Posts by EasyPrompt

37

No more judicial committee if maybe suicidal

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

the new direction in the new elders book is very clear.

absolutely no jd if there is a suspicion of suicidal thoughts.. this is obviously due to the high number of suicidal attempts after the announcement that someone is no longer a jw and the shunning that accompanied it.. so what will happen now going forward if situations arise where there would formerly have been a jd and they say there is suicidal thoughts?.

i can’t see it working, but elders stick rigidly to what it says in the book.

EasyPrompt

ExBethelitenowPIMA said: "but elders stick rigidly to what it says in the book."

No, they don't.

ExBethelitenowPIMA, Massimo Introvigne says the same thing as you, that the elders always go by what is written in their publications, but he says a lot of things he really knows nothing about.

Have you ever been through a "shepherding call"? Have you ever been through a judicial hearing or an appeal hearing?

The elders don't "always follow" what is in their book. Only when it's convenient for them.

Why are you trying to advertise for the borg elder book anyway? Do you have stock in their "publishing company" or something?

1

RNZ investigation reveals 11 alleged pedophiles active within JWs

by EasyPrompt in

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/495727/rnz-investigation-reveals-11-alleged-paedophiles-active-within-the-jehovah-s-witnesses.

.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/jehovahs-witnesses-investigation-reveals-11-alleged-paedophiles-active-within-the-church/xfyeqifk2zfzxnj2ugp5yafxra/.

EasyPrompt

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/495727/rnz-investigation-reveals-11-alleged-paedophiles-active-within-the-jehovah-s-witnesses

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/jehovahs-witnesses-investigation-reveals-11-alleged-paedophiles-active-within-the-church/XFYEQIFK2ZFZXNJ2UGP5YAFXRA/

9

Half of disfellowshipped one suicidal?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

jw
friends

this ex brother says about half of disfellowshipped ones are suicidal at about 43 minutes into this video https://youtube.com/watch?v=otcdksnf4zo&feature=sharec.

it really is that brutal having your family and friends shun you that many unfortunately do actually take their own lives including steve letts nephew.. no wonder the drastic change in the elders book to not have any more judicial committees if suspected it would make them suicidal.. this is probably one of the largest changes in recent history that most rank and file don’t know about yet.. how it will work in practice i just don’t know.

what if someone keeps sinning but says it’s weakness not wickedness and they are suicidal?

EasyPrompt

(I posted the transcript of one of the elder "shepherding call" meetings on this thread, as well as copies of various emails from the elders...they are not shepherds - they are wolves...)

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6553089276903424/three-amish-bishops-who-told-woman-rescind-protective-order-against-husband-guilty-intimidation

9

Half of disfellowshipped one suicidal?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

jw
friends

this ex brother says about half of disfellowshipped ones are suicidal at about 43 minutes into this video https://youtube.com/watch?v=otcdksnf4zo&feature=sharec.

it really is that brutal having your family and friends shun you that many unfortunately do actually take their own lives including steve letts nephew.. no wonder the drastic change in the elders book to not have any more judicial committees if suspected it would make them suicidal.. this is probably one of the largest changes in recent history that most rank and file don’t know about yet.. how it will work in practice i just don’t know.

what if someone keeps sinning but says it’s weakness not wickedness and they are suicidal?

EasyPrompt

I don't believe it. Who's the "they" who knows about the "change"? When did this supposed "change" happen?

Look, I was just disfellowshipped last year. The charge was "reviling and causing divisions" since I reported abuse and warned the rest of the congregation via email. The elder in question was a COBE and HLC and substitute pioneer school teacher and a high rated convention speaker, and the other elders wouldn't proceed with the procedures as written in the elder book. Instead they did everything they could to throw in "monkey wrenches" and dance around even their own procedures. I sent copies of a transcript of one of the "shepherding calls" to Bethel, as well as copies of emails sent to me by the CO and different elders so that Bethel would see how they weren't following their own supposed procedures. (A lot of that time was during COVID, so much of the communication was via email and Zoom rather than at the KH.) It turns out Bethel was the one telling these guys what to do, so they could keep that elder in "use". There were three different KHs involved, three bodies of elders, two COs, and then the appeal committee with elders from another circuit/KHs.

For months, one tactic these guys used was to copy a paragraph from the w88 about mentally deranged people shouting out during meetings and quote it to me saying "you need to be medicated." They even said "we'll take you to the doctor so you can get treatment" even though I very clearly told them I regularly see my medical practitioner for a thyroid disorder that is treated with medications, thank you very much, I have a clean bill of health and I am under no need for any psych medications. I have never disrupted a meeting. Those elders kept giving me assignments to research and arrange phone and writing territories during COVID, and they kept calling on me to comment during Zoom meetings. It wasn't until I sent emails to the congregation members to tell them what was going on about the abuse situation that the "get medicated" baloney started getting shot at me on the "shepherding calls".

