Posts by Linda14

11

Salvation: Faith alone OR works?

by JW Answers in

jehovah's witnesses run to the book of james staying that faith without works is dead.

they completely ignore the teachings of paul and hold onto james.

.. it would appear that there is a contradiction between james' teaching and paul's teaching, yet the bible tells us to rightly divide the word of truth.

Linda14

Faith basically. Works is essential as well but what gives you salvation is not that work, but faith.

Think of that criminal at the stake/cross. What saved him? Works? No, just faith in Jesus.

Think about those whom Jesus told when he was on earth, "your sins have been forgiven". That means had the kingdom come that day, they will be saved. What saved them, works? No. Faith.

What about many persons that were baptized those days, they didn't live many years studying What Does The Bible Really Teach book and then having their lives policed to determine if they are repentant before they were baptized. All they needed was to believe in Jesus and state that they have repented, they were baptized. In the case of Cornelius and those invited for the occasion, they received the holy spirit immediately. Don't imagine that those were spotless.

Works are essential, but nothing can deter God from declaring any sinner righteous and beckon him to the kingdom through the ransom sacrifice of Jesus. Nothing. So it's not good to think that one can earn salvation which works seem to emphasize. Neither would it be fine to deliberately become wicked in words and action and think that just having faith in Jesus will cover you. No.

7

Can a Church Lie Intentionally? Yes.

by peacefulpete in

a very recent case i mentioned briefly in another thread might be of interest to many here.

a mormon found through the internet that her church leadership had deliberately misled members regarding the origin of the book of mormon and engaged in historical revisioning.

she sued for damages for the lifelong tithing she had been deceived into giving.

Linda14

The JW GB know they lie many times, but they think that if they do with the permission of the greater number of GB, that the public or their members are not entitled to that truth. So it's not a lie, but a restriction of what you're not entitled to.

For example, if the GB vote on a policy or a doctrine, and greater number says that Policy A or Doctrine A should be adopted, the other members of the GB and even all JWs would speak that doctrine or policy as the ONLY truth revealed by Jehovah. That doctrine would be accorded all the zeal and implementation given to any teaching. Even if you re a GB member who disagrees with the doctrine, you will still call it truth and speak about it as if there is no other truth available. And even judge other churches that teach a different doctrine.

There is a culture of lies embedded in the doctrines of JWs, and it is successful because if you ever tell something different in public, you will be disfellowshiped as an apostate. That coerces you into accepting falsehood. You can only pray that tomorrow you have a greater vote in the GB to overturn the earlier doctrine.

The witnesses have a different definition of lies. So yes, JW are a good example of organization that intentionally tell lies.

14

How many doubt the GB official teaching about who will survive

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many have doubts about the gb teaching that only baptised jws would survive the big a?

even then they still only say you may make it as with unbaptised kids of jdubs.

i think most people physically in don’t agree with the gb on this and are hoping jehovah would let other good people into the new world even if they are not baptised jws.

Linda14

The basic requirement for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. God doesn't check if you're 100% in your doctrinal understanding before you get saved.

20

How do JWs know that millions who were martyred as Christians before the 20th century did not have the heavenly hope?

by Vanderhoven7 in

as i understand it, jehovah’s witnesses believe less than 145,000 faithful christians existed prior to the twentieth century.

the other sheep christians did not start forming until after 1914. that means jehovah’s witnesses view millions martyred for their faith in christ prior to the 20th century as merely professed christians.. the question is…how do witnesses know that those millions who perished for their faith in christ were not christians at all?.

Linda14

That teaching obviously doesn't make any sense. This is one of the many teachings they will one day discard.

One of the major problem WT has is this 1914 nonsense. There are lots of doctrine pinned to that date. Until they remove that nonsense called 1914, they won't breath a fresh air.

Imagine, for over one thousand years now, God has not been able to get 144000 persons, but in relatively short time, the number of great crowd has numbered into the millions. Yet the standard of righteousness is still the same. Even the number that were available during the first century alone would probably get close to that 144000.

The 144000 likely refers to all true christians that would be saved during Armageddon. It is a symbol for all true christians during that time.

With time, the unreasonableness of that doctrine would gain greater vote among the GB members and they will change it. Don't be surprised that not all GB members or even those in HQ believe that teaching. JWs encourage hypocrisy, and love for organization more than love for bible truth. It's a sad reality.

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

Linda14

Yes. The basic requirement for salvation is faith is Jesus. That is basic. God doesn't expect those He uses to understand all his word for He to save them. No. If that were so, no single soul from WT will be saved because from day one, they had always had false doctrine, even now.

