Posts by Theophilus

46

Jehovah We'll Believe When We See Signs & M...

by MDS in

truly i say, no sign will be given to this generation.".

" -- 1 cor.

-- see 1 cor.

Theophilus

Why all the migrating posts?
This thread started over at "divinity of Jesus as the Christ" and got all the way over here to MDS' post????
Has this argument ended?

33

The divinity of Jesus as the Christ

by Theophilus in

i have been curious why the jw's and other cults claim that the bible does not support the notion of the christ as divine (god).

can anyone offer an explanation?

my reading of the texts brings me to that conclusion.

My point is this the term "being in the form of God" or "being in very nature God" is rendered thus because of the Greek term "morphe theou".
This phrase (and please don't take my word for it) emphasizes that Christ essential nature is that of God. That apart from his human body, he possess all the characteristics of God, because he is God.

This is why the disciples worshipped him and were not rebuked. This is why he did not refute the Pharisees when they sought to kill him for blasphemy. It was blasphemy, unless he was indeed God.

The diety and worshipfullness of Jesus as the Christ is plainly shown in the scriptures and in the witness of the early Christian Church. The writings of Justin Martyr, Ignatius, Clement of Rome, and others of the Ante-Nicene Fathers bear witness to the doctrine. It was Tertullian, in fact, who first coigned the term "trinity" referring to the Godhead in about 200 A.D.

33

The divinity of Jesus as the Christ

by Theophilus in

i have been curious why the jw's and other cults claim that the bible does not support the notion of the christ as divine (god).

can anyone offer an explanation?

my reading of the texts brings me to that conclusion.

Theophilus

Philippians 2:5-11 (NIV)
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

My focus of posting this verse is with vs. 6. Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

KJV says "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

46

Jehovah We'll Believe When We See Signs & M...

by MDS in

truly i say, no sign will be given to this generation.".

" -- 1 cor.

-- see 1 cor.

Theophilus

Hi. This all came up pretty fast.
Hey MDS, I must confess that I did not read your original post.
Can you condense it into something a bit smaller.
That would be much appreciated.
Thanks!

33

The divinity of Jesus as the Christ

by Theophilus in

i have been curious why the jw's and other cults claim that the bible does not support the notion of the christ as divine (god).

can anyone offer an explanation?

my reading of the texts brings me to that conclusion.

Theophilus

Sure. I've been neglecting it due to my busy schedule. I'll try to post more soon. Thanks for the responses though.
Incidentally, Have you studied the NWT? I've been doing some research and have found that in a number of places, without support from the original texts, the translators have inserted, mischaracterized, and in other ways altered the reading of several scriptures. Particularly those that deal with the diety of Jesus. In my opinion, this has been done not with the intent to accurately render the scriptures, but rather out of theological neccessity from a pre-concieved point of view.
More to come...

23

They Came back

by Theophilus in

howdy.

after an unfortunate absence i have returned.

ina previous thread, i shared that i had initially begun my research into jw doctrine and such after being approached (some would say accosted) by a pair of well meaning jw's one saturday morning.

Theophilus

Good morning,

It's a chilly Monday morning here is California.
Saturday, we had two visits from our JW friends. For the first, I was not home so my wife asked them to come back later. For the second, I was just getting out of the shower so she told them the best way to set up a good time would be through e-mail. They did leave us more...um...."literature." Hopefully I'll be able to meet with them soon. Thanks for your encouragement and prayers.
I'll keep you posted.

23

They Came back

by Theophilus in

howdy.

after an unfortunate absence i have returned.

ina previous thread, i shared that i had initially begun my research into jw doctrine and such after being approached (some would say accosted) by a pair of well meaning jw's one saturday morning.

Theophilus

Hey all,

Thanks for your encouragement and advice.
I believe that God wants the truth to be known. God is light and love. He exposes darkness and error when one who is in His Spirit reaches out in love to the one in darkness. Like Plato's analogy of the cave; for those who have lived their whole lives watching dim shadows on the walls of dark caves, the light is painful.

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Hebrews 4:12-13

The truth spoken in love. My heart wants to see people free in Christ.

23

They Came back

by Theophilus in

howdy.

after an unfortunate absence i have returned.

ina previous thread, i shared that i had initially begun my research into jw doctrine and such after being approached (some would say accosted) by a pair of well meaning jw's one saturday morning.

Theophilus

Great stuff. I see where you are headed. I realyy don't want to scare them off. I want to help. I think you are right. I'll try to be gentle. Here was my thinking. I want to know from them in their own words, "why should I believe that the society is right?" what evidence is there that the society has truth? That sort of thing. I think that should be the first thing anybody would ask about an organization before joining it. Thanks so much for these beautiful gems. Play dumb!!! that's great!
The guys I'm talking with are probably most definitely street wise. At least in their 40's. I have no idea how long they've been with the society or how they got involved. I think I'll ask them about themselves when I meet with them. I need to get to know these guys and be friendly. I do want to love them as people rather than just as the faceless, nameless lost. That's really my desire.
Thanks again. I'd love to hear any other ideas and such.

23

They Came back

by Theophilus in

howdy.

after an unfortunate absence i have returned.

ina previous thread, i shared that i had initially begun my research into jw doctrine and such after being approached (some would say accosted) by a pair of well meaning jw's one saturday morning.

Theophilus

I don't expect to receive answers to my questions. They are simply asked to get a starting place. The "Trinity" pamphlet is perhaps the clearest, most blatant deception I have ever read! If the seed is planted, I'll be happy.
I would absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE other techniques to try.
I want to approach this with compassion and show the my love for them. I've been praying like crazy over this and I am trusting God for the result.

23

They Came back

by Theophilus in

howdy.

after an unfortunate absence i have returned.

ina previous thread, i shared that i had initially begun my research into jw doctrine and such after being approached (some would say accosted) by a pair of well meaning jw's one saturday morning.

Theophilus

Here's a copy of the e-mail I just sent the JW's who came to my door.
Please join me in praying that our discussions and meetings would either plant the seed of water an existing seed to bloom. Thanks!

Jeff & Daryl,

Let me begin by apologizing for the unfortunate delay to our meeting. My schedule has been overwhelming of late, as I'm sure you can relate. I would ask your continued patience as I look for an opening. Are there particular days that work better for you? Weekends? weeknights?
In the meantime, Iv'e been doing much research and have a couple of requests...

Despite my efforts, I have been unable to find any documentation to identify the translators of your New World Testament. I feel that it is essential to validate the authority under which something as important as the scriptures were translated. This is key for a number of reasons. If you could provide this information or request this information from the WTBTS, I would be most grateful.
Secondly, I noticed in reading the booklet "Should You Believe in the Trinity," that a number of the quotes used contained elipses and were not completely documented. I would appreciate if you could provide the complete quotes or a list of source materials for the quotes which includes the ISBN number or the Library of Congress number. I anticipate that the WTBTS should be able to provide you with that information.
Please feel free to make any requests of me as well.

Thanks again for your forbearance. I anticipate that we will be able to meet soon.
Sincerely,
Scott Boor

What do you think? Ignorant and innocent enough?