Hi, All--I was just wondering, since there is emphasis on counting your witnessing hours in the JWs, if they indeed count their time here and in other chat forums? I happened to check the JWs own chat forum, and it is closed to non-members. I thought that it was interesting that they are free to come here, but we are not free to go there to discuss the bible. Isn't that what they desire to do? I'm assuming that they keep non-members out of their forums because they are "protecting" the flock.
LauraLynn
JoinedPosts by LauraLynn
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Just Curious: Do JWs Count Their Time Spent in Chat Forums "Witnessing?"
by LauraLynn inhi, all--i was just wondering, since there is emphasis on counting your witnessing hours in the jws, if they indeed count their time here and in other chat forums?
i happened to check the jws own chat forum, and it is closed to non-members.
i thought that it was interesting that they are free to come here, but we are not free to go there to discuss the bible.
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How the JWs Handle a Member Visiting Another Church: What Is Your Experience?
by LauraLynn ini grew up a jw but my parents were not regularly attending services at a kh.
they used to, and were thoroughly indoctrinated though.
as is the jws habit of visiting non-attenders, 2 sisters came to my mom and dad's door one day to inquire of our well-being.
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LauraLynn
NotFormer--
Yes, there is always this fear, either of being shunned or disfellowshipped. For me, though, I was so brainwashed that I was, even a couple years after I left, afraid to visit another church--but not afraid of JWs--I then was afraid I was going to anger Jehovah God. I remember the first time I went to a Christian church I kept worrying that God would strike me dead or something. Maybe that was just me and my young age, but the cult-like control they have over members is pretty extensive. It's like any unhealthy religion that equates displeasing or disobeying their leaders as disobeying God. I had to be deprogrammed and taught what the bible actually teaches--not their twisted explanations and translation. So thankful to be out!
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How the JWs Handle a Member Visiting Another Church: What Is Your Experience?
by LauraLynn ini grew up a jw but my parents were not regularly attending services at a kh.
they used to, and were thoroughly indoctrinated though.
as is the jws habit of visiting non-attenders, 2 sisters came to my mom and dad's door one day to inquire of our well-being.
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LauraLynn
I grew up a JW but my parents were not regularly attending services at a KH. They used to, and were thoroughly indoctrinated though. As is the JWs habit of visiting non-attenders, 2 sisters came to my mom and dad's door one day to inquire of our well-being. My mom told them that she had been witnessing to a co-worker who was from Elmbrook Church (back when Stuart Briscoe was lead pastor and on TV). After pleasantries were said, the sisters left.
The following week, 3 elders from our local KH came to the door. After greetings, the lead elder stated that these 2 sisters had reported that my mom had visited Elmbrook Church! How the story got so twisted, I do not know. But this lead elder started sputtering that visiting another "worldly" church was grounds for disfellowshipping, and that my mom should not do it again.
My mom explained that she did not visit another church, but that the fella she was witnessing to was from Elmbrook Church. After cross-examining her about how she even knew of such a church, she said that she did because they were on TV every Sunday morning. It was obvious the elders did not believe her, and my dad finally came to the door and told them to leave.
So, I am assuming that they were "marked" somehow, as no one from the KH ever came back again. The only contact they had with the JWs after that was that an elder would try to visit my dad in the hospital to remind him about the rule against blood transfusions, not to find out how he was doing! Sigh.
How about you guys? What has been your experience in situations like this?
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Is 1st Century advice on marriage still relevant in today’s modern world?
by liam inrepublicans want to make a law that forbids ‘uncontested divorce”.
they based this on this scripture.. matthew 19. is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”.
4 “haven’t you read,” jesus replied, “that at the beginning the creator ‘made them male and female,’and said, ‘for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ so they are no longer two, but one flesh.
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LauraLynn
Republicans want to make it illegal or at least much harder to obtain a no-fault divorce because they see it as harmful to society in that it undermines the sanctity of marriage and the family. I agree that divorce in general does this and that Jesus' teaching on marriage and all His teachings are still relevant today.
HOWEVER, the error the republicans are making is that they view the U.S. as a historically Christian nation as if it were in a convenant with God like Israel was in the OT. They presume that they then must influence the government to enact laws based on their religious beliefs. This then forces people who do not have faith to obey a God they do not know. The U.S. is NOT a theocracy. Forcing people to obey moral laws they do not believe obtains a sort of conformity in society, but does not have the power to change a person's heart. It's a legalistic attempt to conform a person's behavior. The person may have outward obedience, but there will be resentment and no inward transformation on their part.
Paul writes in this way: "Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man..." [Eph 6:5–7]
It is interesting that slavery is mentioned in this post as an ill to be dealt with in society. Paul speaks here of slaves, but ALSO their believing masters in the next couple verses: "Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him." [Eph 6:9]
Jesus DID teach and preach against the root cause of slavery, pride: "And Jesus called them to him and said to them, "You know that those who are considered rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. But it shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be slave of all. For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."" [Mar 10:42–45]
I'd also like to argue that Jesus' preached and taught against a greater evil than physical slavery. He taught that we are all in spiritual slavery to sin, and that only He can make us free: "Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." [Jhn 8:34–36] True faith in Christ transforms a person on the inside. All other religions try to conform a person from the outside.
