Because very few (no one I know) people can obtain a Bible for free. Theres a reason its called "the best selling book of the year, every year." How can you have a Bible study without a Bible? Nevermind the fact that books that help explain the Bible (lexicons, dictionaries, biblical exegesis) are very costly. I've been to churches where you can receive a personal Bible study, but the materials alone costed about 40 bucks.
Posts by Ethos
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41FREE Home Bible Study?!?!?
by Christ Alone inso i finally took a deep breath and watched the annual meeting report.
i found a little nugget before the "new light" discussion began.
there was a report about the "public preaching" that was taking place in manhattan.
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WT Elders school: The WTS has progressed from just plain stupid to dangerously stupid
by sir82 infresh off the recent 1-day elders school.
to keep things readable i'll post "highlights" over the next several days in different topics.
point 1: they have progressed from "just plain" stupid to dangerously stupid.. .
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Ethos
Oh please. The instructions to the elders is not some top secret, classified, no-one must know information. In fact, most of their information is originally referenced FROM the public WT publications that we ALL read. Elders have told me things they learned in elders school, as have pioneers have with the pioneer school. You are insinuating a distorted, unfactual portrayal of what JWs can and cannot do.
I could answer your questions but this would turn this discussion into a 10 page long debate, that I could not even begin to reply to as I've used a great deal of my allotted posts in this thread already.
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WT Elders school: The WTS has progressed from just plain stupid to dangerously stupid
by sir82 infresh off the recent 1-day elders school.
to keep things readable i'll post "highlights" over the next several days in different topics.
point 1: they have progressed from "just plain" stupid to dangerously stupid.. .
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Ethos
There is no spouting of stories off the top of my head. Geez, I wonder when whenever I give my personal experience it has to be so thoroughly substantiated and I am branded as a troll, but others can post their life stories about Bethel rape and child molestation coverup and so forth, and they are not scrutinized and asked to be substantiated. I was raised a Baptist and have been to churches all over my state. I later became an agnostic and stopped going to church altogether. When you think of church is there usually one instructor/overseer or not? Generally speaking, of course.I didnt intend to turn this into a debate. I just wanted to inject more of a balanced viewpoint. I'll be saving the remainder of my 10 posts for the 607 thread.
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WT Elders school: The WTS has progressed from just plain stupid to dangerously stupid
by sir82 infresh off the recent 1-day elders school.
to keep things readable i'll post "highlights" over the next several days in different topics.
point 1: they have progressed from "just plain" stupid to dangerously stupid.. .
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Ethos
The 8/22/01 Awake recommends therapy and professional help for those with PTSD. There is no shortage of recommendations for medical assistance in the WT Publications anx I'm willing to give most adult men who are elders the benefit of the doubt, using just a little common sense, when it would be prudent to suggest/assist with providing professional help. There is a brother at my hall who usually makes off the wall comments who has mental problems. The elders have even accompanied him to the hospital and make sure he is taking his medication regularly; otherwise, he will not be called on.
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WT Elders school: The WTS has progressed from just plain stupid to dangerously stupid
by sir82 infresh off the recent 1-day elders school.
to keep things readable i'll post "highlights" over the next several days in different topics.
point 1: they have progressed from "just plain" stupid to dangerously stupid.. .
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Ethos
Not for Christ's brothers. "You received free, give free." Except in Christendom where there's no way one paid minister can shepherd the whole church and there's nothing even close to training for handling sensitive situations like this. Sure, criticize JWs, you have that right as we are wrong about things, but this misleading, positive contrast with Christendom that is being regurgitated, is glossing over what is an even grander problem affecting BILLIONS of more people. A want of actual shepherding in the churches.
Is a typical church with one pastor being shepherded as they scripturally should be?
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WT Elders school: The WTS has progressed from just plain stupid to dangerously stupid
by sir82 infresh off the recent 1-day elders school.
to keep things readable i'll post "highlights" over the next several days in different topics.
point 1: they have progressed from "just plain" stupid to dangerously stupid.. .
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Ethos
Romans 15:4 "For all things written aforetime for our instruction, that through our endurance and COMFORT from the scriptures we might have hope." If you take a superficial viewpoint of Job, yeah it's depressing and using the account may come across as nonsensical. But it's similar to the Psalms...or a Victorian novel. Through the adversity and perseverance of others, we teach ourselves how to cope and handle trying situations. EVERY situation does not call for professional help, therefore it shouldnt be expected that they suggest that this be mentioned in such a case. But, as spiritual overseers, it is their responsibility (primarily) to be of any spiritual assistance they can to the congregation.
Obviously the elders can use their discernment and recommend professional help. The WTS doesnt have to tell them every little common sense thing to do. I think the point of the video was illustrating how elders can use the Bible inffectively and perhaps pour salt on an open wound.
Isn't it interesting that the elders are so heavily criticized for trying to do what they are SUPPOSED to do (according to the Bible). Nevermind the fact that they do this WILLINGLY and without pay, unlike 90%of religious leaders today.
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529
Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos ini agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.
i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.
therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.
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Ethos
Contradicting yourself now are we? Everyone go back to page 1 and read post 4. You will see that I quoted his entire response save one or two sentences and he's stating I ignored the bulk of his argument. Then he says he's talking about Jeremiah 29 when he is responding to a rebuttal to a premise about Jeremiah 25 and his entire response was defending his interpretation of the 70 years, which is only mentioned in Jeremiah 25. And if you believe the same secular evidence is used for 587 and 539, then it is you who needs to do research. Ok...done replying forreal this time. Out of posts.
