Posts by EasyPrompt

69

Where Does Watchtower Doctrine Contradict Scripture?

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are some areas that i have found:.

not only is watchtower eschatology offbase, which is not critical, but so is watchtower soteriology … which is critical.

the bible says not to put trust in men who cannot save.

EasyPrompt

The progression of world powers leading up to the Kingdom with Jesus as King is depicted from slightly different angels at Daniel chapter 2, Daniel chapter 7, Daniel chapter 8, Daniel chapters 11-12, and Revelation chapter 19.

Here are some specific verses from those passages that mention the Kingdom with Jesus as King:

"“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever." (Daniel 2:44)

"I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed." (Daniel 7:13,14)

"He [the last world power leader] will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand." (Daniel 8:25)

"During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people." (Daniel 12:1)

"I saw heaven opened, and look! a white horse. And the one seated on it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. His eyes are a fiery flame, and on his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, and he is clothed with an outer garment stained with blood, and he is called by the name The Word of God. Also, the armies in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. And out of his mouth protrudes a sharp, long sword with which to strike the nations, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. Moreover, he treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his outer garment, yes, on his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords." (Revelation 19:11-16)

When taken together, these parallel depictions of the Kingdom (and others in the scriptures) clearly show that Jesus is also known as Michael.

(Incidentally, the Watchtower completely overlooks these accounts where the timeline of the great tribulation is clearly laid out as the 3 1/2 years of the appointed times of the nations. Since the WTBT$ thinks the kingdom began in 1914, they completely miss the boat that "the appointed times of the nations" begins when religious institutions are attacked by the final world power the UN, which is made clear in those accounts in Daniel, Revelation, and the gospels.)

69

Where Does Watchtower Doctrine Contradict Scripture?

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are some areas that i have found:.

not only is watchtower eschatology offbase, which is not critical, but so is watchtower soteriology … which is critical.

the bible says not to put trust in men who cannot save.

EasyPrompt

Hi, @Vanderhoven

You already know how I feel about the GB/FDS people, lol...I do agree with you that many of the Watchtower teachings "shut up the Kingdom" in a very Pharisaical way. However, as far as the "Jesus is Michael" teaching, the Bible is very clear on that one.

God told the Israelites through Moses: "I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, because my name is in him." (Exodus 23:20-21)

Only Jesus has authority from God to pardon our transgressions. "...in order for you to know that the Son of man has authority to forgive sins on earth..." (Matthew 9:6; Mark 2:10; Luke 5:24)

God said to Moses: "Go now, lead the people to the place about which I have spoken to you. Look! My angel will go ahead of you..." (Exodus 32:34)

That chief angel was still "going ahead" of the nation when Moses died and is the same one mentioned by name in Jude...

"But when Miʹcha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body..." (Jude 9)

That same angel was still with the nation in Joshua's time...

"I have come as prince of Jehovah’s army..." (Joshua 5:14)

And also in Daniel's time...

"During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people..." (Daniel 12:1)

"...Miʹcha·el, your prince." (Daniel 10:21)

Since Michael is called "your prince" he is also the same one as Shiloh.

"The scepter will not depart from Judah, neither the commander’s staff from between his feet, until Shiʹloh comes, and to him the obedience of the peoples will belong." (Genesis 49:10)

Shiloh is Jesus.

A few other verses are mentioned here in context...

(Galatians 4:14; 1 Thessalonians 4:16; Revelation 19:17)

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

EasyPrompt

@Rattigan🤣jokester - fish dip, haha!

I heard some cookies in Costa Rica are also called Tartarus. If you eat too many, you may have Tartarus on your teeth.😬

(No Tartarus in Paradise, either way.)

I don't know who Robert Bowman is either, but I am confident that Peter and Paul knew what they were talking about.

Ah, Rattigan☺️. I wonder if you're a lot like Nathanael...

"But Na·thanʹa·el said to him: “Can anything good come out of Nazʹa·reth?” Philip said to him: “Come and see.” Jesus saw Na·thanʹa·el coming toward him and said about him: “See, truly an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.”"

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

EasyPrompt

Hi, SeaBreeze...

In the garden, the snake told Eve that "when you're dead, you're not really dead."

Since that time, the "when you're dead, you're not really dead" theme has been prevalent in many religious teachings, including groups of people who weave that teaching in with some Bible teachings.

The Jews tried to weave it into what they believe and many Christians try to do the same today.

The Bible makes clear that when you're dead, you're dead.

"Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going." (Ecclesiastes 9:10)

Jesus went to the Grave, meaning he was dead.

He wasn't partially dead. He wasn't mostly dead. He wasn't slightly alive. He was all dead. (Even though it's a fun movie, "The Princess Bride" teaching about "mostly dead is still slightly alive" thing is a fairy tale.🙂)

Thus, while I don't agree with your conclusion in this matter, I do appreciate your generosity and willingness to share what is in your heart. You are very hospitable and I hope you continue to enjoy the blessing of having others pour out the same graciousness and respect to you as you pour out to others.💖

"Practice giving, and people will give to you. They will pour into your laps a fine measure, pressed down, shaken together, and overflowing. For with the measure that you are measuring out, they will measure out to you in return."

