@stanlivedeath - I am being myself, thanks. I will take it under consideration that you don't care for Bible verses, but I can see that there are others here who don't mind. So if I am talking to you specifically, I will do my best to refrain from quoting the Bible out of respect for you. But if we are on an open thread like this one, I will continue to share verses, unless Simon tells me to stop. Since this is his site, I will respect his decision and rules. So far, he hasn't said anything to me about too many scriptures. If that happens, I will know it's time for me to graciously leave, because sharing scriptures is part of who I am.
EasyPrompt
JoinedPosts by EasyPrompt
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65
In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...
by EasyPrompt instill, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.
the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.
do they have to be jws?
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65
In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...
by EasyPrompt instill, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.
the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.
do they have to be jws?
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EasyPrompt
@PetrW
It's not my opinion that counts - it's what God reveals that counts. Other parts of His Word help us understand Revelation.
Time is different in dreams. Revelation is presented as a series of visions. Revelation 8:1 ties the seals in with trumpets that follow. They are tied together. The trumpets, plagues, bowls, all overlap and depict parts of the 3 1/2 years in slightly different ways.
"When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour."
The judgment on false religion and on the secular governments is in answer to the prayers of the holy ones who have been hurt all these years by religion and government. The trumpets in times of old heralded God coming to fight, the execution of God's judgment.
"And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them." (Revelation 8:2)
In ancient times, there was silence at the temple during part of the prayer time. The response in Revelation 8:3-6 shows that the judgments of Revelation are God's response to the cries of the lowly ones who have been oppressed all these years. His response is by first allowing the religious institutions and then later the secular governments to reap the consequences of their hypocrisy and bloodguilt. The plagues show God views those institutions as "sick" in His eyes. The trumpets herald His judgments upon them. The bowls of His anger represent His will being carried out (just as the bowls carried items from God's altar, which represented God's will.)
"Another angel, holding a golden incense vessel, arrived and stood at the altar, and a large quantity of incense was given him to offer it with the prayers of all the holy ones on the golden altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense from the hand of the angel ascended with the prayers of the holy ones before God. But right away the angel took the incense vessel, and he filled it with some of the fire of the altar and hurled it to the earth. And there were thunders and voices and flashes of lightning and an earthquake. And the seven angels with the seven trumpets prepared to blow them."
The trumpets, plagues, bowls all show us that the 3 1/2 year tribulation is in accord with God's will - that He is the One behind the execution of judgment on religious institutions and the corrupt governmental agencies of the world.
(Salvador Dali did a good job of depicting time in a dream-like way...)
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65
In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...
by EasyPrompt instill, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.
the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.
do they have to be jws?
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EasyPrompt
@stanlivedeath, I am an ex-atheist myself. Before I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses I got my degree in anthropology/archaeology and was an ardent preacher of evolutionary theory.
I do appreciate the way you asked regarding not referencing Bible scriptures, so thank you for being polite about it. But I didn't listen to the elder body when they told me to shut up. I know there is a time to speak and a time to keep silent. I kept silent for so long regarding so many things. I am very appreciative to be able to speak here.
I try to avoid threads where I know the scriptures are not as appreciated, but at the same time I have lost my fear of man at this point, so if anybody gets offended and throws an insult my way, I really don't care anymore. I've heard it all already. I have become calloused to extremely abusive speech in other settings, so hearing less-hurtful words here directed my way really doesn't phase me anymore.
But thank you for still talking to me even though we have different belief systems.🙂 I respect your freedom to believe as an atheist even if I don't hold that belief in common with you any more. There are still many things we do have in common, and it's nice to build on those things.🌷
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65
In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...
by EasyPrompt instill, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.
the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.
do they have to be jws?
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EasyPrompt
No, the dreams Joseph interpreted have nothing to do with the time periods discussed in Revelation. The Bible does not imply that they are related. The point of similarity is that some things are literal and some things are figurative. Also that the dreams were repeated in a slightly different way to show the same event from a different angle.
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65
In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...
by EasyPrompt instill, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.
the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.
do they have to be jws?
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EasyPrompt
"The subject of the chronology of Revelation is vast and many areas would need to be addressed."
Genesis 37:5-11
"Later Joseph had a dream and told it to his brothers, and they found further reason to hate him. He said to them: “Please listen to this dream that I had. There we were binding sheaves in the middle of the field when my sheaf got up and stood erect and your sheaves encircled and bowed down to my sheaf.” His brothers said to him: “Are you really going to make yourself king over us and dominate us?” So they found another reason to hate him, because of his dreams and what he said. "
"After that he had still another dream, and he related it to his brothers: “I have had another dream. This time the sun and the moon and 11 stars were bowing down to me.” Then he related it to his father as well as his brothers, and his father rebuked him and said to him: “What is the meaning of this dream of yours? Am I as well as your mother and your brothers really going to come and bow down to the earth to you?” And his brothers grew jealous of him, but his father kept the saying in mind."
