Science has often diminished the perspective of our central position in the cosmos, from Ptolemy to Copernicus to our own Galaxy universe ( 1920s) to now. --just one of billions of other galaxies, Our comparative size, importance has steadily shrunk, so, with the cause of the present universe as a prime target of researchers, the answer might shrink our status further, yet we are the ones asking the questions, have these beliefs. these hypotheses.
prologos
JoinedPosts by prologos
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160
Beliefs About What Caused the Universe
by Perry inthe universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.
whatever begins to exist had a cause.
therefore the universe had a cause.
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Jehovah Witness vs Jehovah's Witness
by Simon inbeing brought up as a jehovah's witness means you are so used to the term that you rarely stop to think about it.. one thing i've noticed is that people unfamiliar with the religion will say "jehovah witness" (no 's) instead which i always found a bit grating.. but watching the us election, something struck me.
people are often referred to as "trump supporters", not "trump's supporters" and so on.
thinking about other things, people would say they were "united fan's", not "united's fans" and so on.. it seems weird that a group would refer to themselves as though it was someone else talking about them (in the 3rd person, if i have that right).. what do you think?
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prologos
I am one of Trump's supporters or I am one of the many Trump supporters? -
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prologos
FD:--go to the colors. the A, the arrow down, and make it white. -
160
Beliefs About What Caused the Universe
by Perry inthe universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.
whatever begins to exist had a cause.
therefore the universe had a cause.
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prologos
GG I see now: "--17 times God says that he manipulated space and time to “stretch” out the heavens.--" I did not realize that Perry considered the expansion of space into time** a "manipulation" of creation. Of course, by nature, space has expanded, at times perhaps inflationary, from the singularity to its "present" size. That is why the first light is now the Cosmic Background radiation, redshifted to only a few degrees above 0 degrees Kelvin, a very cold, long wavelength, but still arriving at the 300 000 km/sec clip. If Perry really believes the ~ 14 billion were stretched out of the biblical 6000 years original creative days, he would have still some serious learning to do. Even the wt writers now ascribe the term "eons" to the time between creative milestones.
** I do not think time would have been stretched too, surely the duration of a second was not shorter in the past? or?
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160
Beliefs About What Caused the Universe
by Perry inthe universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.
whatever begins to exist had a cause.
therefore the universe had a cause.
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prologos
M_ B: :--because the time itself did not existed before/outside this Universe.
This idea has been asserted here many times, but some modern hypothesis require time to have existed in the pre- big bang conditions too, what is unique is our moving through time. The "beginning" question you raise, might just be one of scale.
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160
Beliefs About What Caused the Universe
by Perry inthe universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.
whatever begins to exist had a cause.
therefore the universe had a cause.
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prologos
C: "Welcome to the forum Giles Gray.
Excellent maiden post. I second that, and would like to hear more from you, to answer the points you raised about Perry's ideas on expansion, stretching, can you go back and quote, copy and past these instances so we can make the connections ? thank until soon!. P.
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88
What was there before the Big Bang?
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpuhj98vjoa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hik8hj0_t9q.
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prologos
Twitch: What really is time? If time is the dimension of duration, it is durable dur=tough, perhaps that why it always was, eternal, before the Big bang?
Twitch: what is an instant? in our movement through time, the now, at any instant is of zero length, that is why time is so precious, it comes in such small quantities for us. Our brains have so much inertia in their function, that time is sensed in us in increments, like brain waves. Could we one day measure a "Plank" duration, the smallest distance possible to move through time, the true instant? Such discovery would be relevant when we explore the cause of the big bang, surely. just putting these ideas out there.
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88
What was there before the Big Bang?
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpuhj98vjoa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hik8hj0_t9q.
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prologos
Twitch: "--Defining time in such a way is circular and logically inconsistent. perhaps not, because the two terms of the equation describe movement, one through the 3 space dimensions, and the other the duration, or movement through time, the 4st dimension. logically then, the faster you cover ground, the slower or less you move through time, at the speed of light, you stop moving through time. Time of course is key to causality, that of the Beginning Big Bang being the big question. very good post, and one of the few bible truism: Jesus in Acts 1:7: "-- It is not given to you to understand time--"
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241
Another generation....
by joey jojo init has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?
the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.
the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.
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prologos
F: "--the ingathering continues, -- so in your view, is the 1935 generation destined to be declared overlapping too? (did not Rutherford in 1935 say at an assembly: " Behold the Great Multitude?") then and there? ?did you get the point though,
Wt predicts that the "anointed" generation will not see "all the things " before they pass away, gathered to heaven, before Armageddon. But that contradicts what Jesus, who said : The disciples, that generation really, will " NOT PASS AWAY" until the destruction is finished. Which was the case in the real fulfillment. The apostles walked.
The wt "anointed" generation is already a degenerate teaching before we even see how it fails in its simple final fulfillment.
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241
Another generation....
by joey jojo init has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?
the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.
the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.
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prologos
Vh: "The generation Jesus was referring to was His own. We understand Vanderhoven, and that talk has it's own problems. we are discussing the wt's generation permutations.
The Jesus generation prophecy had the "anointed" ak Christians survive all these things, the destruction, "--flee to the mountains--" in the latest
Wt generation prediction, the "anointed" do not survive even the first stage, let alone the final destruction, they are rapture before it all ends. and that is only the predictions, We are discussing the reality, the happenings, and the generations no matter how you slice them are all going, they are not seeing "all these things that are destined to occur". that is why we demur.