Posts by prologos

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

TD: yes your points refuting the wt doctrines are more detailed than my simplistic " here are the facts", and they are funny' treatment. I hope many lurkers can see the futility, the contradictions. thank you.

: "--Any way you look at it, an "Earthly hope" is not a doctrine that can be taught longer than about a generation or so.: Yes if you a mean a generation that will never die, one generation at a time. never die 1918. never die 1935, never die 1975 -- ad infini.

: :--allowing for the existence of "Other Sheep" in the Christian era who are not "Identical with that "great crowd"" removes that reward. Explain please ? The Christian Era is ~ 2000 years, , the Great Crowd aspirant time slot only 80-100 long. I thought wt taught that all but the anointed (about 80 per year) would be sheeplike resurrected on the Earth , like the Catholic " --I believe in the resurrection of the flesh--"?

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

prologos

TD: "---You have absolutely zero prospect of surviving an event you will never live to see. 100% agreement on that. here is my reasoning on wt's weird world view according to their writings:

All members of the great crowd are Other Sheep (Earthly Hopers), but not all Other Sheep are members of the Great Crowd.

The Great Crowd comes out of the Great Tribulation, so exists only After Armageddon. Even Abel, the quintescential OS will only be resurrected in Paradise. so: Since

The wt "generation" is the anointed remnant, and the Other sheep by any definition exist only since John the Baptist , less than "the smallest in heaven"), There really is no great crowd now, only aspirants, while they still breathe. (pun intended). After all, they are supposed to say "Salvation we owe--" a fait accompli' -that's only for the ones that "endure to the [bitter] end".-- yet to come.--Now,

Do you want to introduce a tentative "Great Crowd Generation" starting in 1935 ? -- that would be great too, it would dovetail with our old wt teaching that the GT started in 1014, was interrupted in 1918, to allow the Great Crowd to get out of it (and her), and then only restart at Armageddon, soon, just around the corner.. so, 1935 is better than 1914, it would give us octogenarians a fighting chance. Too bad the Forward Fred Franz overlappers will last to ~ 2075. Might my reasoning be too simplistic?

TD: "God's infallible word depicts this group as 'coming out of the great tribulation,' being survivors of it, living right on into God's New Order without ever having to die. (Revelation. Do you see a difference between being a survivor and coming out of (without going into)?

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

prologos

TD: I am a deist, and I too discuss these matter only to show the inconsistencies in wt theology. Their limiting the calling, assured salvation to the sealed anointed and that over the period of 2000 years, consigns the rest of mankind to be the earthly class, the OS, the 12 tribes over which the anointed will eventually rule. That the Great Crowd are the Other Sheep, is a flaky, latter day wt invention, for most scholars agree that the Other Sheep are the Gentile Christians that followed the pattern of Cornelius. or? TD, as you well said: ---technically JWs are only "prospective" members of the Great Crowd. so: the Great Crowd is not under the "this Generation" constraint. It will appear only after "all these things have occurred," whereas the anointed overlappers will be gone before all these things happen. That is where wt contradicts Jesus.

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

prologos

TD: "--There were no other sheep in the year, 1776, for example.) are you sure? Wt might not realize it either?

1) An OS might be identified as one who has an earthly destiny, through resurrection or survival, and there are more deaths than 144 k in the last millennia.

2) The sealed, anointed come out of the 12 tribes of Israel, a group that wt has consistently labelled as the earthly class. That sealing started at Pentecost , or Stephen's death, so the millions of partakers that were awaiting the New Earth, not just the heavens, by default, must be Other, earthly Sheep.or? --of course,

If there was no Faithful and Discreet Slave during the Apostles' days, so, why would there be Other sheep?

Van 7: "-- come out of the Great Tribulation (Revelation 7:14). However, as WT teaching dictates that the Tribulation is still future, --great point V7, but wt has admitted in wt April 15 1995, questions from readers, that the GC is described only after the GT. but Rev, say come out of , not pass through!

The idea of deathless survival in wt teaching predates 1935 of course: " --Millions now living will never die!" wt published ca.1918. With that they predicted at least 2 million ~100 year old baptized faithful publishers, with at least 15 minutes/month reporting in 2016. wow! that's what I call confidence.

