ThiChi

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Posts by ThiChi

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  9

  Evolutionary Future of Man

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on another thread i was asked by island woman about the potential future evolution of mankind ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=20456&site=3) so i went back into my dawkins archives and dug up this gem..

  enjoy!!!.

  evolution is widely regarded as a progressive force thrusting inexorably towards racial improvement, which may be seen as offering some tangible hope for our troubled species.

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  ThiChi

  Thanks for the info Jan H, I will look into it!

  “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet
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  8

  When to expect CO visit?

  by ChakkaConned in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my understanding is that when a co comes for a visit to a cong., the first day he reviews the pub records, etc.

  is there a certain day or day's during that week that he accompanies the elder's to specifically call on inactive ones?

  is there a set schedule or time that the co follows during his visits for this?

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  ThiChi

  Wednesday was the servant’s meeting with the CO, with the Service Overseer making recommendations on who to visit throughout the week. The visit would come any time after Wednesday.

  “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet
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  9

  Evolutionary Future of Man

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on another thread i was asked by island woman about the potential future evolution of mankind ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=20456&site=3) so i went back into my dawkins archives and dug up this gem..

  enjoy!!!.

  evolution is widely regarded as a progressive force thrusting inexorably towards racial improvement, which may be seen as offering some tangible hope for our troubled species.

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  ThiChi

  JanH: Nice try......

  "Of all the statements that have been made with respect to theories on the origin of life, the statement that the Second Law of Thermodynamics poses no problem for an evolutionary origin of life is the most absurd... The operation of natural processes on which the Second Law of Thermodynamics is based is alone sufficient, therefore, to preclude the spontaneous evolutionary origin of the immense biological order required for the origin of life." (Duane Gish, Ph.D. in biochemistry from University of California at Berkeley) 10

  Emmett Williams, Ph.D:

  "It is probably no exaggeration to claim that the laws of thermodynamics represent some of the best science we have today. While the utterances in some fields (such as astronomy) seem to change almost daily, the science of thermodynamics has been noteworthy for its stability. In many decades of careful observations, not a single departure from any of these laws has ever been noted." 11

  If Evolution is true, there must be an extremely powerful force or mechanism at work in the cosmos that can steadily defeat the powerful, ultimate tendency toward "disarrangedness" brought by the 2nd Law. If such an important force or mechanism is in existence, it would seem it should be quite obvious to all scientists. Yet, the fact is, no such force of nature has been found.
  A number of scientists believe the 2nd Law, when truly understood, is enough to refute the theory of Evolution. In fact, it is one of the most important reasons why various Evolutionists have dropped their theory in favor of Creationism.

  open systems/closed systems: open thermodynamic systems exchange heat, light, or matter with their surroundings, closed systems do not. No outside energy flows into a closed system. Earth is an open system; it receives outside energy from the Sun.""

  “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet
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  9

  Evolutionary Future of Man

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on another thread i was asked by island woman about the potential future evolution of mankind ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=20456&site=3) so i went back into my dawkins archives and dug up this gem..

  enjoy!!!.

  evolution is widely regarded as a progressive force thrusting inexorably towards racial improvement, which may be seen as offering some tangible hope for our troubled species.

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  ThiChi

  ""Please provide an answer to the following questions: "Evolution" in this context is the idea that natural, undirected processes are sufficient to account for the existence of all natural things.
  Something from nothing?

  The "Big Bang", the most widely accepted theory of the beginning of the universe, states that everything developed from a small dense cloud of subatomic particles and radiation which exploded, forming hydrogen (and some helium) gas. Where did this energy/matter come from? How reasonable is it to assume it came into being from nothing? And even if it did come into being, what would cause it to explode?
  We know from common experience that explosions are destructive and lead to disorder. How reasonable is it to assume that a "big bang" explosion produced the opposite effect - increasing "information", order and the formation of useful structures, such as stars and planets, and eventually people?

  Physical laws an accident?
  We know the universe is governed by several fundamental physical laws, such as electromagnetic forces, gravity, conservation of mass and energy, etc. The activities of our universe depend upon these principles like a computer program depends upon the existence of computer hardware with an instruction set. How reasonable is it to say that these great controlling principles developed by accident?
  Order from disorder?
  The Second Law of Thermodynamics may be the most verified law of science. It states that systems become more disordered over time, unless energy is supplied and directed to create order. Evolutionists says that the opposite has taken place - that order increased over time, without any directed energy. How can this be?
  ASIDE: Evolutionists commonly object that the Second Law applies to closed, or isolated systems, and that the Earth is certainly not a closed system (it gets lots of raw energy from the Sun, for example). However, all systems, whether open or closed, tend to deteriorate. For example, living organisms are open systems but they all decay and die. Also, the universe in total is a closed system. To say that the chaos of the big bang has transformed itself into the human brain with its 120 trillion connections is a clear violation of the Second Law.

  We should also point out that the availability of raw energy to a system is a necessary but far from sufficient condition for a local decrease in entropy to occur. Certainly the application of a blow torch to bicycle parts will not result in a bicycle being assembled - only the careful application of directed energy will, such as from the hands of a person following a plan. The presence of energy from the Sun does NOT solve the evolutionist's problem of how increasing order could occur on the Earth, contrary to the Second Law.