Joseph had two dreams, but they meant the same thing. They depicted the same event from two different angles.
In Genesis chapter 40, Joseph interprets the dreams of the baker and the cupbearer.
"So the chief cupbearer related his dream to Joseph, saying to him: “In my dream, there was a vine before me. And on the vine, there were three twigs, and as it was sprouting shoots, it blossomed, and its clusters ripened into grapes. And Pharʹaoh’s cup was in my hand, and I took the grapes and squeezed them out into Pharʹaoh’s cup. After that I put the cup in Pharʹaoh’s hand.”
"Then Joseph said to him: “This is its interpretation: The three twigs are three days. Three days from now, Pharʹaoh will bring you out, restoring you to your office, and you will put Pharʹaoh’s cup into his hand as you did before when you were his cupbearer...
"When the chief baker saw that Joseph had interpreted something good, he said to him: “I too was in my dream, and there were three baskets of white bread on my head, and in the top basket, there were all sorts of baked goods for Pharʹaoh, and there were birds eating them out of the basket on top of my head.”
"Then Joseph answered, “This is its interpretation: The three baskets are three days. Three days from now, Pharʹaoh will behead you and will hang you on a stake, and the birds will eat your flesh from you.”
"Now the third day was Pharʹaoh’s birthday, and he made a feast for all his servants, and he brought out both the chief cupbearer and the chief baker in the presence of his servants. And he returned the chief cupbearer to his post of cupbearer, and he continued to hand the cup to Pharʹaoh. But he hanged the chief baker, just as Joseph had interpreted to them."
Joseph interpreted the dreams by means of God's holy spirit. He said "Do not interpretations belong to God?" Then he explained that the twigs were figurative. The number three was literal. In three days, the cupbearer would return to his position as cupbearer. The baskets of bread were figurative. The number three was literal. In three days the baker would be killed. Both dreams involved three days. They were depicting the same time frame from slightly different angles.
Genesis 41:1-7
"At the end of two full years, Pharʹaoh dreamed that he was standing by the Nile River. And there, coming up from the river, were seven fine-looking, fat cows, and they were feeding on the Nile grass. There were seven other cows that looked ugly and thin coming up after them from the Nile, and they stood alongside the fat cows by the bank of the Nile. Then the ugly, thin cows began to eat up the seven fine-looking, fat cows. At this Pharʹaoh woke up. Then he went back to sleep and had a second dream. There were seven ears of grain coming up on one stalk, full and choice. And growing up after them were seven ears of grain that were thin and scorched by the east wind. And the thin ears of grain began to swallow up the seven full and choice ears of grain. At this Pharʹaoh woke up and realized that it was a dream."
Joseph, by means of God's holy spirit, explained the dreams. The number seven was literal; it meant seven years. The cows were figurative and the wheat was figurative. There would be seven years of plenty and seven years of famine. The dreams were depicting the same event from slightly different angles.
It is the same with Daniel's visions and the visions of Revelation. They are talking about 3 1/2 years ("time times and half a time", "1260 days", "42 months", "a short time".) The years are literal. The plagues, the bowls, the trumpets, are all figurative. They are all depicting the same time frame (execution of God's judgments during that time) from a slightly different angle. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to, but when you see the UN attack all religious institutions you can know that the 3 1/2 years of great tribulation has begun. It is by means of God's holy spirit that these things are revealed.
Daniel 2:29-30
"...the Revealer of secrets has made known to you what is to happen. As for me, this secret was not revealed to me because I have greater wisdom than anyone living; rather, it was to make the interpretation known..."
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65
In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...
by EasyPrompt instill, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.
the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.
do they have to be jws?
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EasyPrompt
"jeesus--ive heard it all now. Angels will be cannibals !"
@stanlivedeath, for angels to be "cannibals" they'd have to be eating angels.
No one said angels would literally be "eating" anybody. It is figurative, meaning the bad guys will be dead, and the angels will take part in making that happen.
"i can understand why you got disfellowshipped. You must have been a sheer joy in your congregation."
How kind of you!😜
For your information, I was still a GB/FDS "worshipper" at the time of my disfellowshipping. I still believed in their false doctrines at that time regarding 1914 and other things. The reason I was disfellowshipped was for telling on abuse in the congregation. The elders said that telling on an elder and warning others in the congregation is "reviling and causing divisions".
(You can read about some of the experience on this link if you want...https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6553089276903424/three-amish-bishops-who-told-woman-rescind-protective-order-against-husband-guilty-intimidation)
It wasn't until after they disfellowshipped me that I began researching and questioning other doctrines of the WTBT$.
