will ask him to read the following from "what does the bible really teach":.

watchtower itself uses this illustration.

so why is it that they throw apostates out of the congregation?.

scratchme1010

It never is about making sense of what they say. They are more than happy to say anything and everything that makes their point and keep their people believing their crap.

My guess is that you can show them how their own words are misused and how they make no sense, and how they can be used completely against them, but in the end they are not going to respect people who leave. That is because they have to protect and reinforce their bad decision of remaining JWs.

13

Poopie has recieved new light from latest clam book

by poopie in

jw
friends

on the subject welcome others the new light is i can now have limited association with df and da ones at the kingdom hall not strictl avoidance..

scratchme1010

I can now have limited association with df and da ones at the kingdom hall not strictl avoidance.

It's so sad that you are using the helping verb "can". I feel for you.