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

EasyPrompt

The context of Revelation 6:9-11 shows that the illustration is figurative. The four horsemen are figurative. Death and the Grave are figurative. The altar and souls scene is figurative. It's not literal.

First Corinthians 15 in context is talking about Christ's resurrection initially. Then Paul is explaining how the heavenly resurrection works.

Why did Paul focus on Christ's resurrection and not mention all the earlier resurrections recorded in the scriptures? Because Christ's resurrection was different. None of the other resurrections, either the ones by Elijah or Elisha or even by Jesus himself during his ministry on earth, were of a "new creation". Those other resurrections were of people back to life again in a human body. When Christ was resurrected, he was raised up by God in a spirit body. He materialized a human form in order to interact with his disciples, but he was not human anymore.

Paul was explaining this to the Christians in Corinth because they had the same eventuality to be a new creation. People prior to Jesus' resurrection did not have that same eventuality. The Bible shows humans are meant to live on the earth. There is no need to live in heaven, because Jehovah and Jesus are going to come here anyway. (Jesus' abode is heaven but he can come here whenever he wants, so can Jehovah.) The whole provision of 144,000 priests and kings to help restore things is a temporary arrangement just like the ancient priesthood was temporary. The "new creation" and "marriage of the Lamb" part will last, it is a way Jehovah can show the Devil and the demons and the faithful angels and humans that humans are not unloved or some lowly junk to throw away. (The Devil made all kinds of accusations in heaven. By taking some of the lowliest of the lowly humans and making them higher than angels, Jehovah shows that He is not partial, and that the youngest in His family are just as loved as the oldest.)

This guarantee and great love of God for all His faithful kids is to be expressed to all humans who want to embrace it, the sacred secret that God will be here on earth with all His kids. It's not necessary to be one of the 144,000 new creation in order to hang out with Jehovah and Jesus.

When Paul was talking about the "third heaven" that's what he meant. Peter helps explain it when he said that in Noah's day "the heavens were destroyed" (the first heavens) meaning the governments of that time. Peter said that soon again "the heavens will be destroyed by fire" (the second heavens) figuratively, when the governments are replaced by God's Kingdom government (which is the third heaven). (2 Peter 3:5-7) Sometimes the word "heaven" can be used figuratively to describe government. It's the Kingdom government that will help make the earth a paradise. Paul said he had a vision where he was "...caught away to the third heaven...caught away into paradise and heard words that cannot be spoken and that are not lawful for a man to say." (2 Corinthians 12:2-4) He was talking about the sacred secret. It wasn't the time to talk about it then, but now it is.

The sacred secret is that everybody who wants to can hang out with God. You don't have to have "the heavenly hope". He's coming here.

That's why it will be Paradise. Because God will be here.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”"

Jesus is the faithful witness. He said "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

EasyPrompt

I believe whatever the context and the overall theme of the Bible and holy spirit makes clear.

20

Is the WT right that the Lamb's marriage is after Armageddon?

by Kosonen in

the wt org claims that the lamb's marriage will happen after armageddon, despite the fact that revelation 19 very clearly says that the lamb's marriage happens after the destruction of babylon the great.

and that after the lamb's marriage he with heavenly armies will go to destroy the wicked.. the wt claims that the order of events in revelation 19 is not really in that order referring to psalm 45. but i can't find in psalm 45 any explicit contradiction to revelation 19. .

paragraph 10 in the following article shows the wt org's view point:.

EasyPrompt

"But reject empty speeches that violate what is holy, for they will lead to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy·me·naeʹus and Phi·leʹtus are among them. These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some."

There were some in the first century that erroneously taught the resurrection of the anointed had already occurred. These men deviated from truth and subverted the faith of others. The GB/FDS have also deviated from the truth by saying the anointed are already being resurrected since 1914 or 1918 or whatever.

Paul said, when talking of the anointed: "Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed."

He tells the order: During the time of the last trumpet (1) the dead anointed will be resurrected and (2) the other anointed will be changed.

These events are not separated by decades of years. They happen together, one right after the other.

When is the last trumpet? Revelation shows the trumpets are sounded during the great tribulation. That hasn't happened yet. The trumpets were not in 1914. None of the 144,000 anointed have been resurrected yet.

The bride all goes to heaven at the same time. The anointed do not go piecemeal. The marriage takes place when the bridegroom brings the bride home and the kingdom is complete. All of the bride, meaning all 144,000. Here is what the scriptures say:

"For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord."

"Together With Them". When it is time for the marriage to take place, Jesus comes and wakes up the dead anointed by resurrecting them. Then the living anointed are changed, and All Together they go into the kingdom arrangement. (Kind of like the Beatles song, "All Together Now" haha.)

When Jesus was resurrected, many people on earth saw him for many days before he went to heaven. The resurrection of the anointed will be the same way. That is why people on earth will be in shock when this event takes place during the latter part of the great tribulation. It will not be a hidden, invisible action. There were witnesses when Jesus went up to heaven in the clouds. It will be the same when the anointed are changed.