Eventually after several extremely rude and condescending "shepherding calls" I told those elders - "Fine - make an appointment. Sure, you can take me, and when we go in to the doctor, I'll tell him that these elder-clergy-guys here with me want me to be drugged up because I keep telling on how they are allowing an abuser to stay an elder in the congregation." After that, they stopped with the "we'll help you get to the doctor" bit, but they stripped "privileges" little by little, saying "we're not supporting your ministry any more, no more literature for you" and "no more Zoom meetings" since I would turn off my video/audio during their hypocritical prayers. Then when meetings were going to resume "no coming to the KH" since I asked to meet with the elder in question about the abuse and the elders didn't want to have to follow up "with the second part of Matthew 18". (They told me they wouldn't talk to that elder about the abuse allegations until I confronted him first, and that I hadn't talked to him yet since he wouldn't answer my repeated phone calls and letters.) They got a trespassing ban on me when the KHs were opening up again because they didn't want to have to follow through with the abuse procedures. Bethel told them how to avoid having to follow those procedures.

These guys have known me for over 20 years. I pioneered for five years, then married an elder and raised my two kids as good little Jehovah's Witnesses. They were baptized at ages 9 and 11. I auxiliary pioneered every year a few months of the year. I was interviewed on different parts at conventions. They never gave me a hard time about being "disruptive" until I told the truth about abuse an elder did, and then they threw me under the bus.

They disfellowshipped me even though they labeled me "mentally" whatever. Their label was a lie, just like their charges for disfellowshipping me were a lie. They don't care about anyone, ExBethelitenowPIMA. Those "changes" are just for show. They are a pack of liars who are trying to "rule as kings" now. They have slaves. They have positions and people paying for their cars and insurance and food. It's a scam. They aren't letting go of their "kingdom" until Jesus comes and rips it away from them.

If it's to their advantage to "disfellowship" someone, they'll do it. It doesn't matter to them if the person is suicidal or not, or whether they are guilty or not. My alcoholic husband was caught smoking, committing adultery, celebrating Christmas, arrested for domestic assault and breaking conditions, there were plenty of witnesses, he never repented, and he was not disfellowshipped because he supports the elder worship/GB worship.

It's a scam. It's all a bunch of baloney.

Here is part of an email from one CO to me...

35

Is WT Teachig on Hell Biblical?

by Sea Breeze in

i guess you could say jesus was the first christian, since he was the christ.

and as the first christian, jesus spoke more about hell that any other biblical figure.

but, he is also the figure that said that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.

EasyPrompt

More for Rattigan350☺️...

The WTBT$ teaches that the preaching work will be over when the great tribulation begins, but they have that backwards too. They've been preaching that Jesus has been king since 1914, but they haven't been telling the truth. He wasn't king then. Once the great tribulation begins, we'll know he was made king in heaven. Then it will be time to preach that he's been made king.

"However, when they hand you over, do not become anxious about how or what you are to speak, for what you are to speak will be given you in that hour; for the ones speaking are not just you, but it is the spirit of your Father that speaks by you."

"However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out?"

"Jesus said to them again: “May you have peace. Just as the Father has sent me, I also am sending you.” After saying this he blew on them and said to them: “Receive holy spirit.""

"But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.”

When you see the attack of the nations break out on all the religious institutions, you will know that Jesus has been enthroned in heaven and he is furiously "riding the white horse" to clear Jehovah's name of reproach. Love will motivate you to announce in that hour that Jesus has become King in heaven, to rule for a little while amidst his enemies here on earth. That will be the time to maintain loyalty to the Kingdom by showing love for people and God, to obey God as ruler rather than men when those men ask us to do things that are not in harmony with God's will. It will then be time to comfort the people, to let them know the tribulation will last 3 1/2 years (while the nations attempt to make a go of world rulership without hypocritical religious institutions) but that Jesus will come at the end of that time and set all things right, since humans aren't meant to rule one another and just make a big mess out of it.

"In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Ju·deʹa, saying: “Repent, for the Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.” This, in fact, is the one spoken of through Isaiah the prophet in these words: “A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of Jehovah! Make his roads straight.’”"

The 3 1/2 years will be like "hell" for religious institutions in that they will be removed. But lowly ones will be alright. We'll do our best to comfort others during that time. We don't have to be afraid, because we're not alone. "I will be with you all the days," said Jesus, and "I am not alone, for the Father is with me."

