Luke 23:43 the NWT

Ade

Luke 23:43 - And Jesus said to him, "Positively I say to you, today you will be with Me in paradise."
NWT places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.
Now the average JW uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

I never really considered this point as a JW, the punctuation used in this verse was used by Jesus on many occasions 76 times in the NT, heres the big hitter to ask your visiting JW or family member. Why is the comma placed there in this verse but in every other instance where Jesus says this phrase the comma comes after the first instance of the word you.

As i read on another site , to render the verse like this is the same as saying "let me tell you the truth, today is was etc etc" we wouldnt say "Let me tell you the truth today, i was etc etc" its pointless and pretty much senseless.

all the best
Ade

Leolaia

I guess Jesus wanted the guy to be really, really sure he was talking to him that particular day. Had he made the request on a Tuesday, Jesus would have given him a totally different answer.

"What day is today? Tuesday? Good. Truly I tell you today, you will be with Judas Iscariot in Gehenna. Sorry, dude, Paradise is open only on Fridays."

Finally-Free

Another thing about that scripture; the "evildoer" Jesus was speaking to was not a follower of Jesus, or baptized, yet Jesus' words indicate they would both be in paradise together. That statement is not affected by the placement of the comma.

W

Deputy Dog

Ade

When the JWs come to my door I don't talk about the "comma". I like to ask them, How does the evil doer get a promise of paradise, without doing any field service or work what so ever?

Ade

Hi Deputy D,
Yup thats quite true, also if hes going to paradise the same day, where is paradise >:)

AuldSoul

I like throwing verse 42 in, for good measure, and asking, "Now, does the evildoer specify when he wants to be remembered?"

Wait for response.

"He wants to be remembered when Jesus gets into his kingdom, right?"

Wait for response.

"Then, where will Jesus be when the evildoer will be with him?"

geevee

Yes, the comma is a smoke screen, employed by hobbyist bible translators [whoever they maybe] to sound like they know what they are talking about. As the evildoer was not a follower of Jesus, there would be no need for christ to talk to him in JW speak. No coded promises, just striaght forward. How would the evildoer who turned to the light side have understood jesus' words? Oh he means that I will be in paradise on earth while he will be in heaven, obviously?!!!! No, i think he would have understood that they would be in each others actual presence in Paradise, which could have only been in one place...that's where Jesus was heading. IMO

Death to the Pixies

Jesus could have been stressing the solemnity of the occasion, as this was not uncommon jewish idiom, see similar words in Deut. 4:26,40...5:1. Probably the NWT was most influenced by one of the oldest Greek MSS which has similar puncuation than the NWT/Rotherham's...as seen below :

alt

The above is the Vatican Manuscript 1209, one of the oldest surviving MSS. It is really just a theological argument, if you tend to believe like the orthodox in regards to after-life, you will place the comma like the orthdox. If you believe the spirit is simply the life-force which animates, you will place it similar to the NWT.

kid-A

This passage nullifies not only the artificial "organizational" corporate guidelines for "Watchtower salvation" but equally slams the hell-fire born-again christians that claim all non-christians will suffer in hell.

Here, Jesus grants salvation to a criminal, a non-christian, non-baptized, non-praying, criminal who, up until that day, had likely never even have heard of his teachings or philosophy. This parable also nullifies baptism (either literal or figural) as a pre-requisite for salvation.

Forscher

Very good catch DP.

I've known about the punctuation in the Vatican manuscript for awhile, but I've never before seen an image of it. thanks!

Forscher

Luke 23:43 the NWT

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