Posts by tfs

83

God Changing Chosen Peoples

by eyes_opened in

jw
friends

my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.

he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.

jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?

tfs

Hi Larc,

If I may ask, are you one of Jehovah's witnesses? Just wondering. Thanks.

tfs

31

Too much spiritual food? Too much faith?

by ianao in

jw
friends

hello all.. this is a quote from an earlier conversation in the 1975 thread.. are you saying that the garden was weeded from those who put too much faith in "god's spirit-directed organization"?

did these people listen to too much of their "food at the proper time"?.

unfortunately, i never received a response from smartgirlpw, only insults of "boo boos" and truth hurting.. i would like to know if you personally (yes, i am asking for your opinion here, your pearls, or two cents) believe that you should not take very seriously what is stated in the wt publications, and if so, or even if not, please explain.. this was my original question before i lashed out at you for claiming we were having a pitty party and you began to lash out at me, java, pathofthorns, trevor, etc.

tfs

Hi Logical:

Theres a VERY interesting piece too, that hasnt yet been discussed on this forum (As far as I know - if it has been then ignore this paragraph). A piece that totally and utterly proves the date of 1914 WRONG, using nothing but the Bible.

Care to elaborate?

tfs

6

What The Presiding Overseer Sees

by tfs in

jw
friends

in my opinion, any one today, that takes the wts very seriously, their opinions, their thoughts, their recommendations, either in what they write, print or teach publicly from the platform, is usually a novice or a very new person, in his association with the organization itself.. if the wts were to cry "wolf," [the end is here, time is short] very few would listen.

this is because as abraham lincoln once said:.

"...you can't fool all of the people, all of the time.".

tfs

Hello to all:

In my opinion, any one today, that takes the WTS very seriously, their opinions, their thoughts, their recommendations, either in what they write, print or teach publicly from the platform, is usually a novice or a very new Person, in his association with the organization itself.

If the WTS were to cry "wolf," [the end is here, time is short] very few would listen.

This is because as Abraham Lincoln once said:

"...You can't fool all of the people, all of the time."

Though, it is unspoken, most veterans, experienced ones in the organization, really have their doubts about the WTS. Many, many doubt the WTS and what their teach, especially those with many years of service to the Organization (and not Jehovah). But they are in a dilemma, as to what they can do about it now, or where they can go. Where can they go?

So, for the time being, they opt to stay with organization. But their indepth, worshipful "loyalty" in many cases, is long gone.

However, with the new ones, it may be different. Perhaps, as some are on this board. Those that know very little about the WTS.

You see, its one thing to sit back, attend a few meetings, attend a few assemblies, and not get involved too much. Then, and only then, do we see things thru "rose-colored glasses." The WT and JWs, look okay, just as good as anyone else in religious circles. Maybe a little better.

Yes, the people are sooo happy, the buildings is sooo clean, they have sooo much "love" and true brotherhood among them. These are the same ones who sit on the "edge of their seats" at the assemblies and take copious notes on every talk and demo and drama given or presented.

Come back in about 3-5 years, and these same people are SLEEPING THRU THE WHOLE ASSEMBLY PROGRAM!

A fact. Why?

The more time, you spend with the WTS and JWs, the time, or the more "progress" you make within the organization, like "climbing the Corporate" ladder of success within the WTS, brings greater "awareness." When one begins to do this, his "eyes" will invariably, become "opened", he will begin to "lose his joy," of the service, and unavoidably, the genuine situation that does exist within the WTS now begins to become apparent to him. Everything he now does becomes a "duty." He feels forced to carry out his "worship" to God.

Another thing, when one gets involved deeply, involving himeslf in a lot of "personal study," devoting much of his time and energies, say if he free responsibilities and has the time, he may quickly become disillusioned about the organization. The things, the wrong things he will "learn" about the organization will do this for him.

Or, he could become a devoted "shepherd" or elder, pioneer or even a Presiding Overseer of a congregation. As a Presiding Overseer, or very involved elder, without a doubt, he will become "exposed" to the UNDERBELLY of the congregation and all of its "problems." Judicial problems. They are complex and many. Just as we are "learning" about the "flaws" in the WTS system to expose the "child molesters" in our midst. The WTS Judicial system serves only to "protect" the offender, and does nothing to protect the helpless "victim" in this case. A flawed judicial system, just like in the world, we were supposed to be walking away from. The same thing, maybe a little worse.