  Information from Randomness?
  Information theory states that "information" never arises out of randomness or chance events. Our human experience verifies this every day. How can the origin of the tremendous increase in information from simple organisms up to man be accounted for? Information is always introduced from the outside. It is impossible for natural processes to produce their own actual information, or meaning, which is what evolutionists claim has happened. Random typing might produce the string "dog", but it only means something to an intelligent observer who has applied a definition to this sequence of letters. The generation of information always requires intelligence, yet evolution claims that no intelligence was involved in the ultimate formation of a human being whose many systems contain vast amounts of information.
  Life from dead chemicals?
  Evolutionists claim that life formed from non-life (dead chemicals), so-called "abiogenesis", even though it is a biological law ("biogenesis") that life only comes from life. The probability of the simplest imaginable replicating system forming by itself from non-living chemicals has been calculated to be so very small as to be essentially zero - much less than one chance in the number of electron-sized particles that could fit in the entire visible universe! Given these odds, is it reasonable to believe that life formed itself?
  Complex DNA and RNA by chance?
  The continued existence (the reproduction) of a cell requires both DNA (the "plan") and RNA (the "copy mechanism"), both of which are tremendously complex. How reasonable is it to believe that these two co-dependent necessities came into existence by chance at exactly the same time?
  Life is complex.
  We know and appreciate the tremendous amount of intelligent design and planning that went into landing a man on the moon. Yet the complexity of this task pales in comparison to the complexity of even the simplest life form. How reasonable is it to believe that purely natural processes, with no designer, no intelligence, and no plan, produced a human being.
  Where are the transitional fossils?
  If evolution has taken place our museums should be overflowing with the skeletons of countless transitional forms. Yet after over one hundred years of intense searching only a small number of transitional candidates are touted as proof of evolution. If evolution has really taken place, where are the transitional forms? And why does the fossil record actually show all species first appearing fully formed, with most nearly identical to current instances of the species?
  ASIDE: Most of the examples touted by evolutionists concentrate on just one feature of the anatomy, like a particular bone or the skull. A true transitional fossil should be intermediate in many if not all aspects. The next time someone shows you how this bone changed over time, ask them about the rest of the creature too!

  Many evolutionists still like to believe in the "scarcity" of the fossil record. Yet simple statistics will show that given you have found a number of fossil instances of a creature, the chances that you have missed every one of its imagined predecessors is very small. Consider the trilobites for example. These fossils are so common you can buy one for under $20, yet no fossils of a predecessor have been found!.

  Could an intermediate even survive?
  Evolution requires the transition from one kind to another to be gradual. And don't forget that "natural selection" is supposed to retain those individuals which have developed an advantage of some sort. How could an animal intermediate between one kind and another even survive (and why would it ever be selected for), when it would not be well-suited to either its old environment or its new environment? Can you even imagine a possible sequence of small changes which takes a creature from one kind to another, all the while keeping it not only alive, but improved?
  ASIDE: Certainly a "light-sensitive spot" is better than no vision at all. But why would such a spot even develop? (evolutionists like to take this for granted). And even if it did develop, to believe that mutations of such a spot eventually brought about the tremendous complexities of the human eye strains all common sense and experience.

  Reproduction without reproduction?
  A main tenet of evolution is the idea that things develop by an (unguided) series of small changes, caused by mutations, which are "selected" for, keeping the "better" changes" over a very long period of time. How could the ability to reproduce evolve, without the ability to reproduce? Can you even imagine a theoretical scenario which would allow this to happen? And why would evolution produce two sexes, many times over? Asexual reproduction would seem to be more likely and efficient!
  ASIDE: To relegate the question of reproduction to "abiogenesis" does NOT address the problem. To assume existing, reproducing life for the principles of evolution to work on is a HUGE assumption which is seldom focused on in popular discussions.

  Plants without photosynthesis?
  The process of photosynthesis in plants is very complex. How could the first plant survive unless it already possessed this remarkable capability?
  How do you explain symbiotic relationships?
  There are many examples of plants and animals which have a "symbiotic" relationship (they need each other to survive). How can evolution explain this?
  It's no good unless it's complete.
  We know from everyday experience that an item is not generally useful until it is complete, whether it be a car, a cake, or a computer program. Why would natural selection start to make an eye, or an ear, or a wing (or anything else) when this item would not benefit the animal until it was completed?
  ASIDE: Note that even a "light-sensitive spot" or the simplest version of any feature is far from a "one-jump" change that is trivial to produce.