Just as Hymenaeus and Alexander taught lies about the resurrection in the first century, so today. The governing body is teaching that the anointed resurrection already happened, and this is subverting the faith of some. The Bible is clear. The anointed are not resurrected until after Jesus becomes king. He didn't become king in 1914. When the anointed are resurrected, there will be witnesses on earth to the event, just like there were many witnesses when Jesus was resurrected. He was resurrected as a spirit creature, but he materialized a human body. The anointed resurrection will be the same way.

"If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection."

The "marriage" of Adam and Eve took place when Jehovah brought them together. There was no fancy formal ceremony. The "marriage of the Lamb" means when all the 144,000 are resurrected and with Jesus and then the battle of Armageddon begins.

A newborn baby doesn't have to ask how to breathe. In an instant, the heart valve switches gears and the lungs take in oxygen instead of getting it through the umbilical cord. It's a miracle. Jehovah knows how to do miracles. The 144,000 will not have to be trained last minute or ask how to fight bad guys at Armageddon and how to save the ones they love. They will already know how to follow the direction of the holy spirit, and they will be motivated to protect their loved ones, whoever Jesus says to save.

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

EasyPrompt

A couple of decades.

30

Were can you find Jesus' witnesses?

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

in the revelation book it talks about jesus' witnesses.

were are true witnesses of jesus, not those who teach that jesus is the almighty god, but really true witnesses of jesus.. this is what the revelation book ways about witnesses of jesus:.

19:10 ..... brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning jesus.

EasyPrompt

Hi, Kosonen!

69

Did Jesus COME with the clouds of heaven in 1914?

by Fisherman in

take for example revelation 21: 10. .

“….and he showed me the holy city jerusalem coming down out of heaven from god.

here john sees something happening, action.

EasyPrompt

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and Luke 21, Jesus is describing events that will take place during the great tribulation.

Some of the things that take place during the great tribulation are going to be really scary and some people might think that no one with faith will survive.

But Jesus says, "Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen," meaning that faithful Christians who are alive when the great tribulation starts would survive the great tribulation even though it's scary and make it to the time at the end of the tribulation when Jesus would come on the clouds and everybody would see him.

When Jesus went up into the clouds, people saw him. People will see him again when he gets here in Kingdom power to fix everything.

The word "generation" has nothing to do with calculating the times and seasons regarding the day and the hour the Kingdom would begin. It also has nothing to do with 1914. Jesus said not to even try to calculate when he would begin ruling in Kingdom power. The phrase that sometimes gets translated "the times of the Gentiles" would be better translated "appointed times of the nations" because another expression for the great tribulation is the appointed times of the nations. Daniel and Revelation show that that great tribulation will be 3 1/2 years long. It will be the time the UN destroys all religious institutions and oppresses people of faith to an extreme degree. The great tribulation is "the appointed times of the nations" to trample true Christians.

Jesus didn't come into Kingdom power in 1914. If that date could have been calculated from the scriptures, then he himself would have known it back when he walked the earth. Instead he said, no man knows the day or the hour the Kingdom would begin, not even him, only the Father.

Just like Jannes and Jambres seemed to do "miracles" that "came true" but they were really fakers and Satan just did tricks, so in a similar way when Russell and the Miller-type people said "1914!" because of numerology-pyramidology-whatever, Satan got in there and did his tricks again to make it seem like that "prophecy" of Russell came true. The book of Job shows the Devil can cause problems like plague-type stuff. The wicked one is called "the ruler of the world" and if he wants to set up a world war like WWI or WWII, certainly he is able. We can all see that Russell and many others from the borg fit the descriptions in 2 Timothy 3:1-5 about those who have a form of godly devotion and prove false to its power. The verses go on to say: "Now in the way that Janʹnes and Jamʹbres opposed Moses, so these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men."

Second Thessalonians 2:9-12 says "But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."

It's not surprising the "lawless ones" would have "powerful work and lying signs." How many people were misled by the 1914 thing? A lot.

But now "their folly" is "very plain to all". It's going to be a lot "plainer to all" when Jehovah's Witnesses as an institution are attacked by the nations at the beginning of the great tribulation. Jehovah will make it plain to everybody that those GB/FDS guys are disapproved.

Jesus didn't take the throne in 1914, but the prophecy in Daniel 11 and 12 shows he will take the throne very soon. When Jesus takes the throne in heaven, the first thing he will do is cast the Devil out of heaven. The Devil will get the UN all riled up to destroy religious people. God will allow all the religious institutions to be destroyed. Individuals will survive, and Jesus will make sure the Christian congregation he founded is refined and restored. People out of all denominations who have the right heart will be gathered together, and then a great crowd of right-hearted people who don't know God will also be gathered, just like a great crowd of Egyptians and others were gathered when it was time to leave Egypt. It's going to be a long 3 1/2 years that the UN will rule. We will need a lot of love for each other. There is so much work to do during the days ahead. Thank God it's Jesus and the angels who will be taking the lead in the congregation instead of any imperfect humans!