BTW, Hilda, When I was referring to a liar, I was definately not referring to Bowen. Try another guess.
ThatSucks
JoinedPosts by ThatSucks
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62
JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles
by DakotaRed inbelow is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.
the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.
what a pity they won't open their eyes;.
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62
JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles
by DakotaRed inbelow is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.
the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.
what a pity they won't open their eyes;.
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ThatSucks
Hello again 'Hilda':
:: Yes, and once again, you don't give a damn about why he started what he started. When he first started this, it was because he couldn't get results under "theocratic order" from what I understand. Now 'you' want rid of him because he is crying foul. THAT is what is obvious to any sane or ratinal or truly TRUTHFUL person.
: Your words, "from what I understand" are interesting. They imply that you are going on second-hand information and you don't really know what transpired behind closed doors in Bowen's case. Really, how could you? Please do me a favor. Apply Proverbs 18:13 in your life. Do not reply to a matter before you hear it out, dear. No one wants to get rid of Bowen. He can still repent and turn around, dear. Attitude is everything.
First of all, I say 'I understand' as an expression. I have been keeping up with this since 1+ years ago when it first started. Second, why don't you apply Proverbs 18:13 and do the same, unless you know what is going on behind those 'closed doors'. Besides, how would Bowen 'repent' and turn around anyway? Wouldn't that be by dropping this whole thing and pretending it never happened? How does ignoring a matter help the victims? How does ignoring a matter reestablish their safety and security? It doesn't. It creates a haven for those without a conscience. It traumatizes the victims, keeping them cowering in fear that it MIGHT HAPPEN AGAIN, because NOBODY DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT. Yes, I agree that attitude is everything. Unfortunately, yours needs adjusting.
: And I am not saying that everyone on Bowen's site is lying. But if the story of those complaining is to be believed, then one person must come forth and admit that they were DF FOR being a victim. I just do not see it that way.
Unfortunately, you will NEVER see that, and you and I BOTH know why. Here is a hint, it's called 'divisions' and 'slander'.
It was fun talking to you Greg, but it's time to eat some dinner.
Good Day.
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62
JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles
by DakotaRed inbelow is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.
the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.
what a pity they won't open their eyes;.
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ThatSucks
Hello again 'Hilda':
:: Well, shiver me timbers. This is interesting news. So, it is your contention that the elders should indeed report suspected pedophilia to the police (even in a non-reporting state)? I am just wondering because in your post above, you did say:
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If the state required such action I would agree for then superior authoritties would come into play. Otherwise, I say let the elders handle matters according to Paul and the rest of Bible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------The bold is mine. Anyway, have you changed your mind, or am I misunderstanding you? Please explain.
: I have not really changed my mind. My comment was intended to show that I might be willing to change my mind if I could see how the suggested action you are prescribing harmonized with God's bible. That is my concern. The will of God. Only God's will can benefit all concerned, inclcuing the children. Ignoring his will harms everyone concerned.
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ok. God's will. Right. okay. Sure Greg. *sniff*.
:: Than that settles it. Like many other people of your religion, you 'have faith that the elders are qualified to do what they are appointed to do.' So that explains why this issue exists. Naive people like you throw blind-faith at folks who take advantage of the situation right behind your back. Wonderful. Now we see the original problem of the catholic church, and why they were able to keep a lid on things for as long as they have. And in regards to your notion of God making changes and others trying to force his hand, it sounds to me like your God is a bit more on the human side than many others I know of.
: I am not a fan of blind faith. But this mystic does believe that God's bible is true. We humans may sometimes misunderstand it and need adjustment. But God is true, though every man be found a liar.
Well, I don't know about every man being found a liar, but I know of at least one.
::: Do you likie my logomachy as well, whoever you are? BTW, I never said I was Greg [Stafford?]. Hilda is an ol' lady mystic.
:: No, I said that you were simply 'Greg'. It is also my current opinion, subject to change at a moment's notice. (New Light, if you will):
: Good one. But you did not answer my question. How do you likie my logomachy?
Oh, sorry I missed that. I don't consider you being engaged in a logomachy though, it's more like bad comedy. But, you are well spoken.
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JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles
by DakotaRed inbelow is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.
the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.
what a pity they won't open their eyes;.
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ThatSucks
::: Show us where anyone has been kicked out of jws for being a "child advocate" or a victim of child abuse.
