Posts by tergiversator

29

Things That NEVER Made Sense To Me:

by Englishman in

jw
friends

even when i was a dyed in the wool jw, there were a few things that never made any sense whatsoever to me.

like most dubs, i glossed over them, here's my top 3 doubts during my period of dubdom, doubts that were never resolved:.

"all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching".

tergiversator

One thing I never understood was the motivation for the preaching work. I mean, I knew we were helping people to learn the "truth" so that they could survive Armageddon, but really, why on earth would anyone think it fair to judge someone based on being woken up on Saturday morning to fifteen seconds of "HiMyNameIsJillPublisherIHaveTheLatestAwakeOnTheRealHopeForTheRainforestsOhNotInterestedOkMaybeSomeOtherTimeBye"

Really.

It also seemed silly, thinking about, say, China. I remember one day out in service in the early 90's with a bunch of pioneers sisters (pre-generation change) speculating about how close the end might be. Someone relayed a CO's comment that the "good news being preached throughout the world for a witness to all nations" didn't mean that it couldn't come until after China and the middle East had been thoroughly covered (which, if so, gave us a good couple of decades at least).

Rather, "all the nations" was "symbolic", and if people in China didn't hear the good news they would die at Armageddon for not knowing better. But, get this, they would then be resurrected in the new system because "Jehovah would know their heart condition". That seemed very inefficient, to me; kill a billion people, then resurrect them again. Not to mention a little hard on the individuals involved, all for an accident of geography.

I also didn't understand (being the individualstic uppity girl that I was ) why women needed to be "in subjection". The argument about "can't have two captains of the same ship" never flew very far, and anyways, even if it were true, who said the guy was always the most qualified?

And Had Enough, I agree, one of the reasons I held on mentally for all those years was because it seemed like, whatever other faults there were, the chronologies and prophecies seemed to make sense and indicate that there might still be something to it. Reading Franz's book, looking online, and generally taking a step back and re-examining everything from the outside convinced me that there wasn't anything at all.

-T.

3

would you like to email wt??

by messenger in

jw
friends

it is posted on the new blood video:.

[email protected].

enjoy!

tergiversator

New blood video? What's it about? Is it intended for the witness populace as a whole, or is it a sort of "specialty" video, called something like "What to do in a faith-challenging medical situation"?

Having no television when I was in, I kinda fell behind on the video situation a long time ago... the last one I remember was "Purple Triangles". My best friend mentioned something about a Young People Ask - How can I make friends? video, but that was after I left. Sounds pretty scary, too.

-T.

13

Pleased to meet you....hope you guess my name

by hybridous in

jw
friends

hello, message board.. i've been a-lurkin here for a while.

i introduced myself to the old hourglass board right before it went down - didn't have much of a chance to say anything.. but i would like to express how much i appreciate all the contributions you all make to the discussions that go on here.

if you only knew how much your words and stories have been helping me to resolve my issues..... i guess that my hope is that i can, in some small way, relate my experiences and thoughts, and maybe that will also help someone else along the way.. once again, thank you for being here (& there).

tergiversator

Hello, hybridous,

Can't say I recognize your name, but then, I'm very bad with names. Anyhow, welcome to the board.

-T.

12

Blanket Judgements and other JW phenomenon

by LDH in

jw
friends

my mind was wandering last night and i started thinking about the way 'faithful' jws issue blanket condemnations.

i wondered if it's a personality thing that is just reinforced by the jw mantra of "we're always right and we're the only true religion etc.

" or if it's a jw or other fundy religious phenomenon.. here's two examples, feel free to add your own.. when i was about 17, i started visiting nyc regularly, and attending different congregations (wow!

tergiversator

Heh. My brother was passed up for MS because he always looked "rumpled". Never mind that our congregations had a shortage of young brothers...