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Holding a grudge
by LongHairGal ini read something recently on reddit (not sure what thread) where a person related how some jw told them that ‘they hold a grudge’.. this reminded me of something an old jw acquaintance said to me some years back when i related my bad experience in the religion.. so, apparently, jehovah’s witnesses feel they should be forgiven for anything.
people should forget all about it and act like nothing happened and be charitable towards them, etc… when i read in james and ephesians i got the sense ‘holding a grudge’ was referring to the things average people do to offend each other.. i don’t see it applying to a religion that claimed to speak for god and who engendered hateful and unchristian attitudes towards people.. i know because i experienced this.. in addition, some people’s lives were damaged by listening to faulty teachings and interference in things that were clearly none of anybody’s business.. one case in point: them knocking worldly careers and now there are thousands of destitute jws in senior years with nothing.. then in 2023 the religion does away with a century old teaching about counting hours in the ministry.
meanwhile, i got judged over this.
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LauraLynn
LongHairGal
Hi--I am so sorry for causing you to feel I was intruding on your post. I am new to the forum here so did not realize the etiquette. I will most certainly start a new post. Please forgive me!
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Holding a grudge
by LongHairGal ini read something recently on reddit (not sure what thread) where a person related how some jw told them that ‘they hold a grudge’.. this reminded me of something an old jw acquaintance said to me some years back when i related my bad experience in the religion.. so, apparently, jehovah’s witnesses feel they should be forgiven for anything.
people should forget all about it and act like nothing happened and be charitable towards them, etc… when i read in james and ephesians i got the sense ‘holding a grudge’ was referring to the things average people do to offend each other.. i don’t see it applying to a religion that claimed to speak for god and who engendered hateful and unchristian attitudes towards people.. i know because i experienced this.. in addition, some people’s lives were damaged by listening to faulty teachings and interference in things that were clearly none of anybody’s business.. one case in point: them knocking worldly careers and now there are thousands of destitute jws in senior years with nothing.. then in 2023 the religion does away with a century old teaching about counting hours in the ministry.
meanwhile, i got judged over this.
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LauraLynn
Hi, Vienne!
Thank you for clarifying. It is my understanding that the JWs teach soul sleep--that a person who has died is in an unconscious state until God decides whether or not He will resurrect them based on how they've lived their life. If they aren't chosen to be resurrected, or passed over, then they will continue in a state of unconsciousness forever. If that is not right, please correct me.
But the bible clearly teaches that all people will be resurrected: "having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust." [Act 24:15] And also Jesus himself said: "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." [Jhn 5:28–29 ESV]
The bible also shows us that the dead are not in a state of unconscious sleep, but very much aware of their state: "And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'" [Luk 16:24] This entire parable is related in Luke 16:19-31. The apostle Paul said this: "So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil." [2Co 5:6–10 ESV]
And then in Revelation, John sees the souls of saints who have been martyred under the altar in heaven: "When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"" [Rev 6:9–10 ESV]
Can you see how from these scriptures that the dead are conscious--that they can suffer pain, be present with the Lord, and cry out?
Hope to chat with you more!
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Holding a grudge
by LongHairGal ini read something recently on reddit (not sure what thread) where a person related how some jw told them that ‘they hold a grudge’.. this reminded me of something an old jw acquaintance said to me some years back when i related my bad experience in the religion.. so, apparently, jehovah’s witnesses feel they should be forgiven for anything.
people should forget all about it and act like nothing happened and be charitable towards them, etc… when i read in james and ephesians i got the sense ‘holding a grudge’ was referring to the things average people do to offend each other.. i don’t see it applying to a religion that claimed to speak for god and who engendered hateful and unchristian attitudes towards people.. i know because i experienced this.. in addition, some people’s lives were damaged by listening to faulty teachings and interference in things that were clearly none of anybody’s business.. one case in point: them knocking worldly careers and now there are thousands of destitute jws in senior years with nothing.. then in 2023 the religion does away with a century old teaching about counting hours in the ministry.
meanwhile, i got judged over this.
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LauraLynn
vienne
Hi. Just curious about what basic doctrine of the JWs you agree with?
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Holding a grudge
by LongHairGal ini read something recently on reddit (not sure what thread) where a person related how some jw told them that ‘they hold a grudge’.. this reminded me of something an old jw acquaintance said to me some years back when i related my bad experience in the religion.. so, apparently, jehovah’s witnesses feel they should be forgiven for anything.
people should forget all about it and act like nothing happened and be charitable towards them, etc… when i read in james and ephesians i got the sense ‘holding a grudge’ was referring to the things average people do to offend each other.. i don’t see it applying to a religion that claimed to speak for god and who engendered hateful and unchristian attitudes towards people.. i know because i experienced this.. in addition, some people’s lives were damaged by listening to faulty teachings and interference in things that were clearly none of anybody’s business.. one case in point: them knocking worldly careers and now there are thousands of destitute jws in senior years with nothing.. then in 2023 the religion does away with a century old teaching about counting hours in the ministry.
meanwhile, i got judged over this.