9

When you were really "in", did you have a pet idea that would steer wt into divine favor?

by prologos in

wt writers ( klein) admitted at one time, that his majesty's doctrinal ship was zigzagging to find the right course, and many of us believed, that if we accepted the bible as true, cleaning up the teachings would establish the right bearing.

so: did you have a hobby-horse idea you were riding?

writing to brooklyn perhaps?

prologos

Anders Andersen: "believing that 'extended talking snake tale' (lol @ that). My pet project as in the OP was to base my observation, course corrections on the belief in the bible, it being the inspired, the inerrant Word of God. well, with the creator emerging imhop as the great scientist that he/ she is, only a handful of bible references are accurate. It is truly a Spin-on of the talking snake store. without that fable, there is no original sin, no need for the ransom, paying of ransom, slaving for the Guardians Of the talking snake Doctrine. I get great satisfaction of thinking, listening to a pompous pontification from the platform, " this person really believes in talking snakes!, asses (donkeys) RNWT!"

20

Being Positive around family that are still in.

by freddo in

jw
friends

if you are a fader or you have reduced activity markedly - say resigned as a pioneer or an elder or ms or gone inactive and still have some relationship with your immediate family or spouse - how do you stay positive around them when you feel like shaking them out of their stupor but believe deep down it would be counter productive?.

thoughts from all most welcome..

prologos

Positively show them during weekly bible reading, daily text how they have to better prepare to defend the truth. like : how do you explain the overlapping generation when you are at the doors? work to make them sharper, more knowledgeable witnesses.

Recent text was about Moses with the wisdom of the Egyptians. Clever people those Nile Dwellers, being able to build the Pyramids, while water lapped at the peak of Mount Everest. prepare to defend your faith!

56

Generation expiry date?

by pleaseresearch in

how long will it take for a jw to see that even the overlapping generation is wrong?.

the org waited and waited to see if their interpretation of it came true.

those alive in 1914 would still be alive obviously it didn't and jws have to believe in an overlapping generation.

prologos

Lieu: "--'the Gentile Times' have in no way 'ended' yeah The Gentiles are doing really well, so are the fleshly Israelites went to the moon, landing robots on mars, head for the stars, hunger is gone for most. vaccines are working. painkillers kill pain. and: Babylon the Great has not fallen either, is assertive as ever, if you consider Islam, the Red Rule in China among them. No need to generate more generation gyrations.

9

When you were really "in", did you have a pet idea that would steer wt into divine favor?

by prologos in

wt writers ( klein) admitted at one time, that his majesty's doctrinal ship was zigzagging to find the right course, and many of us believed, that if we accepted the bible as true, cleaning up the teachings would establish the right bearing.

so: did you have a hobby-horse idea you were riding?

writing to brooklyn perhaps?

prologos

AA: "-- he said they wouldn't get married but 'be like angels'. I always covered the two possible outcomes by referring to male nipples, possibly under the angels garments or the 6 wings, those breast ornaments never seem to raise our desire to nurse children in men right?, and ladies desires are hormone driven, so, as "children of the resurrection", without those chemicals urging you on, why would you have the maddening intense desire to procreate?

"--will we see children that never made it because of a miscarriage? Sorry for you about that experience, good though, because miscarriages might be nature's way of stopping an unviable fetus to go on. I had the unfortunate experience to actually see the expelled embryo, because it was happening in an emergency hospital. No point of a resurrection there, except a re-implant into the healed womb, so, You must be talking of a very late term interruption, perhaps when a name was already picked, which we experienced too.

Just discussing the text, without endorsing the extended talking snake tale.

9

When you were really "in", did you have a pet idea that would steer wt into divine favor?

by prologos in

wt writers ( klein) admitted at one time, that his majesty's doctrinal ship was zigzagging to find the right course, and many of us believed, that if we accepted the bible as true, cleaning up the teachings would establish the right bearing.

so: did you have a hobby-horse idea you were riding?

writing to brooklyn perhaps?

prologos

That is a very interesting analogy. I have to sleep on that. Wt would not be interested. how would money flow out of that pot at the end of your refracted rainbow? Their internal glow can not grow.

9

When you were really "in", did you have a pet idea that would steer wt into divine favor?

by prologos in

wt writers ( klein) admitted at one time, that his majesty's doctrinal ship was zigzagging to find the right course, and many of us believed, that if we accepted the bible as true, cleaning up the teachings would establish the right bearing.

so: did you have a hobby-horse idea you were riding?

writing to brooklyn perhaps?

prologos

WT writers ( Klein) admitted at one time, that His Majesty's doctrinal Ship was zigzagging to find the right course, and many of us believed, that if we accepted the Bible as true, cleaning up the teachings would establish the right bearing. so: Did you have a hobby-horse idea you were riding? Writing to Brooklyn perhaps? button holing whoever would listen? here was mine:

We were all Spiritual Israelites, not just the partakers. key text: Rev.7. the sealed come out of the 12 tribes, so the members of these tribes must be greater and more numerous than the 144 000 spread over ~ 2000 years.

As Shakespeare, presently in vogue, might say : "much ado about nothing", yet it is interesting to dwell into these follies.