GB keep making that claim, "correct doctrine = salvation." But that's not true, even John the Baptist didn't understand all the scripture had to say about his work nor that of Christ.

Jesus Christ told the criminal at his right, that he will be with him in paradise. Why? His works, better understanding of bible? No. Just faith in Jesus.

Jesus also declared some sinners in his time as forgiving. It means that if God kingdom were to come at that time, those persons he forgave their sins will enter as righteous persons.

So since Jesus is the judge, you can't know whom he will allow into the kingdom. The Pharisees were so much attached to rules rules rules like the GB, shutting the kingdom of heaven, and disfellowshiping people because of their rules.

Even making complicated requirements for baptism. I mean, seriously? Did Jesus require long hours of study before people were baptized? I bet you that no army officer would ever be baptized today, but Cornelius was a high ranking military officer who got baptized. No need for days or months of return visits and bible study. what about the Jailer? And after the baptism, he didn't need hours of brainwashing, to wash off teachings of Judaism. Like WT would want to wash off Christendom teachings, some of which are even correct. Too over righteous to a fault. And God never even tell any of them divinely, that he has appointed them. I wonder how the Org would have been had they received a seconds of supernatural appearance!

No matter how bad Catholic or Eastern Orthodox had been, you do not have any right to establish your own church unless you were told divinely to do so (assuming they were the remaining link to the first church). You can choose to be bible students to study and learn God's word, but do not establish another religion. If God is tired, He will divinely appoint you. Then you have your authority. The Jews were very bad, but God didn't reject them. If any had formed another nation then, God won't approve it.

I mean, one need to be careful, and many churches are just like that. If one is tired, stay in your house, read your bible and practice it. Worship of God is in spirit and truth. Don't form a religion.

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

Linda14

Scholar

How does that 1914 make sense? Maybe you can help me with this questions.

Luke 21:

However, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains, let those in the midst of her leave, and let those in the countryside not enter into her, 22 because these are days for meting out justice in order that all the things written may be fulfilled. 23 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! For there will be great distress on the land and wrath against this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled"

From that context, how does Jerusalem come to represent seat of davidic line of rulers? Is the context not clearly referring to literal Jerusalem?

2. Who said that the seat of davidic rulership was vacant as at first century? Was Jesus not born a king through David line? Did Jesus not make a triumphant entry into Jerusalem as the king of the Jews? Did Nathanael, and even the Jewish rulers not place on his stake, "Jesus, king of the Jews"? (John 12:15,16; Isaiah 9;5,6) Zech 9:9 didn't present the matter as king designate. There king was coming into Jerusalem.

When declaration to lift the turban was made at Ezek 21:26, the bible didn't say " let seven times pass over it". That phrase was picked up from another prophecy meant for Nebuchadnezzar. That is entirely different context. That of Nebuchadnezzar fulfilled on Nebuchadnezzar. The bible book of Daniel told us the prophecy and stated how it was fulfilled. done and dusted.

Another problem is giving the seven times a different reckoning. On what basis actually? How does adding up different biblical context make any sense?

3. We go to revelation 12.

This chapter is used to prove how the kingdom was born. The child is said to be God's kingdom. A government.

First. Rev 12:17 says that the dragon went to persecute "the remaining ones" of the woman's offspring.

If the remaining ones of her offspring are persons, how then is the child the woman delivered not also refer to a person, but a government?

Secondly, verse 10 says "now have come to pass... the kingdom"

Did you notice that it was after the war in heaven that the point was made that it was now, that the kingdom came into being?

So the kingdom should come into being after Satan was ousted, not before.

We move to Rev 11.

The GB made a smart move there. Rev 11:15 is said to fulfill in 1914, but why is it that verse 18 was moved to the future? Russell and others who studied that Revelation knew that those verses should come together, that's why they thought that the kingdom will come in 1914. But since it didn't come, the verses were detached and given different times of fulfillment. That's wrong.

As for Parousia, it will take time to explain how my personal study gave a different understanding of that scripture. In a nutshell, Jesus answered the question of the sign of his presence at Matt 24:29,30- "the sign of the son of man". probably that heavenly phenomenon mentioned in verse 29 will be the physical evidence that the son of man has come. that's the sign requested at Matt 24:3. This his coming/presence would cover a period of resurrection and rapture before the actual destruction of the wicked.

