Posts by SamTheGinge

37

How does an elder become an elder ?

by Drwho in

i was never a jw , so have millions of questions .

please, how does an elder become an elder and how much trust does or should a jw put in an elder .?

simon.

SamTheGinge

For me, personally, I've seen both good, and bad elders. I've seen many a good man that have tried to climb the Witness version of the corporate ladder to reach the almighty position of Elder, and quite a few made it I have to say.

Interestingly for me though was the change in them after they got there. The guy's who would be the first to put their hand in their pocket to buy a round in at the pub were now the ones who would beat you over the head with a stick for staying out past midnight on a Saturday. The same guy who was earning a good wage as a salesman was now the guy telling people not to put secualr work first and to strive for spiritual goals, rather than secular.The guy telling people not watch violent movies, or play violent video games, was the same guy who a week before was telling people how much fun he had playing Grand Theft Auto.

My Dad is an Elder, and has been for nigh on 25 years, and I saw the change in him almost instantly. The things I used to get away with I no longer could (or should have in the first instance), I had to be whiter than white. I admit that when I was younger I wanted to be like him, but after seeing what it does to people I soon gave that ambition up.

24

Shunning & separation from family

by CJxfarmx in

i was raised in jw as a child.

my dad was a jw my mom was not, they are divorced now.

i was never baptized or anything but i stopped going once i had the choice at age 12. now i am 41 and my dad will not associate with me, my wife or my 3 kids.

SamTheGinge

I find that a terrible thing Stan. It's a tragic thing really, and how do they explain this to their children about why they can't speak, or have anything to do with, their granparent(s)?

I have, as many of you will have, many different stories around people who have been Df'd and how it has affected their families. One example I have was when I was still a Witness in Yorkshire and an Elders son was Df'd and was trying to get reinstated, which he did in the end. The Elders son had two young children and they would also go to the meetings, but as soon as they got there they would go an sit with their grandad and sit on his knee and play a little. I questioned this with my dad about how this was possible, and his reply was, quite fairly, that althought the dad was Df'd, the kids weren't, so why should they miss out on having a relationship with their granparents through something that wasn't their fault?

I have to say that, as some may know already, my dad is still Eder to this day and he will still ask for pictures of my children and how they are getting on and so on and so forth. He asks vis my girlfriend, and ex wife, and Iw ouldn't ever think about not letting him see them as it's not their fault that their dad doesn't want to be a Witness again. If my two eldest children decide that want to put Jehovah first then that will be their choice to make, for now I will make sure they know that I am not a bad dad and that I am still a good person even though I don't follow the 'Truth'.

I hope Stan, that as the kids get older, they will want to get to know you and find out your side of the story.

24

Shunning & separation from family

by CJxfarmx in

i was raised in jw as a child.

my dad was a jw my mom was not, they are divorced now.

i was never baptized or anything but i stopped going once i had the choice at age 12. now i am 41 and my dad will not associate with me, my wife or my 3 kids.

SamTheGinge

It is quite a baffling, especially to people out side of the 'Truth'. I try and explain to them, but they don't understand, but how can they? It's alien to them how someone could shun their children like that.

I have 3 kids myself, 2 of them live live with their mother who is still attending meetings and has since re-married to a good Christian boy. My kids with her are aged 6 & 8 and I see them every other weekend with no issues, but how long before they're old enough to know my situation and are told by the Elders, or Step dad, that they should be having no contact with me? I'm waiting for it to happen, and I won't be surprised when/if it does. That doesn't make it any less scary for me to think about. I can't imagine not having anything to do with them, and at what cost to them in the long term? I'm in no way a bad person, or dad I'd like to think but, because I don't follow the same path as their mother or step dad, they should have no contact with me. It may be that it never does come to that, I hope not, but like I said, I won't be surprised.

I'm terribly for you to have to go through 30 years thinking your dad doesn't care for you when, all along, it was the 'Truth' that 'made' him do it.

They call themselves a loving organisation, but what loving organisation does that to their own kids?