So heres a question for Jeffros: Was the argument about Jeremiah 25 or 29? Is the 70 years of servitude, the core of the subject, mentioned in Jeremiah 25 or 29? Were we discussing at any time any reference made in Jeremiah 29? Did I or did I not quote your entire response on page 1 save one or two sentences? Sounds like somebody needs a cop out for their blatantly erroneous errors and shaky conclusions arrived at without premises. Jeremiah 25 is ADDRESSING the entire nation and saying they will serve Neb for70 years. Jeremiah 29 is referring to a completely different supposed exile and mentions the 70 years. So what? Its a weak argument either way. There are two exiles. Proving one started before the 70 year servitude proves squat. Oh, this is such a laughable attempt at defending.one's argument. Jeremiah 29 is about the exile that took place before Jerusalem's destruction.
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Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos ini agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.
i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.
therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.
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Ethos
You need to go back and reread..Jeffro specifically stated Jeremiah 25:8-11 and responded to my response to premise one which is also referencing Jeremiah 25. Im not sure if it would be wise to start a thread when I can barely keep up with this one. Maybe when I am alloted more posts, though. I'll respond to everything in the afternoon. Also its not circular reasoning because the secular evidence used for 539 is not the same as 587. As if that red herring holds any weight though...as if JWs dont use secular resourcs in most of their publications.
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Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos ini agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.
i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.
therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.
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Ethos
All the time I have today....be back later
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Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos ini agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.
i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.
therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.
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Ethos
Quote from notjustyet: "Your main argument was that when the temple utensils were returned then the 70 years ended. I asked you where did you get this in the Bible as I can find any evidence in the Bible that the 70 years ends once the utensils are returned. You have yet to provide that scripture. I even pointed you to a prophecy in Jeremiah that totally refutes your argument and that points out that the utensils will only be returned two years after the 70 years. You then told me that this prophecy was false because it was from Hananiah. I corrected you in your statement as Jeremiah ratified this prophecy therefore it was not false." (END OF QUOTE)
Actually, I'd like to thank you for referencing the false prophecy by Hannaniah in Jeremiah 28. In fact, it only argue my case. Let me show you, how all of Jeremiah 28 is a false prophecy, even though Jeremiah did say "Amen", because he momentarily perceived it to be a message from a true prophet sent by Jehovah. Read verses 15-18 "And Jeremiah the prophet went on to say to Han·a·ni′ah the prophet: “Listen, please, O Han·a·ni′ah! Jehovah has not sent you, but you yourself have caused this people to trust in a falsehood. 16 Therefore this is what Jehovah has said, ‘Look! I am sending you away from off the surface of the ground. This year you yourself must die, for you have spoken outright revolt against Jehovah.’”
17 So Han·a·ni′ah the prophet died in that year, in the seventh month.." None of what Hannaniah was actually a sentiment or a statement on behalf of Jehovah, and he was punished for it. But his false prophecy is interesting because it completely solidifies my argument.Jeremiah 28:1 "2 “This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, has said, ‘I will break the yoke of the king of Babylon. 3 Within two full years more I am bringing back to this place all the utensils of the house of Jehovah that Neb·u·chad·nez′zar the king of Babylon took from this place that he might bring them to Babylon .’”
So you see, even the Jews associated the breaking of the yoke of the king of Babylon with the returning of the temple utensils. This is exactly what I have previously stated. Even though the prophecy turned out to be false and he was not an actual envoy for Jehovah, it shows that there was still an association between the two. You asked for a scripture connecting Jeremiah 25 and Jeremiah 51:
Jeremiah 25:17 "And I proceeded to take the cup out of the hand of Jehovah and to make all the nations drink to whom Jehovah had sent me: 18 namely, Jerusalem and the cities of Judah and her kings, her princes, to make them a devastated place, an object of astonishment...For this is what Jehovah the God of Israel said to me: “Take this cup of the wine of rage out of my hand, and you must make all the nations to whom I am sending you drink it. 16 And they must drink and shake back and forth and act like crazed men because of the sword that I am sending among them.."
Jeremiah 51:7 "Babylon has been a golden cup in the hand of Jehovah, she making all the earth drunk. From her wine the nations have drunk. That is why the nations keep acting crazed."
Besides the symbolic, metaphorical "wine" connecting the two passages, they are both about the punishment of Babylon for its error and it's destruction it caused to the nations, as well as the destruction it will soon suffer.
Jeremiah 25:12, 13 "‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de′ans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite. 13 And I will bring in upon that land all my words that I have spoken against it.."
Jeremiah 51:1 "This is what Jehovah has said: “Here I am rousing up against Babylon and against the inhabitants of Leb-ka′mai a ruinous wind; 2 and I will send to Babylon winnowers who will certainly winnow her and who will make her land empty; for they will actually prove to be against her on all sides in the day of calamity...For clear to the heavens her judgment has reached, and it has been lifted up to the cloudy skies."
The connections are there, plain and obvious to all. I could even quote mainstream Christian sources that link the two passages as they are almost identical. Note: No interpretation offered, simply showing how the two passages are interlinked and similar. Jeremiah 51 renders the judgement against Babylon for taking the temple utensils, Hannaniah confirms that that was a common belief among the Jews, and Jeremiah 25 is linked to Jeremiah 51 harmonizing the sequence of events.