Posts by Theophilus

89

Do you believe ...

by AhHah in

simply respond to each question with a yes or no answer (or '?

' if unsure):.

before answering, please see my comments on general/main - "how about a survey?"..

Looking at the universe through the laws of cause and effect; that no effect can be greater than it's cause and that an effect can only contribute to it's subsequent effect that which it contains, would you agree that the universe (and all that it contains)is a good starting point in objectively establishing some rudimentary and essential characteristics of it's creator?

89

Do you believe ...

by AhHah in

simply respond to each question with a yes or no answer (or '?

' if unsure):.

before answering, please see my comments on general/main - "how about a survey?"..

Theophilus

It's VERY difficult to offend me. Humor is great.

Is it safe to assume from your previous posts that you believe the universe was created?

89

Do you believe ...

by AhHah in

simply respond to each question with a yes or no answer (or '?

' if unsure):.

before answering, please see my comments on general/main - "how about a survey?"..

Theophilus

Hi Carmel,

I just wanted to let you know that I do respect your position. I would not presume to
force my views or ideas on anyone. I am merely responding to an open forum from
my point of view. If something that I posted offended you, or if you feel that I
misrepresented you, then I apologize and would like to know any points of offense
so that I can provide explanation or apology.

I agree that we need to establish objective criteria for the evaluation of ideas and
perceptions. Experience alone is inadmissable as an explanation. If our beliefs are
founded on subjective experience, then we limit our ability to find the truth. I've
begun posting the initial questions to establish that objective criteria and would
certainly value your input.

Why do I say that I'm not "religeous?" I am a follower of Jesus Christ, whom I
believe is the messiah promised from God to bring salvation. When I say this, I mean
that I follow Christ, not the institution. In other words, my faith is not founded by
mindlessly regurgitating what a person in "authority" tells me. It is founded on the
study of the documents (and their history) that reveal the character and purposes of
God.
I examine what is put before me as truth. That's how I found this site to begin with. A pair of JW's visited my home, presented to me what they claim to be truth, and I am researching it and finding it lacking.

It's difficult to write so that my heart may be known and understood. I know that I have a tendency to write in a way that seems cold, I assure you that is not my heart.
You are all honest and open about where you are at in your lives and what you are thinking. I hope that I am percieved to be the same. I cast no judgement. I am sharing my views as those who have predceded me have also done.

89

Do you believe ...

by AhHah in

simply respond to each question with a yes or no answer (or '?

' if unsure):.

before answering, please see my comments on general/main - "how about a survey?"..

Theophilus

AhHah,

Tell me, what aspects of the universe lead you to believe that there is a creator and what the character of that creator would be.

89

Do you believe ...

by AhHah in

simply respond to each question with a yes or no answer (or '?

' if unsure):.

before answering, please see my comments on general/main - "how about a survey?"..

Theophilus

Can we agree that there is a God? A creator who made all things and is still active in his creation?

89

Do you believe ...

by AhHah in

simply respond to each question with a yes or no answer (or '?

' if unsure):.

before answering, please see my comments on general/main - "how about a survey?"..

Theophilus

Do you agree that two statements that contradict each other cannot both be true?
For instance, if I say a stop sign is red, and you say it is blue, we cannot both be right. We would then have to go to an objective source, say the DMV handbook, or the CALTRANS (in California, Where I am) traffic codes to determine which of us was correct. agreed?

89

Do you believe ...

by AhHah in

simply respond to each question with a yes or no answer (or '?

' if unsure):.

before answering, please see my comments on general/main - "how about a survey?"..

Theophilus

To answer Scorpion's questions...
Which are very thought provoking and soul searching ones to be sure.

<quote>Do you believe one can have a relationship with the true God without having knowledge of the
scriptures? </quote>
Every human on the planet, whether they acknowledge it or not, knows there is a God. Some hide behind atheism in a frantic attempt to fool themselves, but, let's be honest. This was no accident. Having said that, there are some commonalities that all religeous systems share (this is not to say that they are equal, see my previous post for my views on that). For example, the sacrifice of animals to "appease" the creator/ gods. I believe this is an intrinsic understanding of man's inability to save himself.

Psalms 19:1
The heavens are telling of the glory of God;
And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.

God has declared himself in his creation.
I am no authority on the subject, but I can see how it would be possible, however difficult, for man to know and understand the character of God in his creation. Although I would not recommend it.
God is just and righteous,and his ways are so far above us. I cannot claim to know his mind on this matter.