Also, in this position of service, he can become somewhat "aware" of even more serious problems revealed by close "contacts" that are even "higher up" on the "chain of command." Like Circuit Overseers, missionaries, Bethelites and such. They all have "stories" to tell. Horror stories.

As the Presiding Overseer of a congregation, if he makes it that "high" in the organization, or as a respected "elder" he will (and also his wife) begin to "see" or be "exposed" to more startling things, that are currently going in the organization. Things that are clearly "wrong." Wrong, teachings, wrong attitudes by some who think they are above others. They can "get away" things, that others cannot.

As the Presiding Overseer, he begins to hear slogans among the elders like:

"there are three (3) ways to do anything, the RIGHT way, the WRONG way, and the WT Society's way."

Or,

"I would rather be WRONG with the WTS than RIGHT by myself."

Or,

"We brothers (elders) do no thinking for the Society. No thinking at all. That's because the WTS, the mother organization does the thinking for us."

He will now also begin notice a even, worshipful attitude has been developed among some of those in the lead toward the organization itself, and some of its higher up ones. He will notice this. The general public, persons of interest, Bible Studies, or rank and file publishers are not exposed to such saying in general, but those "in the know," are all too familiar with the sayings and worshipfulness of those who express such words. He will eyewitness this.

Another thing can happen. Even if before he becomes an "elder." If one is very, very studious, like some are in the congregation, and they have the time and energy to "rove about in the true knowledge," and if they are really avid readers, they are going to come across certain "info," that simply does not "jive." They will begin to notice the many "changes" in thought over the years, the publications. The reversals, the WT has made, sometimes, complete reversals on serious issues.

Like, how to treat a "disfellowshiped" person, what is "porneia," as grounds for divorce, alternate service when faced with military draft. Serious issues that can affect the lives of people DRASTICALLY. The more you study, the more such things will be revealed to the avid reader and student of WTS literature. This is just a simple fact.

If he is "internet" exposed, has a computer and frequently surf the web, he may found out about the "change" in the Dedication questions. Now, how will he deal this change in the Dedication questions? Will he accept it, or reject it?

Or, if one has the money, as some do, he could begin to travel, travel overseas, and could make friends in other countries with JWs of foreign lands, the rank and file, but also missionaries and branch officials, and so on. Then, he notices things. He will begin to notice how things are handled in one country, completely different, in another country. Some things are tolerated in one country, that may not be in another country or area. In Some countries, Prayer is not a part of the spiritual meetings held at the kingdom hall. The WT has register as a "cultural" group in this particular country, and so to comply with this status, and arrangement, no prayer allowed. This is a fact.

But, the christian may ask, when visiting this country,

"how can we have a meeting, a religious meeting, a meeting that God approves of, WITHOUT prayer?

Does Jehovah and Jesus approve of such?

These are the types of things the more informed JWs begins to "see," with his own eyes.

Or, back to being an "elder," or even a experienced "Ministerial Servant." Even, in this "position," the "brother," can't help but notice that the more people in the organization he knows, the "baggage" or troubles and problems, they bring along with them. This is a fact. If he is say a Presiding Overseer, he is bound to be automatically "exposed," to more "people in the know," like those in "Special Services," like those in Bethel service, past or present (makes no difference), those in Special Pioneer Service, those in Missionary service (past or present), and certainly, any of the higher ranks like a ex-Circuit Overseer or present one, and the same with a District Overseer or two, or even higher, KM School instructors, Bethel Elders, Service Dept/Writing Dept brothers, and right on up to the loft G.B. positions of service, (if you get the privilege to get to know some of them), well, you get the picture.

All they talk of is "problems," problems and more problems within their "Circuit," "District," and so on. This is behind closed doors. If they take you into their "confidence," this is what you hear, over and over again. From them and their "wives."

Why?

These are the things the Presiding Overseer sees. He is no longer a new person, a novice. He can see things more clearly now. What does the organization now look like to him, now?

Does he shut his eyes, to what he has seen? Should he speak out, become more vocal about inconsistencies, disparities, and injustices he eyewitnesses or has come to know of?

How about the example of the Presiding Overseer in Paducka, Kentucky that used the television media to "expose" the WTS?

