several posters have asked what i thought of the.
revelations about the wt being associated with the un.
as an ngo so i thought i might make a brief comment on.
YK
Faith not shaken? Well yours isn't in the WTS anyway because your just as much an apostate in their eyes as anyone else here. Lots of others who think the WTS is virtually God are deeply upset.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
hey all.
this is my first post to this group.
ive been lurking for quite awhile and to say the least, this board makes me late for work as i oversleep from a late night of reading and wondering.
Parliament
My god be in your heart and with your family and not in a kingdom hall.Does the above statement make me apostate?
Nope! The statement says you are free.
Welcome to the board. I look forward to other experiences and stories. I am glad you have a happy life, it reassures lots of others.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
i thought that this was all out of the way when 2 weeks ago my wife & i handed in letters of disassociation.. we have been since then trying to adjust & just when i thought i was getting somewhere - starting to feel normal again - i got a phone call 1hr ago from our presiding overseer saying that they haven't announced it yet & wanted to talk.. he is a very nice guy & i was caught totally unprepared so i put him off - said i would ring back later - 2pm'ish uk time.. now i have that horrible feeling in my stomach again - help!.
basically, when it comes down to it i don't think we want them to come over - it will open us up too much & i don't want that.. also, though, i want to sort it out; so i am thinking of just chatting to him for a bit on the phone.. i didn't really want to do this since it could knock their faith & also i am not fully ready to argue all of the facts with elders.
however it looks like i will have to.. anyway when it boils down to it they can argue away all of the facts like the un thing etc.
Steven,
We are all with you and will try to support you in this. They won't DF you as you have already DA's yourself. It gets messy for the elders to do that and DA letter is far better from their standpoint.
Since you have a commitment that the announcement will be made next week you have the opportunity to let others know why you are doing this before the announcement is made. Let them know. They are going to consider you as dead now. At least some may be helped by knowing why you have quit.
When you feel more comfortable e-mail me. We may have some thngs in common.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
the watchtower, october 22, 2001, page 22, column 2, paragraph 2:.
loyaty to jehovah also includes loyalty to his organization.
necessarily, over the years there have been corrections and adjustments to our understanding of certain scriptures.
Necessarily, over the years there have been corrections and adjustments to our understanding of certain scriptures.
It wouldn't be so bad if the real changes were actually about the Bible. Unfortunately, most of the wacky and hurtful dogma of JWs have no basis in the Bible. Blood transfusions aren't mentioned and it takes a lot of scripture twisting to get the WTS idea of no blood except the kit form kind. Monthly hours, reporting time, shunning family members, sexual practices, contraception and sterilization to name a few have no basis in the Bible yet these things change every few years.
Let's not forget that the necessary changes included changes in ideas about aluminum cookware, vacinations, organ transplants, alternative service and voting. It seems that plenty of other religions had the right idea way before Jehovah "directed" the Watchtower to get it right.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
the 'old-timers' generally carry a congregation.. i grew up in a cong' with six members of the 'anointed' - only two remain and one of those, a lovely lady with genuine warmth and interest in people, is now in a nursing home.. what happens when the depth that these individuals bring is lost?.
of course, they were/are barking up the wrong tree as much as the rest of the dubs but their influence at least tended to 'round out' some of the more hard-line jw's.. .
nic'.
Montag
Most of the young dubs don't know old WT history [or care for that matter] so as new generations continue to replace the old we can look forward to a corresponding shift in WT theology
In JWspeak generations don't get old and don't get replaced they stretch. Forget the dead people, JWs live in one big happy generation that started sometime around the turn of the 19th century and continues on.
"This generation" saw the coming of Armageddon (the 1914 one) when Jesus had arrived, saw him come again (in 1914 with hindsight) watched the "faithful men of old" live again in 1925, built them a fancy house and sold it, waited for WW2 to turn in to Armageddon, decided not to have kids, sold everything and saw Armageddon through in 1975, hoped for it in 1986, got renewed energy in 1995, watched TV all day long Dec 31, 1999...and still says the WTS is God's only channel, his organization who are not inspired but directed and the UN thing, isn't true, is true but is OK, is not OK so we left...UN who?
So many old don't remember much. Pehaps the newbies who are left won't remember or know this and will choose to forget and can move on to something different and hopefully better.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
i'd like to find out how many years collectively we have acquired in the wts.
please list how many years you were/have been a jw.
please also list how many years you have been out.
In from birth - 36 years
Baptized 22 years
Out 4 years 6 months 2 days (not that I'm counting)
T.
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
my wife and i met with 3 elders for a "judicial hearing".. our crime: simply put, was talking.
i showed a friend the un website where the wts was listed as an ngo which then led to a 2 hour discussion of various doubts that we both have had.
my wife also showed a friend the un thing but also discussed with her a first hand account of a pedophile cover-up that we knew about in our former congregation.
Bad Willie,
I am sorry for what you are going through. Please, please, please take this further and contact those people who have offered to help. By all means appeal, get the announcement stopped, write to the society and copy the elders on the letter.