25

Entertainment: What's everybody reading or into right now?

by schnell in

i picked up bernard cornwell's the pagan lord at the library.

historical fiction set in england after the death of alfred the great.

i'm loving it, especially the between-the-lines wit and sense of timing in cornwell's writing, and the complete badassery of the protagonist.

SamTheGinge

I never let the WT decide what I could, or couldn't watch, to be honest. But I enjoy reading, and I am enjoying books by Ken Follett at the minute, I have recently finished a book of his called Eye of the Needle and I have just started a new one called Fall of Giants. Very good books.

As for TV, I am watching Once Upon A Time on Netflix at the moment. It's good piece of TV to get lost in for an hour. Not earth shattering or anything like that, but it'll do to wile away the time!

24

Shunning & separation from family

by CJxfarmx in

i was raised in jw as a child.

my dad was a jw my mom was not, they are divorced now.

i was never baptized or anything but i stopped going once i had the choice at age 12. now i am 41 and my dad will not associate with me, my wife or my 3 kids.

SamTheGinge

CJxfarmx

I too know what you're going through. I was Df'd around 12 years ago now and my dad, who is an elder, has very little (if any) contact with me. Having been brought up as Witness I knew what to expect from my dad, and still recall his parting words the last time we properly spoke "You do realise that we won't be able to speak from now on? Not unless something serios happens to either one of us". Fine words to leave your eldest son on eh?

Saying that, it never rankled with me as I knew how it would be, I just carried on as normal and lived my life without the constraints of having to live up to someone organisations exacting standards. I'm all the happier for it, and I think that it's my dads loss rather than mine. He has to go through his life knowing that it is HIM who isn't speaking to ME, and he has to explain that on a regualr basis to my non-believing family members. Many an uncomfortable conversation he has had with them I can tell you! ;-)

22

Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

by UnshackleTheChains in

how many witnesses are aware that technically, according to watchtower policy, they can if they wish too...associate with dissociated and disfellowshipped relatives.

for all those who are dissociated or disfellowshipped, please share this with your relatives who are currently shunning you.

there is nothing the elders can do as long as they are not discussing spiritual matters.

SamTheGinge

I haven't properly spoken to my Dad for over 12 years now, just the passing comment here and there, since I was Df'd, it's the same situation with a friend of mine. However there is another friend who is also Df'd still has regular with his parents who are still serving Witnesses. I accept my position, the same as I did when I got Df'd, I knew exactly how it would be. The one thing though, that I find unacceptable, is the scenarion above whereby my friend and I are shunned, but another friend of mine isn't with no discernible consequences.

Saying that though my sister, who was born and raised a JW and no longer practices, was never baptised and now celebrates nigh on everything under the sun, is not shunned by my Dad or other Witnesses. I would have thought, though, that someone who's life was spent as Witness and therefore knows the 'rights and wrongs' would be equally as shunned as I?

It's seemingly OK to be brought up as Witness and spend your life being indocrined into the religion so it seeps through your very core, to then turn away and do everything a Witness shouldn't do, and not be shunned because you weren't baptised.

21

My Story

by SamTheGinge in

jw
friends

so, i joined just yesterday after coming across this forum looking at beth sarim, and i though that i would share my story with you.

it will no doubt be very similar to a lot of others, but it's a way of getting to know me at least.. i was brought up as witness from the age of 4 years old, my dad picked up the 'truth' from one of his friends in the pub and it seemed to go from there, he would quickly get baptised and progress to becoming a ministerial servant and then an elder.

from a young age i wanted to be like my dad and become a pioneer, a ministerial servant and then an elder... perhaps even becoming a co. the world, spiritually speaking, was my oyster.

SamTheGinge

Thanks stuckinarut2,

That's not something I'd ever really considered. I think that where being shunned is so 'normal' to me I just treat is a normal, and I have a "Oh well, that's just the way it is" attitude.

The thing is, I think my Dad would love to talk to me, but he's that entrenched with the JW's that he couldn't bring himself to do it.