<quote>Do you believe that Jehovah's Witnesses will be judged adversely by God for believing what the
WT teaches?</quote>
You've really asked some toughies. I don't feel that I can offer a definitive answer to this, not knowing the hearts of those involved. Christ made it abundantly clear that religeon cannot and will not save anyone. Observance of the law is to be done in faith in Christ and in God who sent him as our ransom sacrifice, that we may be found holy and blameless. The law as Paul says, is powerless to make on righteous. However, the WT teaches a corruption of the word of God.
At some level, those teaching this doctrine know that they have willfully altered the word of God for their own benefit, not to bear out the truth. They will be held accountable. As it is written:
Galatians 1:6-9
I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different
gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of
Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to
you, he is to be accursed!As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you
received, he is to be accursed!

I pray that they will come to their senses and receive forgiveness from the God they have misrepresented. I cannot judge the hearts of those who sit in the pews at the Kingdom Halls, but in order to receive salvation, their faith must be in the true Christ, which would mean denying the doctrines of the WT, a religeon built by man.

<quote>Do you believe a Jehovah's Witness can have a good and true relationship with God through his
Son Jesus even though still in the WT?
</quote>
Again, this would mean a denial of the core doctrinal falicies taught by the society. I hope that all who have been blinded will receive true sight.

Now, turn about's fair play... What do you think?

12

I'm sure I already know the answer, but...

by puppylove in

jw
friends

why is it that most r&f witness can take anything the gb dishes out and swallow it whole?.

my mil takes everything she reads in the wt and calls it "meat in due season".

i guess this week's wt is about patience.

Theophilus

Hi again,

I know I'm new, but if I may...
AhHah's comments about believing that God is speaking through religeous leaders and allowing that to affect ones own capacity for reason is exactly the problem.
God gave us the ability to reason for a purpose... to use it. It is easier, of course, to simply sit and listen and absorb what you are told rather than get up off your butt and research for yourself.
To add to the second part "One would think that God would want to prevent such misrepresentation and exploitation..." He does. and he is. Our capacity for reason and our conscience are part of his efforts to that end. There's no free will if every time someone twisted scripture an Angel showed up and struck him dead.

89

Do you believe ...

by AhHah in

simply respond to each question with a yes or no answer (or '?

' if unsure):.

before answering, please see my comments on general/main - "how about a survey?"..

Theophilus

Well. I appreciate the welcome. This was actually the first thread I've read here. I can see that most of you have been deply affected by your withdrawl from the Society. Allow me to explain myself...

I was raised in a Methodist chuch which was, for all intents and purposes, more of a political platform than a place to find truth. Disenchanted, my family left that church when I was a youngster. We were out of church for a long time, still believing in Christ, but not in a fellowship until I was in the sixth grade. At that time, we became involved in the church We ( my wife and I) currently attend. I must explain that I am what is sometimes regarded as a "primitivist." I believe that the purest form of Christianity is to be found at the beginning. A lot of this is covered by the epistles and the books of Acts and Revelations. There is also some to be found in the extra biblical writings of the early Church fathers here's a goods site for research in this line http://www.ccel.org
My belief in Christ is not born from religeon. I would not consider myself religeous. I love God and have dedicated my life to a service relationship with him. Man is guilty of many perversions and misuse of God's words: the crusades and the inquisition are only two examples. Every one who goes to war invokes that God is on their side. It doesn't mean their right. It means they're smart enough to use God's name to rally the commoner. It's sick, really.
Why am I posting on a JW board having never been a JW?
Well, about 2-3 months ago My wifa and I were out in the yard when a man and a woman approached us and announced "Hi. We're doing the work of the Lord."
To which my wife responded "So are we."
They ignored her response and moved into a conversational (I hesitate to say "pitch" for fear of offending, but I don't know how else to describe it. I know you'll understand). We had a lengthy conversation comparing translation and meaning in some key passages. Then, when I percieved they were tired of me asking questions, they left us a pamphlet and a promise to come back. I reviewed the pamphlet, made some notes and started really digging into the Word. Reading key passages in the original languages (with the help of transliterated versions and such; I'm no Greek or Hebrew scholar) that sort of thing. Then I began to research the history and doctrines of the Watchtower and was absolutely flabbergasted by the frequent pendulum swings in doctrine and the midstream changes in their translations of the scriptures. I was amazed and heart broken. I continued my research and came across a site which described in detail one woman's struggle with being an outcast in her own family because she questioned a few points. God broke my heart for this woman.