Why are you on this site ? I think you've been on here previously.
I've only been coming on any forums since this past year. Why am I here? I don't know. I'm bored. I am married to someone who is still PIMI and it's difficult. We have kids and in order to protect them from the stuff in the congregation we had to take a stand on some things. I won't go into the details, but it's kinda nice to come on here and talk and fool around a little with silly videos and talking about the Bible. I am a homeschooling mom and when I got disfellowshipped I was instantly cut off from everyone I knew. I had been in for over 20 years. I was formerly very active in the congregation and in the ministry so had tons of socialization. Went to almost none in short order when I didn't bow to the elders on the reporting abuse issue. I still have faith in God and the Bible, but I also recognize that just because another person doesn't doesn't make them "bad association". There are a lot of people who claim to have faith in God and the Bible and yet they are "bad association" like that Eric Wilson guy, or Robert King, or Pearl Doxsey, etc. I've learned that quickly since being out of the JWBorg.
Anyway, that's it in a nutshell. Why are you on this site, @stanlivedeath?
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65
In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...
by EasyPrompt instill, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.
the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.
do they have to be jws?
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EasyPrompt
Hi Elmer🙂
There isn't much to tell. Just that Jesus said regarding truth: "You received free; give free" - meaning not to try to make a profit off sharing Bible truth.
Eric Wilson has a niche. He lures those who have recently escaped from the WTBT$ to his "fold" by claiming to be able to offer them something that the WTBT$ "withheld" from them. Then he asks for donations to help his "cause".
Jesus didn't form a 501c non-profit in order to avoid paying taxes. Anyone who does such a thing is compromised when it comes to "selling" truth.
I had the opportunity to speak with Eric via email and he exposed to me his disregard for Christ's direction in several areas, most blatantly as regards collecting money.
Here is some of what he said:
"Doesn’t the Bible say that a worker is worthy of his wages? Didn’t Jesus and the apostles accept donation?"
"If I didn’t receive financial support, just as Jesus and the apostles did, I would not be able to preach the good news to the children of God."
Then he repeatedly told me I was clinging to the WTBT$ teachings and falsely accused me of being a WT sympathizer, kind of like exactly what @AnonyMous kept saying.
Eric likes to say that if the JWs could see that their 1914 doctrine is false, it would undermine a lot of their other false teachings, like the false teaching about the appointment of the FDS in 1919, etc.
Eric's false teachings would also be completely undermined if the 144,000 was a literal number, because most of what he teaches is based his twisting of that part of Revelation. That is why he is trying so hard to hide the light on those verses in Revelation. He would lose his income if the people at Bereoan Pickets knew he was lying about "everybody Christian should partake."
Most churches in Christendom have been partaking of the emblems for a long time, so that's not the issue. For Eric, his niche is former JWs. Most exJWs who are religious don't end up going to a different Christendom church, but many are looking for someplace to fellowship. Eric tempts them by offering women to publicly pray with uncovered heads and saying it's appropriate for everyone to eat the emblems every month. By doing this, he tickles their ears and more people donate to his pocketbook.
The IRS paperwork just shows he filed his group as a tax-exempt entity. Jesus said we should "payback Caesar's things to Caesar" and not try to get out of it. Eric is sketchy, and it's not right for him to take advantage of people who have just gotten out of another cult and then ensnare them in a different cult. We should follow Jesus, not any imperfect man.
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Mandated Shunning is a Crime
by Lee Marsh inmandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.
shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.
mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.
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EasyPrompt
The JWBorg also does not have a public trial. In Bible times, justice was handled in the "city gate" where others could observe and make sure things weren't done in a sketchy way.
When the JWBorg elders announce "so-and-so is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses" the elders make themselves into slanderers. Only God can say whether or not a person is one of His witnesses. There are many who have been "disfellowshipped" by a JW judicial committee where the person still considered themself a witness of Jehovah.
For the elders to attempt to enforce shunning of a person based on an illegal verdict and then for them to claim it is scriptural is fraudulent and a bold lie. When the elders or WTBT$ Legal Department guys tell the courts that their "disfellowshipping doctrine is scriptural" the elders/WTBT$ are lying to the courts. They are committing perjury and are liable to the consequences that come from misrepresenting God while under oath.
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65
In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...
by EasyPrompt instill, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.
the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.
do they have to be jws?
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EasyPrompt
(On second thought, @AnonyMous, maybe you should stay away from "holy hand grenades" since you have issues with numbers...😂)
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65
In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...
by EasyPrompt instill, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.
the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.
do they have to be jws?
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EasyPrompt
Hey, @AnonyMous, where'd you go?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsSlXGKearg
Maybe next time you should use the "holy hand grenade"! Lol!!! 😆