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LauraLynn
LV101
Wow, I did not realize the extent of social control among the JWs! To the point of where you buy your clothes and how much you spend and a CO only approving of low-heeled pumps. I attended in the early 80s, but I was also pretty young, in my late teens, so maybe these things escaped my notice. I have to laugh at your "not happenin' in my world" attitude--the CO must have been a little irked with your nonconformity! I admire that. The thing with the JWs is that everything is about outward comformity. There is no inward change of heart or motivation to do things out of love. It is all a matter of being fed what is "right" and "wrong" so that you are programmed to their faulty doctrine, and a person is conditioned to react to the perceived right or wrong. No love, care, or concern...just rules, rules, rules. I am SO, SO thankful to have left when I did...
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Does this pretty much sum it all up?
by Tahoe injehovah witnesses are hypocrites and false prophets who are conning themselves.
jehovah’s witnesses, a christian denomination/cult known for their distinct beliefs and practices, have long faced scrutiny and criticism.
while they present themselves as a cohesive and morally stringent group, numerous inconsistencies and instances of hypocrisy have been noted both by outsiders and former members.
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LauraLynn
I found this interesting article on the JWs recent efforts to merge into the Kingdom Hall Trust over in the UK: https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/news/charity-s-assets-grow-20-fold-in-three-years-to-222m-as-multiple-mergers-complete.html This article has a link to another merger article as well. While the JWs frame this move as an effort to relieve the burdens on local elders, it sure does rather look like a lucrative fiscal move that solidifies their image as a capitalist cult.
As far as their failed predictions go, this also proves how false the GB is. The bible says that failed prophecies are a sign of a false prophet, not to mention their changing stance on many topics like blood transfusions and relabeling being disfellowshipped to "removal from the congregation" (as if the wordplay really matters). They keep claiming "new light" when they get things wrong or have to capitulate for legal & financial reasons.
The WTBTS is a lot like the religious leaders in Jesus' day who were oh so careful to tithe even their herbs and spices, being careful to follow all their man-made rules, but neglected the weightier matters of justic and mercy and faithfulness. Jesus repeatedly called them hypocrites, too. (see Matthew 23).
The practice of shunning is just one of many forms of social control they use to try to conform everybody to the ideal JW. It is all outward pressure on an individual, instead of an inward movtive to love God and your neighbor.
I have been thinking how grateful I am to be out of this cult--so much harm and heartache goes on within and without the walls of a KH! Great summary, Tahoe. Thank you.
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Holding a grudge
by LongHairGal ini read something recently on reddit (not sure what thread) where a person related how some jw told them that ‘they hold a grudge’.. this reminded me of something an old jw acquaintance said to me some years back when i related my bad experience in the religion.. so, apparently, jehovah’s witnesses feel they should be forgiven for anything.
people should forget all about it and act like nothing happened and be charitable towards them, etc… when i read in james and ephesians i got the sense ‘holding a grudge’ was referring to the things average people do to offend each other.. i don’t see it applying to a religion that claimed to speak for god and who engendered hateful and unchristian attitudes towards people.. i know because i experienced this.. in addition, some people’s lives were damaged by listening to faulty teachings and interference in things that were clearly none of anybody’s business.. one case in point: them knocking worldly careers and now there are thousands of destitute jws in senior years with nothing.. then in 2023 the religion does away with a century old teaching about counting hours in the ministry.
meanwhile, i got judged over this.
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LauraLynn
LongHairGal,
Hi, again. I was wondering if you ever considered that your supposed "grudge" is just common sense--why give to an organization that teaches you shouldn't work or person who refuses to work? I think that your answer to your friend was smart and it put up boundaries for you as a protection. I am thinking the "friend" was trying to make you feel guilty for standing up for yourself. What is sad is that your friend's reaction was immediately defending the organization without any empathy toward you. Please don't believe her accusation--JWs are so programmed to respond like this!
I was also encouraged to pioneer instead of work, as I was graduating from high school and they saw a soft target. A district overseer's wife saw the opportunity and took me under her wing (so I thought). This was around 1982. She was a full-time pioneer, and started a bible study with me (probably because it counted toward her pioneering hours!). I grew very fond of her and looked up to her like an older sister in many ways. About a year later she cut me off, saying that her husband noted that I took up too much of her time at the KH and she wasn't able to "mingle" as an overseer's wife should. I was only 17 and I was heartbroken. But it was one of the things that led me to leave the organization, so even though it was painful, it eventually led to something good--to freedom from their cult.
It sounds like your friend could have disappointed you very much, too? As far as forgiving their organization/religion, I tend to agree--they are teaching a false gospel, and as such God will judge them severely for leading people astray from a simple childlike faith in Jesus. The Bible actually calls false teachers accursed!
You were also following your good instincts when you did not give up your job. I have experienced being shunned as well, albeit for different reasons. It really stinks to high heaven when you are going through it. In my case, I came to the conclusion that if these people are what God is like, I want nothing to do with God. Did you ever feel that way? The JWs leave such a bad impression on religion in general that I threw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.