What should the Presiding Overseer do?

TFS

7

"Must You Believe It?" - Dec. 1st Wt ...

by tfs in

jw
friends

*****posted by "venice" from h2o*****.

would you believe it if someone told you that the december 1, 2000 issue of the watchtower gives its readers permission to reject the published conclusions of the organization if these should in any way contradict god, ignore his word, and violate common sense?

you decide.

tfs

*****posted by "Venice" from H2O*****

Hi all:

Would you believe it if someone told you that the December 1, 2000 issue of The Watchtower gives its readers permission to reject the published conclusions of the organization if these should in any way contradict God, ignore his Word, and violate common sense? You decide.

Read the following sizable extract from an article titled, “Must You Believe It?”:

---------------EXTRACT FROM article------------

The 12-year-old student was struggling to grasp the basic principle of algebra. His teacher presented the class with a seemingly straightforward algebraic calculation.
“Let x=y and let them both have the value of 1,” he began.
‘So far so good,’ thought the student.

After four lines of what looked like logical calculation, however, the teacher produced a startling result: “Therefore, 2=1!”
“Disprove that,” he challenged his bemused students.
With his very limited knowledge of algebra, the young student could not see how to disprove it. Every step in the calculation looked perfectly valid. Should he, then, believe this strange conclusion? After all, his teacher was much more versed in mathematics than he was. Of course he should not! ‘I do not have to disprove this,’ he thought to himself. ‘Common sense tells me that this is absurd.’ (Proverbs 14:15,18) He knew that neither his teacher nor any of his classmates were going to exchange two dollars for one!

In time the algebra student did find the flaw in the computation. Meanwhile, the experience taught him a valuable lesson. Even when someone with vastly superior knowledge presents a carefully crafted and seemingly unassailable argument, a listener need not believe a foolish conclusion simply because he cannot disprove it at the time. The student was actually following a very practical Bible principle found at 1 John 4:1—not to believe too quickly everything you hear, even when it appears to come from an authoritarian source.

This does not mean that you should stubbornly stick to preconceived ideas. It is a mistake to close your mind to information that could adjust mistaken views. But neither should you be “quickly shaken from your reason” in the face of pressure from someone who claims to have great knowledge or authority. (2 Thessalonians 2:2) The teacher, of course, was merely playing a trick on his students. Sometimes, though, things are not so innocent. People can be extremely “cunning in contriving error.”—Ephesians 4:14; 2 Timothy 2:14,23,24….

The most renowned of thinkers have been proved wrong again and again, even though what they taught seemed at the time to be beyond dispute….

The situation is the same today. In contrast with the confusing and conflicting opinions of men, God’s inspired Word provides a solid foundation on which we can base our beliefs. (John 17:17; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Peter 1:21) Without it we are left in the impossible situation of trying to build something solid on the shifting sands of human theories and philosophies.—Matthew 7:24-27….

Whatever authority people may arrogate to themselves, you do not have to accept their conclusions if they contradict God, ignore his Word, and violate common sense. In the final analysis, the wise course is always to “let God be found true, though every man be found a liar.”—Romans 3:4. (pp. 29-31)

---------end of EXTRACT from article--------

Would you say that unprecendented groundwork is being laid for the emerging of a New, more open-minded, thinking, autonomous, JW for the future or 21st century? One that does not have to "cowtow" down to every whim and wish of the G.B./WTS? Could this information be used to substantiate such a "new" viewpoint?

What do you think?

TFS

Edited by - TFS on 1 November 2000 8:21:51

18

We Need To ... "Know Jehovah!"

by tfs in

jw
friends

another fact: "know jehovah.

do we really, "know jehovah!

do we "know jehovah!"?.

tfs

Hi:

Perhaps, there is more involved than we ever imagined...this "knowing Jehovah."

The Bible says, that it is a DETESTABLE THING to call a "wicked one", "righteous," and equally, a "righteous one", "wicked." It is just as bad to do so, either way.

Is the WTS the "Faithful Slave," or not?

Are they wicked, or wise and discreet?

What do the facts show? Can we make a determination?

Should Jehovah's Witnesses be permitted to participate in the Olympics, carry the flag, even?

Can JWs vote, hold public office...is this a form of "political involvement" with the "world", under Satan's control? Is it?

Is this blasphemy, from Jehovah's point of view?

Does the WTS/FDS, have a DOUBLE STANDARD with regards those that "have money," and the "have nots" of our organization?

Are brothers treated the same in one country, policies the same for one group of brothers, with another group in a distant land? Is the WTS consistent, or not?

How about, preferential treatment perhaps, towards, celebrities, influential ones...those that are heavy contributors toward the movement? Has this been the case, historically, with the WTS?

How does God feel about this?

Do we "Know Jehovah"?

Then too, are Jehovah's Witnesses really "worshiping" the GB/Headquarters Staff at Brooklyn, NY, in our undying devotion and allegience unto them?

Has that been our PRACTICE from the past, their views on marriage, college education and higher learning, and such.

Further, and more importantly, did we overlook a fact, make a serious mistake, when we ACCEPTED THEIR EVERY SUGGESTION, even if it was NOT clearly stated in the Bible? And yet, we viewed it like God Himself had said it?

Was this a terrible mistake, on our parts? If we were in His Holy presence now, Jehovah, what would he say to us, ... do we "Know Jehovah," and know what He would say to us about such serious matters?

Yes, should we have gone to college, despite the WTS suggestions, or not? Some did this, you know...and they never looked back, some even stayed with the organization, but they defied the WTS, on this matter...But still, where is God's Viewpoint on this matter?

Another area, for instance, how does HE [JEHOVAH] FEEL about our taking "blood", in the form of transfusions? We know what the WTS has said, but is it right, or not?

Do we "know Jehovah"?

How about "transplantation" of human body parts to other humans? Do we "Know Jehovah"?

How about this,

Are we teaching true or false doctrines presently,

Like Did Jesus Christ come into power in 1914 or not? Does he have an "invisible parousia", which started in 1914 or not?

Is this a "Sound Doctrine", or "artfully contrived false story", which?

Further, could it be, that Jesus has been ruling possibly, as Carl Jonnson and others, have purported, conjectured, ever since the 1st century, when he went back to heaven, AFTER his resurrection?

Thus, suggesting the date of 1914 and other related teachings like "invisible parousia," chronology of 607 as Jerusalem's destruction date, and other related teachings, are teachings that are in effect, "leavenous" false doctrine, that infiltrated and festered in and among the congregations of JWs worldwide...since JWs have taught on a worldwide scale these things for over 120 years? -- Matt. 16:12

Is this something of "serious concern" that we need be concerned about? Or, Does this even matter at all to Jehovah God?

Do we "Know Jehovah"?

Moreover, lets consider this: Did the change in the "dedication" questions made by the WTS in 1985, really matter to Him, one way or the other?

Was the change acceptable, or blasphemy on the nation of JWs part, that is, to Him?

Do we "Know Jehovah"?

These are the types of things that show whether we "know Jehovah" or not? Can we Biblically take a stand or not on such things?

Do we "Know Jehovah"?

tfs

Edited by - tfs on 8 October 2000 14:27:1

18

We Need To ... "Know Jehovah!"

by tfs in

jw
friends

another fact: "know jehovah.

do we really, "know jehovah!

do we "know jehovah!"?.

tfs

Hi "7":

And those who are acting wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively.Dan 11:32 Or something like that.

Ahh...you speak of the future...future events, with an UNIDENTIFIABLE "king of North" being the main culprit here...

Who then, today, are we to imagine this one to be, the one that is the "he" mentioned above, the "he" that uses the "smooth words," that lead the "Covenant-breakers" down, down, down "into [the lowest depths of real] apostasy" in God's eyes? ... the "mark of the beast"? Whose the main target here? Do you know?

Do you really, "Know Jehovah", "7"?

And , who will "prevail and act effectively," during this critical, time of crisis, that lies before us?

Surely, you do not claim to be among those with the needed spiritual "insight", which will enable you to act "effectively" against this future adversary...do you?...surely you do not claim to really, "know Jehovah," do you?

Ahh, yes, Amos 3:7...Jehovah does "reveals his confidential matters"...to those close to him, those that "know" Him. Do you claim to one of those privileged ones? Yes, JAH does not do a single thing, without FIRST, first, "revealing" his "confidential matters", to those who are close to him...those that really "Know Him," the "prophets," ... are you among that group, "7"?

tfs

18

We Need To ... "Know Jehovah!"

by tfs in

jw
friends

another fact: "know jehovah.

do we really, "know jehovah!

do we "know jehovah!"?.

tfs

To all Jehovah's Witnesses:

What is our problem to day, given the present-day delemma/crisis facing each one of us today?

As I review most of the comments of brothers today, it seems incomprehensible to many JWs and
and interested outsiders as well to consider the fact that God's People can fail miserably.

It happened in the past, and it can happen again.

Jehovah's Witnesses, have also failed, too. They have missed the mark.

They must now, "search for Jehovah." Search.

Their hierarchy has failed them... even the WTS Headquarters staff...the presumed FDS.

Okay, so we must accept hard facts...

HARD FACT: The WTS is a false prophet, and is not the FDS as so claimed.

Accept that fact. Call "a spade, a spade."

But, now we are brought to some harsh realities,

But still, we must come to know this,

ANOTHER FACT: "Know Jehovah." -- Hebrews 8:11

Do we as christians, really, "know Jehovah..." do we?

Where have we found ourselves, without the WTS to guide us...

Did the WTS "teach us," to "Know Jehovah!"...Did they?

We remember, Paul said at Hebrews 8:11,

"And they will by no means teach each one his fellow citizens and each one his brother, saying: "Know Jehovah!" For they will all know me, from the least one to the greatest one of them."

As recipients of the New Covenant, the actual fulfillment of the Covenant was to PRODUCE A PEOPLE FOR GOD

WHO REALLY KNEW HIM...

has this occurred, I ask?

Do we really, "Know Jehovah!", or do we NEED SOMEONE TO TEACH US ALL ABOUT HIM AGAIN?

Have we fulfilled the Christian Covenant, the New Covenant administered by Christ?

Can we say, as Christ, that we "know Jehovah!"?

Do we "know Jehovah!"?

It seems we have the same problem of those of ancient Israel, too,

They did not "Know Jehovah!" either, and this after hundreds and hundreds of years studying His Laws, principles, standards...studying His ways, His dealings, hearing his "prophets," the words they would speak... and still,

they did not come to "Know Jehovah!"...

But still, God made the promise for them too...

As we read at Jeremiah 31:34,

"And they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, "Know Jehovah!" For they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them," is the utterance of Jehovah... for I shall forgive their error and their sin I shall remember no more."

That promise was held out to ancient Israel...because the nation had not come to "Know Jehovah!"

Are we not, in the same position today, even though we claim to be "christian"?

Jesus reminded Israel of this fact, when he came, in the 17th chapter of John, verses 25, 26...when he said

"righteous father, the world [kosmos, Jewish system] HAS NOT COME TO KNOW YOU..."

Why have we not come to "Know Jehovah!"

Why can we not see that Jehovah God is going to "reward each one according to his behavior," just at the Bible promises...

The WTS is not exempt...the fake FDS...

Remember, Jehovah God, is going to DEFEND HIS NAME, no matter what...

He will defend His honor, glory, His Great Illuustrious Name...

We will KNOW THIS, is we have

"come to Know Jehovah!"

Do we "Know Jehovah!", I ask?

TFS

78

Modern-day Israel's Identity

by Onetruesource in

i would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.

the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.

we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.

tfs

About three years ago, I read a web page touting this so-called "REPORT".. It was simply an infomercial to get you to buy it through snail mail. I wasn't interested. Most anything you want to know against the Org you can find out from the former Bethel members and former Overseers among us, and they don't SELL the information!

I did not know this! I didn't know that

Ex-Bethelite Raymond V. Franz's

"Crisis of Conscience"
"In Search of Christian Freedom"

Also, ex-JW Carl's Jonnson's books

"Gentile Times Reconsidered"

and

"The Sign of the Last Days"

WERE FREE.

Or, ex-JW James Penton's books,

Or, ex-JW David Reed's books, printed publications,

Or, ex-Circuit Overseer Ron Frye's printed publications, advertised on "xjw.com"

I didn't realize, that ALL OF THESE printed publications WERE ALL FREE, GIVEN AWAY COMPLETELY FREE TO THE PUBLIC WITHOUT COST....hmmmm

I was not aware of this.

Since this is the case, could you please provide me and the others on this board with a list of the books on the shelves of bookstores, published by ex-JWs that are given away completely free?