(It is quite likely that forums discussing religion like this will no longer be permitted by the nations during that time of tribulation.)

35

Is WT Teachig on Hell Biblical?

by Sea Breeze in

i guess you could say jesus was the first christian, since he was the christ.

and as the first christian, jesus spoke more about hell that any other biblical figure.

but, he is also the figure that said that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.

EasyPrompt

Oops @Fisherman, I think Vanderhoven meant it as a question that has an obvious answer...God will not keep people alive to torture them forever. It's never come up into His heart. 🙂

The answer to that question "when will God grant immortality to the wicked" is Never. You are right, Fisherman - life is a blessing not a curse. 🙂

The "fire" illustrations that Jesus gave in the gospels and the related plagues of Revelation are illustrative of the time during the "appointed times of the nations" aka the three and a half years of the great tribulation when the nations attack religious institutions and the Pharisee-types are removed from their prestigious positions and the false religious doctrines are destroyed. That time period has a beginning and it has an end.

"Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen." Since it's only 3 1/2 years, we will see the beginning and the end of that time period. Jesus was telling us so that we wouldn't freak out when the tribulation begins. Jesus and the angels will help us get through that 3 1/2 years, just like they helped the Israelites get through the wilderness time.

35

Is WT Teachig on Hell Biblical?

by Sea Breeze in

i guess you could say jesus was the first christian, since he was the christ.

and as the first christian, jesus spoke more about hell that any other biblical figure.

but, he is also the figure that said that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.

EasyPrompt

For dear Rattigan350🙂:

Scriptures mentioning "3 1/2 years" of great tribulation when nations attack and destroy religious institutions...

Daniel 7:25 regarding the future time when the UN is the world power "he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time."

Daniel 8:24 talks about the UN world power bringing ruin in an extraordinary way and being successful and acting effectively. "He will bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones."

Daniel 11:45-12:1 says that when the great prince takes the throne in heaven there will be great distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. (He didn't take the throne in 1914...)

Daniel 12:6,7 Says "it will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things will come to their finish."

Daniel 12:11 talks about 1,290 days; 12:12 mentions the 1,335 days.

At Luke 21:24 Jesus said "and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled."

Revelation 12:7-12 says that when war breaks out in heaven, the Devil will be cast down "for a short period of time."

Revelation 12:13,14 talks about "for a time and times and half a time."

When Jesus takes the throne in heaven, he will cast the Devil down. The UN will be allowed to get riled up and attack all religious institutions. The great tribulation will be 3 1/2 years.

35

Is WT Teachig on Hell Biblical?

by Sea Breeze in

i guess you could say jesus was the first christian, since he was the christ.

and as the first christian, jesus spoke more about hell that any other biblical figure.

but, he is also the figure that said that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.

EasyPrompt

Now, dear sweet Rattigan350, you know those WTBT$ teachings are not all biblically based.

Daniel chapter 4 has nothing to do with 1914.

Overlapping generations is hogwash. The "appointed times of the nations" isn't some "Gentile Times" foolishness; the Bible shows "the appointed times of the nations" is the 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation when the nations attack religious institutions.

The Bible is clear that Jesus hasn't arrived yet, because he said everybody would see him.

The FDS as a title is ridiculous; Jesus clearly said "don't call anyone on earth your Good Teacher or Rabbi or Father" just be like brothers.

Paul said if someone doesn't want to work to support their own ministry then mark them and avoid them - there was no "volunteer donation supported commune by the lake" for some group. By Paul's own words, all those able-bodied "special full time servants" should be avoided until they learn to support their own "ministry" and pay their own taxes.

Jesus talked to criminals and forgave people without having a three-clown backroom interrogation. Jesus' and John's and Paul's words are completely taken out of context for that mock "biblical support" for the dumb disfellowshipping ancient Greek culture intrusion doctrine of ostracism.

You don't need "two witnesses" to know how to protect somebody from CSA. Jesus stood up for people even when there were no "witnesses". That's what a good shepherd does - protects the sheep,

The supposed Revelation "new scrolls" teaching the GB thinks is some new future Bible they'll get a part in helping write like some new book of Mormon is non-existent when you look at the verse in the context; it's just talking about records being made and assessed in the future.

Jesus said nothing about two classes that would never see each other. He said "Truly, I will be with you in Paradise" to a guy who was not going to be part of the kingdom government in heaven because Jesus knew those in heaven would also be here hanging out with people on earth.