  Explain metamorphosis!
  How can evolution explain the metamorphosis of the butterfly? Once the caterpillar evolves into the "mass of jelly" (out of which the butterfly comes), wouldn't it appear to be "stuck"?
  It should be easy to show evolution.
  If evolution is the grand mechanism that has produced all natural things from a simple gas, surely this mechanism must be easily seen. It should be possible to prove its existence in a matter of weeks or days, if not hours. Yet scientists have been bombarding countless generations of fruit flies with radiation for several decades in order to show evolution in action and still have only produced ... more (deformed) fruit flies. How reasonable is it to believe that evolution is a fact when even the simplest of experiments has not been able to document it?
  ASIDE: The artificial creation of a new species is far too small of a change to prove that true "macro-evolution" is possible. A higher-order change, where the information content of the organism has been increased should be showable and is not. Developing a new species changes the existing information, but does not add new information, such as would be needed for a new organ, for example.

  Complex things require intelligent design folks!
  People are intelligent. If a team of engineers were to one day design a robot which could cross all types of terrain, could dig large holes, could carry several times its weight, found its own energy sources, could make more robots like itself, and was only 1/8 of an inch tall, we would marvel at this achievement. All of our life's experiences lead us to know that such a robot could never come about by accident, or assemble itself by chance, even if all of the parts were available laying next to each other. And we are certain beyond doubt that a canister of hydrogen gas, no matter how long we left it there or what type of raw energy we might apply to it, would never result in such a robot being produced. But we already have such a "robot" - it is called an "ant", and we squash them because they are "nothing" compared to people. And God made them, and he made us. Can there be any other explanation? """

  “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet
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  19

  Apostates are DEMONIZED !

  by Derrick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the other day an elder expressed concern for the "growing number of apostates on the world wide web" and said "apostates are "demonized"!.

  choose the definition the elder most likely intended to imply:.

  http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=demonized.

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  ThiChi

  I hereby make the counter charge that the Jws, by their radical interpretation of Christianity, their continuous misuse of Disfellowshipping, and their refusal to abate disproved doctrines that have lead to countless families and individuals into a broken state of relationships with each other; That, the Jws are the apostates that the Bible foretold.

  “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet
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  20

  Part 2: Torn between Two Worlds

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  part 2: torn between two worlds .

  in late november 1989 we decided to visit our new town, and see our new house.

  we scoped out the small town for its amenities, and this included a visit to the kingdom hall where we would eventually attend.. hindsight, being 20-20, i regret now that i did not try to get my family out of the organization before the move.

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  ThiChi

  Like with Brother Franz, I truly appreciate your seemingly balanced observations and heart felt need to “to the right thing.” Like I said before, we were in very similar situations, family, kids wanting to do more outside the JW camp, and dealing with the issue of “what do I do now?”

  I logged on today just to see if part two was ready!

  “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet
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  Apologetics Index

  by ThiChi in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  very cool resource, some jw stuff there too:.

  http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/.

  """apologetics index (apologeticsindex.org, apologeticsindex.com, and countercult.com) provides research resources on religious cults, sects, new religious movements, alternative religions, apologetics-, anticult-, and countercult organizations, doctrines, religious practices and world views.

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  ThiChi

  Good point, however, I am sure you welcome information with an open mind to help make informed decisions? That is at least my endeavor.......

  “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet
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  Apologetics Index

  by ThiChi in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  very cool resource, some jw stuff there too:.

  http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/.

  """apologetics index (apologeticsindex.org, apologeticsindex.com, and countercult.com) provides research resources on religious cults, sects, new religious movements, alternative religions, apologetics-, anticult-, and countercult organizations, doctrines, religious practices and world views.

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  ThiChi

  Very cool Resource, some JW stuff there too:

  http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/

  """Apologetics Index (apologeticsindex.org, apologeticsindex.com, and countercult.com) provides research resources on religious cults, sects, new religious movements, alternative religions, apologetics-, anticult-, and countercult organizations, doctrines, religious practices and world views. These resources reflect a variety of theological and/or sociological perspectives. The site provides information that helps equip Christians to logically present and defend the Christian faith, and that aids non-Christians in their comparison of various religious claims. Issues addressed range from spiritual and cultic abuse to contemporary theological and/or sociological concerns. AI also includes ex-cult support resources, up-to-date religion news, articles on Christian life and ministry, and a variety of other features."""

  “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet
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  9

  making apostate predictions .

  by refiners fire in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  late in 1993 i made a prediction to an innactive, but still believing, jw.. the prediction was that the understanding of the "generation" would be changed before the end of 1994 and that it would become a figurative generation.. as it turned out, i was wrong, they changed it in november 1995.. but the witness still rang me up and asked how i could possibly know that 2 years before the org did.

  the guys a rotten apostate now.. hehehe.. anyway, last night i did it again to another innactive believer, i predicted that the blood stance will be abandoned, and that child molestation is going to hit the headlines.

  the second ones pretty straight forward, a nice little teaser for him to gain confidence in my "prophetic" ability.

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  ThiChi

  Only a year off on your 1994 prediction? If only the WT had your track record, I would go back.............

  “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet
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  8

  New World Translation Examined

  by ThiChi in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am in a reading mood!

  !has anyone read the role of theology and bias in bible translation: with a special look at the new world translation of jehovah's witnesses?.

  many claims have been made here regarding the reliability of the nwt.

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  ThiChi

  Larc:
  Really? I would like to know..........

  “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet