Posts by TheLiberator

12

The Freedom to Learn

by TheLiberator in

since i have left the watchtower's dung behind, reading and learning has accelerated at an unbelievable pace for me.

i am sure that is true for most here.

i have always been a big time reader.

As my post stated, I am still a Christian. My fairh has been strengthen. When you are a Watchtower slave, no need to look anywhere else. My point being, that this place has simplified things as far as what to research. It is so easy to get swept up into naturalism, which is different than science. But when you peel back and dig through what has been accepted by pop culture, you find quite a different story. Even I had never heard of the Jesus/Horus story. Now I literally laugh. Bart Ehrman is another one. By means of careful words he misleads people to draw a conclusion that simply isn't true. It might be technically true, but that is where the devil is. That is the pattern I see when it comes to many lines of thought. Technically true, but not the whole story and that includes the points Cofty has outlined. People go out of the way, spending there whole lives trying to disprove a Creator and the Bible. That speaks volumes. Christianity is such an evidence based faith like no other. I feel it is the most reasonable of the worldviews. What I am finding, is that studying these things has lead to using critical thinking skills on a higher level, due to what I said about pop culture. No need to be fearful of studying any subject. If a person wants to, they can shut out all the"noise" that we are bombarded with, and draw the same conclusion. The Watchtower never gave me the faith I have today.

7

Moment of awakening?

by Freeandclear in

i just recalled something from my past that i've not thought about in a very long time, but it did have a significant impact on me whether i knew it or not at the time....... i have a sister who was born when i was 15. my family are not jw's thank the universe!

but me as an uberdub at the time convinced my young sister to have a study.

she was about 14 or 15 at the time i'd guess.

TheLiberator

I enjoyed the program "The Amish", on the Discovery Channel. I loved how the one man assisted them to escape. It really captured how there world was the only world they knew. It was always a passing thought for me, about how perhaps I was in a similar situation. "Maybe I can't see beyond the umbrella. Maybe I haven't really experienced life. Maybe my reality is not reality." I would quickly dismiss this idea, thinking that our situation is different. However, every time I watched that show, the same thought would come to mind.

That thought, more than I realise, actually planted a deep seed. And when I finally woke up, that program came to mind.

14

what era do you feel like your starting out from?

by sowhatnow in

jw
friends

anyone else feel like they were just woke up from a long coma?

or emerged from a time capsule?.

i mean seriously, its rather creepy and disturbing , some of us are at sea without a compass .. like an orphan, like someone said, , heres a birth certificate go find yourself.

TheLiberator

I agree with the catch up thing. I try not to over think it. To say I never experienced life at all, is just not true. Even though I may feel that way at times.

Yes, when I left my heart to stone. It was the darkest time of my life. Didn't know what to think or feel. My former friends abandoned me. My mom stopped seeing and talking to me. Was unsure of my wife and kids reaction. I was heart broken. Then, a scripture came to mind. I forgot the exact details other than a blind man being thrown out of the synagogue. So I looked it up. Here is what it says. I felt Jesus was speaking to me. Afterall, he knows the motivations as to why I left.
John: 9: 34-37: They answered him, "You were altogether born in sins, and do you teach us?" They threw him out. Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and finding him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of God?" He answered, "Who is he, Lord, that I may believe in him?" Jesus said to him, "You have both seen him, and it is he who speaks with you."
Jesus heard he was thrown out. This was important to Jesus. That is why he sought out the man. He knew the heart of the man. That was the beginning of my spiritual journey out of the Watchtower. I do not feel lost anymore. Psalm: 26:12- "My foot stands in an even place. In the congregations I will bless Yahweh."

12

The Freedom to Learn

by TheLiberator in

since i have left the watchtower's dung behind, reading and learning has accelerated at an unbelievable pace for me.

i am sure that is true for most here.

i have always been a big time reader.

TheLiberator

Since I have left the Watchtower's dung behind, reading and learning has accelerated at an unbelievable pace for me. I am sure that is true for most here. I have always been a big time reader. But now it is an unsatiable thirst. When I was little, I would appreciate a four page article in the Awake! "proving" a creator. I put that in quotes because as I grew older, those four pages never changed. Same reasoning, little science, no detail. My mind needed more. Much, much more. I was sick of the watchmaker story!!
Philosophy was always condemned in the Watchtower. But little did I know about the value of much of it. While I don't run with all of it, I realize that even for a Christian, it can help you reason on things that seem beyond the grasp of humans. It does have it's place. Some of it is very logical.
The Watchtower is as shallow as vomit on the floor. I look through recent magazines just to contemplate the sheer emptiness of it. I get so depressed just thinking about how I accepted it.
When I first read comments on here, I was very enraged with atheists, anti-theists, Bible bashers and so on. It took time for me to adjust. Why not just leave if I hated such talk? Well, unknowingly, it was this environment that turned me into a madman researcher. It moved me to do deeper research. The Watchtower was shallow on EVERY SUBJECT. Whether that be creation, Bible canon, even there own doctrine. I would never allow myself to retreat to such emptiness again. A quick Google search on page 1 would not satisfy me.
This forum has really simplified things for me. Take evolution for example. I did want to research this with honesty. But where would I start? Which book would bring me satisfying answers to my questions? I need detail, not generalizations. I needed more than a simple biology book that describes the basics of evolution. I needed more. Much much more. What has helped me in this regard? Thank you Cofty. I have saved his posts on my phone. He has really done a good job in simplifying the whole thing. I believe if you just study each point, you will have a good picture of what it is all about. I have used each point to further my research. And I am not done. No, I do not use National Geographic as my source for study. I study many of the actual research papers. Then I read the many comments that people share on these sites. I then study the counter arguments in detail. This allows me to dive below the surface of what is being said. And I am absolutely amazed at what I have learned. Classic creation sites are not my sources for study. I use them, to learn there side and then research that.
What I have learned, and I will admit is that Christianity has needed to catch up on what is happening in society. They have needed to catch up on so much of the science of our day. Why have they needed to catch up? It is because not too long ago people in general accepted the Bible as true. Science has accelerated at such a rapid pace just in recent times, that Christianity logically had to catch up with this. But the Watchtower never went beyond itself and its childlike reasoning on matters. But so many Christian apologetics have helped us to catch up on so many things. But even when it comes to these sources, I will not accept generalizations. I do believe that people's misunderstandings about things, makes them look like fools. I don't care if someone believes in evolution or they believe in creation. Both sides have those people that are shallow minded and they don't want to grasp the the understanding of the other side.
To put it simply, being out of the Watchtower and being able to have the freedom to read sites like this has caused my mind to explode with so much knowledge. In fact I have learned so much in the last year that it truly has become like a "burning fire" that I want to share with people. Especially those people in the Watchtower. I want them to know that there is so much out here and there is so much detail that they are lacking.
And so I just wanted to thank everyone for everything that they share on this site. Whether that information is something I immediately agree with or not. Each point has become a starting point for me in my journey to learn more. I have never felt so free.

36

Faith, where now?

by Theburstbubble in

so for the first time ever i went to a church service at my local church (coe) and i have to say it was awful!

it was just like a ritual.

the vicar would say something and then the congregation would all say a phrase in unison back to him.

TheLiberator

That is exactly right.

36

Faith, where now?

by Theburstbubble in

so for the first time ever i went to a church service at my local church (coe) and i have to say it was awful!

it was just like a ritual.

the vicar would say something and then the congregation would all say a phrase in unison back to him.