The WTBT$ says God will never come hang out on earth with His kids on earth, but the Bible says He will.

WTBT$ gets all kinds of Bible stuff wrong.

But, they don't get everything wrong. The Bible is God's Word. There was a Flood. When a person is dead, they're dead. Jesus didn't resurrect himself. And coconuts are cool.😎

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHFXG3r_0B8

35

Is WT Teachig on Hell Biblical?

by Sea Breeze in

i guess you could say jesus was the first christian, since he was the christ.

and as the first christian, jesus spoke more about hell that any other biblical figure.

but, he is also the figure that said that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.

EasyPrompt

@SeaBreeze said: "Why not make a Christian doctrine out of Eccl. 10: 19 too?"

Jesus made bread for people.

"Do you not yet perceive and understand? Are your hearts still dull in understanding? ‘Though having eyes, do you not see; and though having ears, do you not hear?’ Do you not remember when I broke the five loaves for the 5,000 men, how many baskets full of fragments you collected?” They said to him: “Twelve.” “When I broke the seven loaves for the 4,000 men, how many large baskets full of fragments did you take up?” And they said to him: “Seven.” With that he said to them: “Do you not yet understand?”"

Jesus made wine for people.

"When the director of the feast tasted the water that had now been turned into wine, not knowing where it came from (although the servants who had drawn out the water knew), the director of the feast called the bridegroom and said to him: “Everyone else puts out the fine wine first, and when people are intoxicated, the inferior. You have saved the fine wine until now.” Jesus did this in Caʹna of Galʹi·lee as the beginning of his signs, and he made his glory manifest, and his disciples put their faith in him."

Jesus made money for people.

"But that we do not cause them to stumble, go to the sea, cast a fishhook, and take the first fish that comes up, and when you open its mouth, you will find a silver coin. Take that and give it to them for me and you.”

Ecclesiastes 10:19

"Bread is made for laughter, and wine makes life enjoyable; but money answers every need."

@SeaBreeze said: "I guess you could say Jesus was the first Christian, since he was the Christ"

35

Is WT Teachig on Hell Biblical?

by Sea Breeze in

i guess you could say jesus was the first christian, since he was the christ.

and as the first christian, jesus spoke more about hell that any other biblical figure.

but, he is also the figure that said that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.

EasyPrompt

Jesus' illustrations in the gospels and in Revelation are not about literal eternal fire and they are not about burning people forever. The Hebrew-Aramaic scriptures in the so-called "Old Testament" help explain the meaning of "fire" in Revelation just like they help explain the meaning of the word "virgins" in the following passage...

Revelation 14:3-5

"And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish."

@SeaBreeze, the "Old Testament" book The Song of Solomon explains the meaning of these "virgins". Those of the 144,000 are loyal to Christ and willing to wait for his kingdom rather than figuratively prostitute themselves now in order to have fame and money, like the leaders of the religious institutions prostitute themselves when they fleece the flock and lord it over the flock in order to rule like "kings" now.

The faithful virgin talking of her shepherd lover at Song of Solomon 5:10-16 uses imagery reminiscent of the temple - pomegranates, gold, sapphires, pillars, and cedars.

Song of Solomon is not just a "love story" about a man and a woman. It portrays the willingness of those in the kingdom government to wait faithfully for Christ. It is in that way that they are "virgins". It's figurative.

Song of Solomon 8:6,7

"Place me as a seal upon your heart,

As a seal upon your arm,

For love is as strong as death is,

And exclusive devotion is as unyielding as the Grave.

Its flames are a blazing fire, the flame of Jah.

Surging waters cannot extinguish love,

Nor can rivers wash it away.

If a man would offer all the wealth of his house for love,

It would be utterly despised.”

Loyalty and integrity can be like an undying flame of love. The flame isn't literal. It's figurative.

Solomon's writings include Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Song of Solomon. All three of those books are inspired of God and necessary in order to accurately understand Revelation and Jesus' teachings.

@SeaBreeze, You are much mistaken when you call part of God's Word:

"philosophical work...written from a physical world point of view."

If you are only getting a "materialistic" view of God's Word, then it's because your preconceived notion is blocking your heart from reading along with holy spirit, the primary fruit of which is love. You are not reading with love in mind. That's why you keep misunderstanding who God is and what He's about. It's not complicated. You don't need a degree or sophisticated training to understand love. God said if we keep asking Him for His spirit to understand something, He'll answer that prayer. Love helps us understand. Love is part of His spirit. We have to keep asking for Love in order to understand God, because God is Love.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwxIzr7CbcQ

"They keep following the Lamb wherever he goes..."