Modern-day Israel's Identity

by Onetruesource 78 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Onetruesource

  I would like to open this discussion on Israel, because I have come to learn many things about it. The Bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of Israel. We all know that the natural nation has been disowned by Jehovah, because unfaithfulness. The prophets spoke of things that would happen to Israel that never happened to the Jewish nation. That would imply that these things will be fulfilled upon another group of people that Jehovah has chosen. The 1st century christain congregation was formed to replace the Jewish nation. So, I ask. Who is this Israel that is spoken of in the bible prophecies? If it is not the natural Jews, who continued to carry the torch? Who is the true spiritual nation today? And what proof do you have scripturally? I would like to entertain thoughts on it before I share what I have learned.

  WFTW

  Edited by - Onetruesource on 7 August 2000 15:54:51
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  SolidSender

  .

  Edited by - SolidSender on 10 August 2000 4:26:31
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  Zep

  All that stuff about Jehovah estabishing his throne with David to time indefinite and all the rest it, you know that stuff Solid...From memory there was one statement in the bible that alluded to the fact that Israel would never be destroyed or dominated by another nation after the 70yr prophecy of Jeremiah...it never happened, they were always under the dominion of other nations after then...and they did get destroyed in 70CE...though they're back now!
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  Onetruesource

  Hi Zep,
  It’s interesting that you brought up the natural nation. Even if they could qualify , they they couldn’t. I'll show you why in a minute. But, back to scriptures about Israel’s future. Isaiah 2: 1-4 is one prophecy that has not been fulfilled. ”.The nations have not stopped warring and they have not been reconciled to Jehovah through “Zion”. There are many prophecies about Israel that have to be fulfilled. In fact the Bible is written for and about “Israel”. These things and many others will take place in the near future. But , lets get back to the identity of “Israel” today. Israel in Jehovah’s eyes. The “Israel of God” as the bible mentions.

  If I were to ask any JW who has the truth, practically all will say Jehovah’s Witnesses. I would ask why and they would enumerate numerous teachings and doctrines that are head and shoulder above the rest, including teaching of the paridise earth , one God, 144,00 reigning the earth, etc. In other words we have the “Truth”. Right ? Well, compared to other Christain religions, yes! Nobody comes close to worshiping Jehovah the way he wants. All of that is well and good, but I have found scriptural proof to show it. Hold your horses. Here it comes.

  ISRAEL TO JEHOVAH:
  Modern-Day Israel
  There are certain criteria that have to be met in order to qualify as modern-day Israel. These criteria are based on truths that originate from the Mosaic Law presented by Moses. First of all, lets eliminate the natural Jews scripturally. Because of the ancient Israelites hard heartedness in accepting the word of God through the prophets and for killing his son, the Jews were cast off as God’s special possession. As Jesus words verify at Matt. 23:37-38: “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and the stoners of those sent forth to her, how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gather chicks together under her wings! But you people did not want it. Look! Your house is abandoned to you. “
  Also consider Romans 2:28,29. So, the Jews are no longer in the running. The Christian congregation was formed to replace them. But, in order to qualify as modern-day Israel , this organization must reflect certain characteristics. These characteristics are actually truths that were found in the law code. These fundamental bible truths can be traced from the nation of Israel, down through the first century congregation, and down to our day and time. Upon close examination of historical facts, those truths have been maintained by small Christian groups threw out the centuries. These same characteristics can actually serve in our day to identify Modern-day Israel. See if you can identify an organization that has all of these characteristics:

  1) Called by God’s personal name. (Exodus 6:3; Psalms 83:18)
  2) Monotheistic- one God concept “non-Trinitarian” (Duet. 6:4)
  3) Iconoclastic- does not use ungodly images in worship such as the cross. (Exodus 20:4-6)

  So, now not even the natural Jews fit this bill. Jehovah’s Witness ARE a special people. “THEY ARE NOT” the righteous group that they claim to be though. They are in the same predicament as the Jewish nation in Jesus day. In an unapproved state. Why you might ask. Well, a lot of it has to do with some of things that are found on this board, but we will deal with this latter. SO, what do you think???

  WFTW

  Edited by - Onetruesource on 8 August 2000 14:37:40

  Edited by - Onetruesource on 9 August 2000 12:3:12

  Edited by - Onetruesource on 9 August 2000 12:5:59
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  Onetruesource

  So, that opens a whole can of worms. You see if JW's are Israel, then the majority of the prophecies are talking about THEM. And you'll be suprized as to how they apply to them. In fact the book of Revelation is written about what would happen to the nation in the last days. The book is symbolic and deals with earthly occurrences as they apply to the nation of "Israel", the spiritual nation. No, you won't be suprized, you'll will SHOCKED!!
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  Zep

  Yeah OTS, and just how is the book of revelation talking about JW's then?
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  Onetruesource

  Let’s focus on the identity of “Israel”. It’s first important to identify who “Israel” is before one can understand any of the prophecies. If one does not understand that, we can’t begin to understand the rest of the scriptures. It’s that simple. Can you see the support for JW’s being “ Israel”? If not, let’s discuss that.