-T

14

Moments That Make Your Skin Crawl.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

i thought that it might be fun to have a "my most embarrassing moment" competition.

if the thread takes off, first, second and third places will receive a prize guaranteed to be of no monetary value whatsoever!

so, i've had to give a lot of thought to exactly what was my most embarrassing moment as a jw.. was it as a 12 year old child travelling on the london underground, whilst being forced to wear a label that shouted in lurid purple: "gods kingdom rules!

tergiversator

The beginning of my outcast days in school came in third grade. Our school district had a program for gifted kids to go to another school for one day a week and do extra "enrichment" activities... anyway, we were working on building bridges out of toothpicks and glue when the subject of religion came up somehow. My best friend from long before I had become a witness (and who I naturally drifted away from) was there, along with three or four other mutual "friends". Somehow, I got into an argument with one of them about hell.

I, being the good witness, explained that she (along with everyone else) was going to go to hell.

For some reason, she got upset. She was very unreasonable, not letting me explain that hell was just "the common grave" (whateve that was), and everyone turned on me, former best friend included. Marcy later told her mom on me, who told my teacher, who told my mom. (Ironically, I didn't get in trouble, because my mom thought that telling someone they were going to hell "didn't sound like her daughter". And my mom is NOT the sort of person to stand up for her kids no matter what.) That was, however, the last time I was tolerated amid that particular clique, and I grew to dread having to go to GATE class ever week because I knew I had no friends there.

Then there was the inaguaral prayer...

In fifth grade, my teacher, who was very patriotic but (I thought) tolerant of witness beliefs, brought all of us to the school cafeteria to watch Bill Clinton's inaugaral ceremony on the television there.

I managed to sit toward the back, and everything was going well... until some religious guy got up and started to say a PRAYER for the president. My teacher motioned for everyone to stand up, out of respect, and I, of course, remained seated.

There was another witness in my class that year, however; it was the first year that had ever happened. He was even an elder's son. Robby, however, stood up for the prayer, kind of heisitantly, than looked back at me and guiltily sat down, only to get up again when the teacher confronted him. So much for moral support.

Then my teacher came over to me, demanding why I was staying so "defiantly" seated. She was shaking with rage, and I was so taken aback that I couldn't get out a coherent reason why I thought standing for for a prayer at a political event was so evil. She pointed to Robby (now standing again) and demanded the obvious explanation. And she wouldn't let me explain later, like I wanted to, when everyone in the auditorium wasn't looking at us, amused that I was getting in trouble for once (I was one of those sorts of kids).

I don't remember how I got out of there, but it took a conference with my mother before she calmed down. I, of course, took all of the wrong lessons of that incident.

-Tergiversator

16

Standing for flag/anthem prohibition; new light...

by Skimmer in

jw
friends

in recent years we have seen wtbts "new light" that has eliminated the prohibitions on alternative service, voting, and (perhaps) carrying certain types of identity cards.. given that the practices of standing for the national flag or standing during the playing of the national anthem have been condemned in print in the same paragraphs as the above mentioned new light, isn't it about time that standing for the flag/anthem will become a conscience matter?.

i would hope so, because not standing for these occasions is more than a little embarrassing for younger people still in school.

standing is merely a sign of respect and honor, and this is clearly allowed by scripture.

tergiversator

Hello, ofcmad, and welcome.

I also always stood for the flag salute, and I could swear that's what the blue school brochure says to do. Standing for the national anthem, of course, was out.

I guess this is just one of those things that is set in stone... but different stone, depending on where and when you live. Let's hear it for unity.

12

What if they did something useful?

by tergiversator in

jw
friends

i posted this in response to a thread by nojw86 on h2o and thought i'd see what people here thought about it.... what if the witnesses did something useful for a change?.

just think what they could accomplish, if all the effort spent writing about antitypical fulfilments of obscure psalms was spent writing magazines to educate people about, say, health and sanitation.

if, instead of full-color books on dubious details of daniel's prophecies, they printed full-color textbooks on real history, science, literature, mathematics, etc., for distribution to areas where books aren't so easy to come by.

tergiversator

Hee, hee, LDH, reading your post conjured up the most amusing image of how they could bill it: "Brooklyn Soup Kitchen - a joint cooperative venture by Jehovah's organization and Satan's."

So many responses... guess this touched a nerve for a lot of people. It's just so sad, thinking about all of those people we know who have worked their hearts out for nothing. Heck, that's what we did, too, before we wised up.

I don't really think anything's going to change, but it would be nice, for all of our friends and family who are still in, if they could feel like they were really getting something accomplished instead of the endless stream of not at homes and busy people who couldn't care less about the weird people standing on their doorsteps with their magazines, day in, day out... trying to console themselves with thinking, "Guess all the sheep-like ones have already been found, the end must be real soon now..."

Oh well. Thanks for all your comments, folks. There really isn't a good way to have the organization change into something worthwhile without hurting and disillusioning a whole lot of people - even if most of them would be better off afterwards. It's got to beat, uh, clearing landmines (thanks, hippikon).

-T.

10

Freudian householder

by anglise in

jw
friends

ok hands up.

who really enjoyed playing the part of the irate or definately unbelieving householder on the school or demo items?.

i know i really did and its only recently struck me that maybe for years deep down these where my true feelings shouting to get out.. shame i didnt listen to them sooner.

tergiversator

Duncan! You're my personal hero... that's such a great line. I bet most of the people applauding were so overjoyed to hear something that actually sounded like what a real live person might say.

Most demos around here were duller than dirt. The ones that weren't generally involved some creativity on the part of the householder, hamming it up, of course they were only being theatrical when they savagely mocked the loyal witness party... It was kind of amusing once or twice when the loyal person looked a little annoyed at the "worldly" person for being too difficult to convince.

-Tergiversator, whose use of school ravioli as an illustration in a talk about sin was nowhere in Duncan's league

12

What if they did something useful?

by tergiversator in

jw
friends

i posted this in response to a thread by nojw86 on h2o and thought i'd see what people here thought about it.... what if the witnesses did something useful for a change?.

just think what they could accomplish, if all the effort spent writing about antitypical fulfilments of obscure psalms was spent writing magazines to educate people about, say, health and sanitation.

if, instead of full-color books on dubious details of daniel's prophecies, they printed full-color textbooks on real history, science, literature, mathematics, etc., for distribution to areas where books aren't so easy to come by.

tergiversator

I posted this in response to a thread by Nojw86 on H2O and thought I'd see what people here thought about it...

What if the witnesses did something useful for a change?

Just think what they could accomplish, if all the effort spent writing about antitypical fulfilments of obscure psalms was spent writing magazines to educate people about, say, health and sanitation.

If, instead of full-color books on dubious details of Daniel's prophecies, they printed full-color textbooks on real history, science, literature, mathematics, etc., for distribution to areas where books aren't so easy to come by.

If the hordes of witnesses who descend upon suburbia every Saturday morning between 9 am and donut break were instead sent to volunteer in soup kitchens and old folks homes and after-school programs for inner city kids and beach cleanups.

If the expertise used for quick build kingdom halls was put to work building decent homes for people (along the lines of Habitat for Humanity) who needed them. And on, and on.

The witnesses spend over a billion hours each year on bringing false hopes to peoples doors. What if they were to spend that time on bringing real hope instead? I bet there'd be a lot less depressed witnesses on Prozac, for one.

-Tergiversator, of the Hope Springs Eternal class

56

Urban Legends!

by ISP in

jw
friends

its amazing the extent these circulate in the wt world.

i am not so sure, but it develops a powerful folklore amongst jws....often with a moral at the end!

typically these circulate as experiences given in talks and are then adopted by the masses as truth.. for example, anyone hear the ul about the married couple where the wife had to have a routine blood check.

tergiversator

That's really low, COMF. Ugh. I think I feel ill now, thinking about what high esteem I used to hold the GB, bethelites, travelling overseers, etc., in. I mean, it's one thing to repeat the story as an urban legend... quite another to try and make it real. Blech.