All that Jesus said about nation fighting against nations, food shortages etc was not part of his presence. He was telling them what will occur before his presence. His presence is the end. The end is associated with when Jesus come for judgment and eventual destruction. In other words, conclusion of the system of things. That visible evidence will show that he is NEAR at the door. (Matt 24:33). Jesus didn't now say "the end is not yet" because that was the end. Don't let the word "end" make you think of immediate destruction.

To help you get the point, run a study on "presence", "manifest*", "Reve*lation", "trumpet", "conclusion", "end".

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

Linda14

My answer will be:

I' am yet to confirm who that Slave is. Remember the slave is appointed by Jesus to care for their assignment. This slave would be a class of divinely appointed Stewards IMO. They will be like the apostles. Just as Paul was appointed as an apostle to preach, form congregation and teach them, that's how i see the slave to be. In our day, this would be in form of modern General Overseers. As Paul was sent to form churches and teach them, these overseers are divinely appointed to form churches and teach them.

However, I don't know for sure who has received that assignment from churches available. I would welcome a miraculous evidence for such appointment.

The GB think they are that slave because they think that the way the first century christians functioned were through the direction of a GB in Jerusalem. They are wrong.

Jesus appointed the apostles who go and establish congregation all over the world. They cared for those group they formed, wrote to them, appointed overseers, answered their bible questions without seeking approval from any GB from Jerusalem. If you read 1cor very well you will understand Paul received a question from the Corinthians, and he answered it in that letter, giving them direction about worship, spiritual gifts, disfellowshiping, resurrection, marriage, singleness, etc He didn't request approval from Jerusalem to send his letter. He was a Steward appointed to feed those congregation he he was divinely appointed to form.

I feel any such Slave today would run similarly.

Secondly, bear in mind that attaching "Faithful and Discreet" to the word slave is tricky. Jesus would be the one who will declare them faithful and discreet when he comes. That phrase is not a title. Jesus used that phrase to show that they were faithful when they were appointed, but whether they will remain faithful is another thing. If the slave became sluggish or start to beat his fellow slave, he is no longer faithful and discreet. So it is wise to wait when Jesus comes to know if one was faithful and discreet.

38

Struggling to find a purpose

by My Name is of No Consequence in

i spent most of my life in the org.

we were taught that our purpose in life was to serve jehovah.

that never really made sense to me, but it was still a purpose to keep going.

Linda14

I never went through such a thought. I still believe the bible, God and I believe that one day His kingdom will come. I see wt as one among many who search for truth in God's word. They learn few truths, others learn others. No one has monopoly.

For me God exists and there are evidence that He does. I love God's word and wt can't destroy that love.

4

Extraordinary CLAIMS require extraordinary EVIDENCE

by BoogerMan in

some of christianity's denominations/tribes/clans claim that god almighty/christ jesus personally selected their leadership/clergy to represent heaven on earth.. question for jw's: what scriptural or divine proof convinced/convinces you that it was the org/governing body?.

self-proclaimed statements from literature does not qualify as proof..

Linda14

There is no such proof. I don't want to go with scriptural proof since that is based on individual interpretation.

I am still searching to know if there is any church out there with supernatural proof of God's approval.

21

The Great Tribulation

by Fisherman in

will the great tribulation hurt individuals more than what job, jesus, roman punishment, naz&i germany, hiroshima, jail, capital punishment, disease, pain, terror, horror, soldier in the battlefield or some terrible pain people experience this very moment?

how worse can pain and suffering get.

it is very common.

Linda14

ZaneM44

I have often thought of that before, that we are already in the GT. Although I didn't arrive at mine using the method you used. When you consider how the Jews went through their tribulation, we see that it was connected to the Roman subjugation of Jerusalem. They would need to flee, these caused hardship, tribulation.

It is possible that different war happening during this period that has brought untold hardship to many is part of the tribulation of our day. But we need not be dogmatic. We may be wrong.

Some of the reason for someone's conclusion may be based on 1914, 144000, Babylon the great, who the beast is etc. This understanding may have unanswered questions. For example, how do we know for sure that 1914 mark the start of the last days? How are we sure that Babylon the great is religion, even if it is religion, that it is all religions? Only 144000 going to heaven cannot be stated with certainty. The Gov Body's understanding is further affected by their understanding of Gog of Magog and the time of its appearance.

Even if we say that sufferings and wars are part of the GT, when can we start to count the exact time the GT began? Is it possible that in God's own eyes things have not become really bad to fit His own description of last days or GT? For example, are we sure that mark of the beast suffering is underway? Are we sure that Satan has been cast out of heaven yet?