I've gone on to read a number of the other postings and have come to realize that my initial posting may have come across as arrogant or uncaring. I can assure you, if I didn't care, I would not have posted in the first place.
I'm broken hearted that so many of you were subjected to the sufferings Iv'e read about. Men using God's name to cut one another or to oppress one another.
God's word is freedom, not chains.
God's word is a strong ally, not a decietful assasin. It is for building up and encouraging.
I can see how the twisting and misuse of His word has caused so much pain.
Well. I hope that sheds some light on my heart.
I am your servant.

89

Do you believe ...

by AhHah in

simply respond to each question with a yes or no answer (or '?

' if unsure):.

before answering, please see my comments on general/main - "how about a survey?"..

Theophilus

Greetings! I'm new here. Found this thread and thought I'd reply. I hope I'm not interupting a private conversation...I'd like to address a number of the issues raised in the thread, but first, I'll answer the survey just like everyone else had to do...

1. Do you believe in God (or that the universe has a Creator)? Yes. Absolutely.

2. Have you ever regularly attended meetings of Jehovah's Witnesses (either baptized or not)?
No. Never.

3. Do you personally agree with all current teachings and practices of Jehovah's Witnesses?
No. From my research, I'd have to say none.

4. Do you believe that the modern-day organization of Jehovah's Witnesses has God's blessing?
No. Not at all.

5. Do you believe that the modern-day organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is God's ONLY channel of spiritual revelation to mankind?
No. Not at all.

6. Do you believe that Christianity is the only form of worship approved by God?
True Christianity, Yes. Religeous Christianity. Nope.

7. Do you believe that the Bible (or parts of it) are inspired by God?
Yes, I'd say all of it.

8. Do you believe that any religious book(s) other than the Bible are inspired by God?
None that I'm aware of are directly inspired as the Bible or biblical literature is. Truth is truth, and partial truth can be found outside the Bible.

9. Do you believe that there will be a judgment day from God -- when God will judge living humans and put to death any that are not approved?
I believe in the judgement day, perhaps not in the same way you have described it.

10. Do you believe that mankind is living in the Bible's prophesied "last days" and that a judgment day from God will come in the near future?
Last days in the sense that it is the epoch between Christ's coming and the end of the world? Yes. No man knows the day, but relatively near future, yes.

Now, If I may, I would like to take up some of the issues raised.
The position that has been presented, that of progressive revelation through Judaism, Christianity and Islam, is really a limited relativism. The notion that they are all paths to truth. I must disagree. For it is written:
Malachi 3:6-7
"For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
"From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My statutes and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you," says
the LORD of hosts. "But you say, 'How shall we return?'

also,
1 Samuel 15:29
"Also the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind."

and,

Psalms 110:4
The LORD has sworn and will not change His mind,
"You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek."

Hebrews 6:17-18
In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to
take hold of the hope set before us.

God does not change. His requirements do not change, his character does not change, his plan does not change.
You may say, from Judaism to Christianity is a big change, but I would remind you that there are some 300 prophecies beginning in Genesis and moving right up through Malachi that predict nearly every aspect of the Messiah's life. Everyone of them was fulfilled by the life and work of Jesus Christ. God's redemptive plan was announced IMMEDIATELY after the fall of man in the garden.

Getting back to the issue... It is impossible that all belief systems or religeons should weigh equally on the scale. For if one says "we are all gods" and another "there is one God" how can they both be right? If one says " Man lives once and then faces judgement" and another says "we keep coming back, over and over again until we get it right" then how can both be right? If one says "'god' is an impersonal force, blind to what is really going on" and another says "God is active in this world and personally concerned with our lives to the point that he cares about the number of hairs we have on our head" They cannot both be right. It's mutually exclusive. Either one is right and the other is wrong, or they are both wrong.
Narrow? rigid? Yes. But the kid who says 2+2=5 fails the test.
for it is written:
Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Throughout the Bible record, God clearly and demonstratively condemns the worship of any god's other than himself. It is clear that God does not view salvation as broad or relative.
Salvation comes through faith that God is who he said he is and will do what he says he will do. It was belief that was credited to Abraham as righteousness. It is faith in the person of Jesus Christ that saves us.
The law and the prophets were not given to provide salvation, but rather to reveal our need for redemption. The sacrifices of the Jews were not given but as a picture of the sacrifice God would make when he bound himself in human flesh, walked blamelessly before us as a model of his love acted out. Love to the point of death. That is the call on everyone who would follow Christ.
A final thought...

Jeremiah 2:11
"Has a nation changed gods
When they were not gods?
But My people have changed their glory
For that which does not profit."