If I could leave you with a prime example of what he could be like with me, and this is in no way meant as a slight on him (I still respect him hugely for what he's had to deal with in the past, but that's another story). When my 1st wife left me I was devastated, as you'd expect (both my wife and I were practicing JW's at the time) and she had no scriptural grounds on which to leave i.e I hadn't cheated, I didn't beat her, I didn't gamble or do any other of the so called scriptural reasons that a spouse could leave, so I was in pieces as to what to do next. The Elders were trying to persuade my wife to come back to me, due to the aforementioned reasons, but she was having none of it. So, I turned to the one person who I thought I could get decent advice from, my Dad. I invited him over for a beer and chat (as you do) and I asked him what I could do to sort this mess out, he starts to pull the Bible out and before he could open it I broke down and asked him to help me as a Dad, he told me couldn't do it. The reason? Because he could only talk to me as a Witness, and as an Elder, and that all advice should be directed from the Bible. To give him his credit he looked just as upset as me, because I could see that he wanted to give me his advice, but his conscience wouldn't let him. This was 14 years ago now and I've long since gotten over it, but I do still think of it now and then and realise just what this religion does to families when parents can't give their own advice without it coming from the scriptures.

21

My Story

by SamTheGinge in

jw
friends

so, i joined just yesterday after coming across this forum looking at beth sarim, and i though that i would share my story with you.

it will no doubt be very similar to a lot of others, but it's a way of getting to know me at least.. i was brought up as witness from the age of 4 years old, my dad picked up the 'truth' from one of his friends in the pub and it seemed to go from there, he would quickly get baptised and progress to becoming a ministerial servant and then an elder.

from a young age i wanted to be like my dad and become a pioneer, a ministerial servant and then an elder... perhaps even becoming a co. the world, spiritually speaking, was my oyster.

SamTheGinge

This ordinarlly would be an issue WingCommander, however, I live some 300 miles away from my Dad and don't see him all that often, In fact I haven't seen him for over 3 years now, so this doesn't represent an immediate problem.

Both myself and my GF have made the decision that our daughter, when she is old enough, will be free to make her choices in life, but until such a time arises we will bring her up as we see fit, as all parents do. My GF has made very clear to my Dad that this is case, and he is big enough, and ugly enough (as the saying goes) to accept this. The great thing about our situation is that he doesn't force anything on either my GF, or daughter. Once we told him the deal, he took it and has respected it thus far. has fully respected it. At the minute he only see photos of her, and communicates via WhatsApp, so there is nothing he can do to force anything either way.

21

My Story

by SamTheGinge in

jw
friends

so, i joined just yesterday after coming across this forum looking at beth sarim, and i though that i would share my story with you.

it will no doubt be very similar to a lot of others, but it's a way of getting to know me at least.. i was brought up as witness from the age of 4 years old, my dad picked up the 'truth' from one of his friends in the pub and it seemed to go from there, he would quickly get baptised and progress to becoming a ministerial servant and then an elder.

from a young age i wanted to be like my dad and become a pioneer, a ministerial servant and then an elder... perhaps even becoming a co. the world, spiritually speaking, was my oyster.

SamTheGinge

Thanks for the messages and support folks.

I should point out, as I forgot to mention in the OP, that my Dad doesn't yet know that my missus is Wican. Though he is fully aware that she was brought up a Catholic (she made her own spiritual choices quite early), I think she wants to break him in gently before hitting him with it.

Even so, I find it somewhat ironic that he would choose to speak to someone who has zero interest in ever becoming a JW, and has never been one, over his own son who made a choice to not be one, but paid a hefty price for that choice. But, as Sorry pointed out, I am at peace with that though. I knew the minute I got Df'd what the score would be, so it wasn't. and hasn't been, a great surprise. The one thing I will say though is that he does to take a great interest in my youngest daughter who I have with my GF, he asks for pictures and asks my GF how she is doing etc etc, so though he won't speak to me he does still take an interest in my family. I am thankful, and grateful, for that at least.

406

ex-jw-uk

by bigmac in

jw
friends

i'm quite new to this site, & have realised some members have a union jack symbol under their avatar.

i don't.. could we have a "show of hands" from any uk members?

i've already found several by reading older posts..

SamTheGinge

Thanks Stan,

I am a former JW living on the Kent coast, but formerly from South Yorkshire (as you can tell from the avatar).