All,
If the reporter from the Gaurdian is reading these pages this is another story. The WTS claimed its association with the UN was for human rights reasons yet when its own membership discuss their involvement they seek to discipline the member. If Bad Willie is disfellowshipped (the next stage if he continues with this) the WTS and the JWs will be violating his human rights, his right to dignity...and for what? Telling the truth.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
i have been watching the news on cnn and happened to notice the news flashing across the bottom mentioning the state of ohio banning door to door work and jehovah's witnesses!
has anyone seen this?
I think the laywers representing Stratton should be helped out with some Watchtower Society publications. I don't have an OM book any more and its not contained on the CD-ROM. However, there are planety of quotes from the WTS publications that show that they are model citizens who obey the law when it doen't conflict with God's law. Since, the local law is not in violation of God's law they must have to challenge the fact that they are somehow being discriminated against.
On the topic of the sort of people who might be visiting your home this what the Kingdom Ministry said in December 1974:
Question Box
• In a case in which a person, because of genuine repentance, is not disfellowshipped, is it nonetheless proper to restrict him from the preaching work under certain circumstances?
When one is privately or publicly reproved, the information on page 168 of the Organization book applies. While it is true that certain restrictions may be placed on such individuals, it is good to note what is said on page 168 regarding the preaching work, namely: "The person would be free to engage fully in the preaching work and to report such . . . " Likely in the case of a notorious situation where one is publicly reproved, it would be the course of wisdom for that one to engage in the preaching work in a section of the territory where the problem is not widely known, at least for a while. It is good to keep in mind that the preaching work is a basic part of our service to God, and all who serve Jehovah should be sharing in it.-Matt. 24:14; 28:18-20.
What about a person who has been reinstated following disfellowshiping? Should he be allowed to engage in the field service immediately? Yes, in harmony with the above thoughts he should be allowed to engage in the field service following reinstatement. As to other privileges in this regard we can be guided by what is stated in the Organization book, page 177.
Slightly off the subject. Don't you see a restiriction on FS would be gladly endured by the repentant wrong-doer. However, since FS is a huge chore and effort why would they want to remove that as punishment?
It makes you think!
THirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
friday many american schools recited the pledge of allegiance to the nation's flag simultaneously, at 2pm eastern time (8am in hawaii).
to be sure, the pressure on children of jw's was great because of the nationalistic feelings that have swept america in the aftermath of the 9/11 terror attacks.. should jw parents simply have removed their children for that afternoon?
or perhaps armed them with a better explanation (about why they won't say the pledge) then "it's because of my religion"???.
Prisca,
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands: one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
When I attended school in South Australia we had a Monday morning asembly in the quadrangle where anong other things the national pledge was said to the beat of a drum. I can't remember all of it but it started:
"I am an Australian, I love my country, I honour her Queen, I salute her flag..."
I stood there silent being the JW kid I was. This was the early 70's with much dissent and opposition to Australia's involvement in Vietnam. My one older brother attended high school and said that on ANZAC day in 1972 not a single student said the pledge and during the national anthem only the principal sang the words!
As a JW I remember being left out of religious school assemblies and being missed out of quite a few other things that went on there. In the last few years of high school I went to all assemblies. Hardly anyone sang the hymns so I wasn't alone.
By the time my son was at school I decided not to exclude him from activities on religious grounds. Not that there is much religion in US schools. I let him sing in the choir. No carrols are sung and "Jingle Bell" is a song about a sleigh ride. Within a short while I had given up on all the weird "no-nos" of the WTS. I hope he has a better time at school than me. He already has to cope with being different for ethnic, nationality reasons I don't religion to cause further issues.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
for all the philatelists among us, i sure hope the brooklyn-based world government-in-waiting is preparing a commemorative stamp issue to honor the imminent centernary of our lord's presence.
maybe one stamp for each of the detainees in atlanta, capped off by a high-value airmail stamp depicting the rapture that never was?
seriously, how many of you folks out there collect stamps?
R215,
It won't just be stamps. I can’t wait. Watching a show on cable TV and every other commercial break will be this:
In celebration of 100 years of misleading American heroes the History Society or America is proud to bring you the messianic memorial silver dollar. This genuine and legal tender (in Liberia) silver dollar coin features the head of Charles Taze Russell on one side and Michael the Archangel ousting the devil from heaven on the other. Beautifully and meticulously reproduced from actual Watchtower published illustrations this magnificent coin can be yours to treasure forever.
This one of kind coin can be yours for just $59.99 (plus $6.95 shipping and handling). But wait. Order in the next 5 minutes and we’ll include free a CD-ROM containing everything the Watchtower Society has published in the last 100 years a $2.00 value. But there’s even more, we’ll also include a leather-look book bag monogrammed with the Watchtower logo.
Don’t delay. This is a limited time offer (we will run out real soon) Our operators are standing by. Have your credit card number ready. Rush delivery available.
Thirdson
Stamp collector 1966 - 1972 -- Albums in a box at my folks place in England.
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