  WFTW
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  Zep

  No, i cant for the life of me see them as Israel.They're just another Christian sect who think they're gods chosen and "The Truth"...thats all they are to me OTS.

  If this is your proof that they are something special...i'd say its not very much to go on?

  1) Called by God’s personal name. (Exodus 6:3; Psalms 83:18)

  2) Monotheistic- one God concept “non-Trinitarian” (Duet. 6:4)

  3) Iconoclastic- does not use ungodly images in worship such as the cross. (Exodus 20:4-6)
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  Onetruesource

  To All:

  In the Hebrew scriptures it mentions that God values his name(Psalm 83:18)
  It also tells us he wants a people to carry that name. Acts 15:14-17 tells us how Jehovah
  For the first time took gentiles out of the nation to make a people for his name.

  “Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles to take out of them apeople for his Name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David , which is fallen down;
  and I will build again the ruins thereof , and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.”

  So, the gentiles or the Christian congregation or “ spiritual Israelites” were a people for his name.(Tim 6:1). Those gentiles were the bases of a new nation, “Spiritaul Israel”.
  The apostle Paul and others read the prophecies and saw Jesus fulfill some of them, but the majority of the prophecies and illustrations that Jesus told, they did not see fulfillment of.
  It is these prophecies that would be fulfilled upon “Spiritual Israel”. Yes, it is these prophecies that tell us that God would use the nation of spiritual Israel to be the nation of Kings and Priest. That was the original purpose of the Jewish nation. They were the inheritors of the Kingdom of God. (Matt. 21:43) They would have served as the administration to Rule the world!!! But they lost this privilege and it now falls on the spiritual nation, “Spiritual Israel”.(Rev. 5:9,10)(Rev. 14:1-6)(Rev. 12:1-5 “ the male child”) What you say!? Yes the Spiritual Israelites would fulfill the responsibility that natural Jews were to fill. It is the Abrahamic covenant that must be fulfilled.

  “And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themelves due to the fact that you listened to my voice.”

  The Jews were to be a nation of Kings and priest, but they lost the privilege when they rejected Jesus.(Matt. 21:43) This privilege was now to be fulfilled upon the “Israel of God”, spiritual Jews(Ga. 6:15,16). What made a person a “spiritual Israelite”? Was it an anointing? No. Eventhough we learned that to be so, there are no scriptures to support that all first century Christians were anointed or that an anointing was a mark of a true Christian. It was not a reqirement to be a spiritual Israelite.That was a special arrangement for those that Jesus would take to heaven. What made a spiritual Israelite was their “faith” in Jesus and Jehovah to carry out his will. What Jehovah values the most was identified with Abraham. His faith was pleasing to Jehovah. But it is this faith that has also identifies JW’s as Israel. Coupled with the framework of the truth they posses, they are by far the ones that CAN be “Modern-day Israel”. They are the ones that have this faith.(Ga.2:16, Heb. 11:5-40,40 ) It is important that Israel is identified in order to see what Jehovah is doing in the last days. BUT, only those with the proper heart condition and willingness to except Jehovah’s words as is will benefit. It is imperative to humbly and truthfully look at these scriptures and consider the validity of them if you or any one else is to be used by Jehovah. For Jehovah is searching for such ones. Many won’t. That’s find, but Jehovah is revealing things now that has never been revealed. NEVER!! Among them is the identity of the true “BABYLON THE GREAT”. If anyone wants to continue to learn more let me know. Jehovah has taken out a people for his name. Do you recognize who they are??

  WFTW

  Edited by - Onetruesource on 10 August 2000 12:38:7

  Edited by - Onetruesource on 10 August 2000 16:45:48
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  Zep

  OTS i question your criteria of proof, its as simple as that!.Your 3 VERY generalistic lines of evidence are simply not enough to prove to me that Dubs are the "Truth".You'll have to do better!.I mean people handle snakes down in the South of US...does that prove a thing? NO!.To go around claiming it does is just wrong...and thats how i see your evidence...its not enough!.Your Criteria is too narrow and designed to point to the conclusion it appears you want to reach!
  [url] http://home.online.no/~jansh/wteng/tenreasons.htm[/url]