TheLiberator

I personally was looking for a group of Bible students that was family like and serious students of the Bible. My friend indirectly introduced me to a group just like that. The core beliefs we have in common. Conscience matters are left as that. Today, I gave a "talk". I came up with the subject matter. The talk was more of a discussion as I intermingled questions throughout, and that allowed everyone to share there thoughts. We take breaks and have snacks. It seems to draw witnesses. If you take a look at the website and it's affiliate, you can see why.

http://www.scatteredbrethren.org

http://www.focusonthekingdom.org

20

Being Positive around family that are still in.

by freddo in

jw
friends

if you are a fader or you have reduced activity markedly - say resigned as a pioneer or an elder or ms or gone inactive and still have some relationship with your immediate family or spouse - how do you stay positive around them when you feel like shaking them out of their stupor but believe deep down it would be counter productive?.

thoughts from all most welcome..

TheLiberator

I just take interest in my wife's activities. I ask her if there were a lot of people at the meetings. I ask who she worked with in service. And every now and then, I ask how so and so is doing. I just keep things lite and positive. She's happy and so i must accept this and it makes my life easier.

1

Common mistake of almost all religions

by elbib in

common mistake of almost all religions is that they presented religious founders with superhuman abilities.

they thought people would care for one another if someone with superhuman abilities told them to be good.

this has been proved wrong repeatedly because people would feel ‘he can say whatever he feels like, he is superhuman whereas we are puny human beings.’ it is like gold trying to inspire iron saying: ‘look at me, and learn from me: i never rust out.’ on the contrary, if an iron piece remains intact, this can inspire other iron pieces..

TheLiberator

Totally agree with what you are saying. A church or study group should be just a group of people that are simply and sincerely trying to understand the scriptures.

On YouTube, spike r had a video that has really made me ponder after I left. The key point was that as humans, we always think someone else must have special knowledge. Publishers look to elders. Elders to co's, and it goes on and on. We do this in many areas of life. The gb are just like you and I. No visions. No voices. Just opinions.

It is strange to contemplate how as witnesses we would ask how does the gb know what to write? What happens at there meetings? We acted like it was supernatural. Then we suspended this thought, and moved on thinking everything is from Jehovah. But of course, tv.org has revealed them as not only human, but psychopaths.

150

Evolution: The Deal Breaker

by Hadriel in

first off i do believe there are some evidences of evolution or i should probably say adaptation.

i do believe this exists in various forms.. however the deal breaker for me with evolution is the chick or egg problem.

there are tons of theories that get passed around as proof of evolution however these are usually examples much further down the evolutionary chain.. what i mean is let's start at the beginning!

TheLiberator

Cofty, have you read your own comments? "Science of the gaps" is more appropriate. You are just a puppet of the system that parrots everything. "God of the gaps", "evolution is a fact", "fundamentalism", "creationism"....this is nothing but loaded language. Millions of people reject all the nonsense you spew out for good reason.

150

Evolution: The Deal Breaker

by Hadriel in

first off i do believe there are some evidences of evolution or i should probably say adaptation.

i do believe this exists in various forms.. however the deal breaker for me with evolution is the chick or egg problem.

there are tons of theories that get passed around as proof of evolution however these are usually examples much further down the evolutionary chain.. what i mean is let's start at the beginning!

TheLiberator

Hadriel: Just so you guys know I believe it to be rather convenient to not want to concede that because you can't explain the driver or abiogenesis that somehow it doesn't matter

Yes. You got that right. "Abiogenesis" is that magic word that turns a "nice" evolutionist into a bipolar monkey.

Evolution is irrelevant. Abiogenesis is the real issue. Have you read comments from those who believe in evolution and try to explain possibilities of abiogenesis? They remind me of junior high students who have an answer for EVERYTHING. Oh, and they remind of the Watchtower...apparently... most likely...obviously.. without a doubt... Evolution/ Abiogenesis theories is a book that you make up as it goes along. Such ones are in a bubble. The idea that nothing exists beyond your physical eyes is the essence of close mindedness.

God being the beginning is natural. We are hard wired to believe in a higher power that started the whole process. That is what verse 19 is all about.

Romans: 1: 19. because that which is known of God is revealed in them, for God revealed it to them. 20. For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse."

Those words bring chills to me everytime. So powerful. So authoritive. So definitive. So natural.