Thanks,

tfs

78

Modern-day Israel's Identity

by Onetruesource in

i would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.

the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.

we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.

tfs

Hi Frenchy:

First of all, there were many that did listen in Jesus’ day or else we would not be having this discussion. You seem to choose not to recognize this.

Is that so. "Many," Hmmmm. No, I didn't recognize that fact.

You see, here is what I previously recognized about Jesus' ministry...

He fed 5,000 miraculously on one occasion. -- Luke 9:10-17

But, only 120 were gathered at Pentecost in the upper room as footstep followers.

So, where were the other "Israelites" that witnessed this miraculous, powerful work, the 5,000, or at least, the 4,880 that is, that he fed? Where were they?

I also, recognized this, He raised the dead, on three (3) distinct, separate occasions, in FULL VIEW of other Israelites, witnesses,

but only 120 gathered in the room at Pentecost

However, I do seem to remember that there were some 1.1 MILLION Jews who were destroyed in 70 c.e. by the Roman armies, with another 97,000 taken captive. A complete decimation of that same disobedient nation, just as Jesus predicted for them. I also recognize that this fact, is related to us by Josephus, the Jewish historian.

"Frenchy," I do believe you are greatly mistaken.

The "MANY," you have referred were not among the Jewish nation at all. Because the overwhelming majority, the "many" of the Israelites, of Jesus' day, those that heard Jesus, DID NOT LISTEN TO JESUS at all. Not one bit. But, Only a "few".

Sure they loved the miracles, the healings, and so on, but very few actually put faith in JESUS' MESSAGE OF TRUTH. His message was largely ignored by the nation of Israel.

Jesus said of that nation, "go in through the narrow gate, because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and MANY are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and FEW are the ones finding it." -- Matt. 7:13, 14

Thats a "few", that listened, of the Israelite nation, a "few", comparatively speaking, to the "many" that Jesus said who were headed for destruction, from that same nation.

So, the "many," you must be referring to, then, are the ones that truly manifested faith, and obedience to God's Word, the "many," who really responded, the "gentile" converts. The ones who were originally, viewed as the "uninvited ones," to the feast. Yes, this "many," responded in swarms, by the 1,000s. It was they that showed the proper level of appreciate, faith, and obedience, totally unlike the disobedient, natural nation, of Ancient Israel, the ones who did not listen.

This is why Jesus summed the matter up this way by saying:

"This why I say to you, The kingdom of God will be TAKEN FROM YOU and given to a nation producing its fruits." -- Matt. 21:43

The Israelite nation did not manifest faith in Jesus' message, so there was no "many" among them that did. Only a "few", just as Jesus said. So, you are greatly mistaken, sir.

tfs

78

Modern-day Israel's Identity

by Onetruesource in

i would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.

the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.

we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.

tfs

Hi WFTW/"One":

It was mentioned above by your "critics" that "credentials" were needed to be placed before them, BEFORE anyone would take this message you speak of, seriously. "Frenchy" said this, and it was "seconded" by other astute readers of scriptures among us here.

My question to you is this,

Do You Think Jesus Christ, during his 3 1/2 year ministry, presented the necessary "credentials" to his listening audience, to substantiate the validity, veracity and accuracy of his message? Did he present the "credentials"?

The answer of course is yes.

tTherefore, if he did present these necessary "credentials", then, WHY DID NOT THE PEOPLE, (ISRAEL) LISTEN, listen to "truth" when it is spoken to them? Why?

"Credentials" or no "credentials" they simply did not listen. They did not listen to "truth." Why?

Hmmmm... Perhaps, for the same "reason" they are not listening now on this board...perhaps?

Are the people on this board, any more noble, any more spiritual, any more "loyal" to God, than those of ancient Israel, of Jesus' day...the ones Jesus encountered...would you say?

Isn't it true, real lovers of truth, listen to truth, that's listen first, then, they "test the inspired expression" of truth, the worthiness of the message by using the Bible, scripures, before denouncing it, as 1 John. 4:1 recommends? Also, like Paul did, and the Beroeans. (Acts 17:2, 3, 11)

I don't see any "testing" going on here... just a lot of condemning without Biblical substantiation to refute the things you have asserted. Identical to the Pharisees approach to, and evaluation, of Jesus' message.

But, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this matter, please.

Cordially,

tfs