:: Impossible. Since the elders probably won't talk about it, and since anyone who knew about it was probably pressured into silence, very few people who would be considered as credible by you (i.e. non-apostates) would even be aware of the situation:
: Just like I thought. Just a bunch of assertions with nary a bit of evidence to back it up.
And, true to form, this is ultimately the best way to keep bad publicity from reaching the public. I guess all of the other folks who have talked about their experiences on this board and others are immediately and collectively lying about their individual experiences. Besides, you seem fine asserting with lack of evidence, so what is your problem?
::: It might have happened in rare cases. But this ol' lady can almosty guarantee you that the wrong was in time righted.
:: How? By silencing the victim and 'reproving' the perpatrator? What did you do, take the microphone away. Oh man, that's terrible!:
: Read what I wrote again. I was talking about if a victim was DF, the wrong being righted. Do you get it now?
Yes Greg, I get it now. Thank you for clarifying that.
::: If Bowen is kicked out--it will not be for his child advocacy, we can assure you. You are just a biggot.
:: No kidding. You can't kick him out for child advocacy, it would be a suicidal way of wording things. You are just worring about him possibly 'causing divisions', you obviously don't give a damn about why he could be 'causing divisions'. That would be acknowledging what is obvious to 60% of humanity.
: Anyone who has read Bowen website or posts here knows why he MIGHT be kicked out. That is obvious to any sane or rational or truly mystical person.
Yes, and once again, you don't give a damn about why he started what he started. When he first started this, it was because he couldn't get results under "theocratic order" from what I understand. Now 'you' want rid of him because he is crying foul. THAT is what is obvious to any sane or ratinal or truly TRUTHFUL person.
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62
JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles
by DakotaRed inbelow is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.
the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.
what a pity they won't open their eyes;.
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ThatSucks
Deat that:
::: Have you ever heard of the separation of church and state?
:: Yes, I have. While I am all for allowing folks to practice their religion as they wish, I do not like seeing a religion's theocratic policies unnecessarily endanger others. I don't like to see a JW pedo repent and bypass the same justice that another member of society would face should he be caught or confess. The same goes for every religion on this planet, IMO.:
: Keep in mind that I am not saying that the authorities should not deal with the molester. I am just trying to explain why the congregation may accept a "molester" back into the congregation just as they would accept an adulterer or a homosexual. All of these acts are sexual sins.
Well, shiver me timbers. This is interesting news. So, it is your contention that the elders should indeed report suspected pedophilia to the police (even in a non-reporting state)? I am just wondering because in your post above, you did say:
If the state required such action I would agree for then superior authoritties would come into play. Otherwise, I say let the elders handle matters according to Paul and the rest of Bible.
The bold is mine. Anyway, have you changed your mind, or am I misunderstanding you? Please explain.::: Are you so faithless so as to doubt Yahweh's ability to qualify his own for his service?
:: Since faith is determined by the convictions of the individual, I would have to answer in the affirmative, especially if they are not trained to handle these abusive situations in a manner that will HELP the victim instead of repress them. Besides, a man sticking his wanker in a young one has nothing to do with spirituality, and everything to do with crime, at least in my country.:
: Not every case of pedophilia involves penis-vaginal-anal penetration and you know that. But even fondling, I would agree, is horrible and has nothing to do with true spirituality indeed. Today this act is unlawful in the Us because of positive law designed to protect children. In ancient Greece or ancient Judaism, pedophilia was not a crime per se. But today I have faith that the elders are qualified to do what they are appointed to do. God directs his organization and if changes need to be made, he will see that they are made. Getting impatient or trying to force God's hand does not work.
Than that settles it. Like many other people of your religion, you 'have faith that the elders are qualified to do what they are appointed to do.' So that explains why this issue exists. Naive people like you throw blind-faith at folks who take advantage of the situation right behind your back. Wonderful. Now we see the original problem of the catholic church, and why they were able to keep a lid on things for as long as they have. And in regards to your notion of God making changes and others trying to force his hand, it sounds to me like your God is a bit more on the human side than many others I know of.
: Do you likie my logomachy as well, whoever you are? BTW, I never said I was Greg [Stafford?]. Hilda is an ol' lady mystic.
No, I said that you were simply 'Greg'. It is also my current opinion, subject to change at a moment's notice. (New Light, if you will).
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62
JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles
by DakotaRed inbelow is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.
the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.
what a pity they won't open their eyes;.
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ThatSucks
Hello once again 'Hilda', I just couldn't resist commenting
: Show us where anyone has been kicked out of jws for being a "child advocate" or a victim of child abuse.
Impossible. Since the elders probably won't talk about it, and since anyone who knew about it was probably pressured into silence, very few people who would be considered as credible by you (i.e. non-apostates) would even be aware of the situation.
: It might have happened in rare cases. But this ol' lady can almosty guarantee you that the wrong was in time righted.
How? By silencing the victim and 'reproving' the perpatrator? What did you do, take the microphone away. Oh man, that's terrible!
: If Bowen is kicked out--it will not be for his child advocacy, we can assure you. You are just a biggot.
No kidding. You can't kick him out for child advocacy, it would be a suicidal way of wording things. You are just worring about him possibly 'causing divisions', you obviously don't give a damn about why he could be 'causing divisions'. That would be acknowledging what is obvious to 60% of humanity.
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62
JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles
by DakotaRed inbelow is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.
the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.
what a pity they won't open their eyes;.
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ThatSucks
Hello again 'Hilda'.
::: You got it all wrong again. Repentance is only of value when it is genuine and rendered in godly fear.
:: Oh, you must really be mystical then Greg. Here you are indirectly claiming to read the hearts of others as a voodoo priest would. I agree that 'Repentance is only of value when it is genuine and rendered in godly fear', because God has nothing to do with it. (I realize this is not what you meant, but I used the term "godly" in a different way than you talk about in my 'suckian language')
: I cannot read hearts, dear. If reading hearts were required, then the Christian congregation would not be able to reinstate or allow anyone to be a part of it. all we have to go by are fruits of repentance. Until a person proves that she is irreformable, we continue to lovingly deal with her.
Sorry about that Greg. When I said that your words reminded me of catholicism, I was referring to the notion that someone could do something very 'naughty' and then claim repentance and walk the walk and talk the talk to get away with it, as catholics are sometimes stereotyped. When you said 'Repentance is only of value when it is genuine and rendered in godly fear', I ASSumed that you were implying that only JWs truly repent (vs. catholics), which later led me to say: 'Oh, you must really be mystical then Greg. Here you are indirectly claiming to read the hearts of others as a voodoo priest would.' While I did mean what I said re: godly, I retract any further discussion of this 'angle', as I 'phucked up'.
:: Since you already acknowledge the authorities as superior, why not encourage the elders to allow the ones professionally trained to deal with the situation handle the situation, instead of "untrained volunteers"?:
: Have you ever heard of the separation of church and state?
Yes, I have. While I am all for allowing folks to practice their religion as they wish, I do not like seeing a religion's theocratic policies unnecessarily endanger others. I don't like to see a JW pedo repent and bypass the same justice that another member of society would face should he be caught or confess. The same goes for every religion on this planet, IMO.
: Are you so faithless so as to doubt Yahweh's ability to qualify his own for his service?
Since faith is determined by the convictions of the individual, I would have to answer in the affirmative, especially if they are not trained to handle these abusive situations in a manner that will HELP the victim instead of repress them. Besides, a man sticking his wanker in a young one has nothing to do with spirituality, and everything to do with crime, at least in my country.
: l'kiddush hashem.
I always enjoy your morologia Greg.
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Favorite Sigs I have seen --Fluff
by thewiz incross my fingers and hope this works.
beat that and more to come.
homer simpson and a tiger
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ThatSucks
Man, this brings back old BBS memories. What was the name of that program that would let you draw ASCII art? It was used a bunch on the old WWIV BBS. Oh well. Nice stuff!
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62
JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles
by DakotaRed inbelow is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.
the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.
what a pity they won't open their eyes;.
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ThatSucks
Your previous comments, waiting, definately, do not suck. Very good points.
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Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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ThatSucks
Will Power: Forget it. I asked a similar question to a devout JW (who did not consider themselves of the 'annointed') earlier last year, and after scratching their heads, they told me that JC was their mediator and refused to discuss the situation anymore, despite their literature saying otherwise.
Witnesses are just like every other fundy out there. They believe what they want to believe because they want to believe what they think someone said they should. They just have it in their heads that they are the only ones right about almost anything. This stubborn bull-headedness has played throughout most of their history and made them some of the biggest 'delusionalists' I have ever seen.