Posts by prologos

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

prologos

the spirit realm where angels and god supposedly reside would prove that a system of life can exist without such

I can think of bible passages that prove that pain and misery exist in that supposed biblical spirit realm too, even eternally. . right? so:

We have to observe nature, its laws and use it, and face reality. Pain might be more tolerable in many cases than we think, without predation, vegetarians would destroy the planet, the "design" is a balance. do not take suffering so personal. Because It is not getting any better than you can make it, that seems the message from the maker.*

*The maker* can not possibly be also the author or proofreader of the bible and wt literature. bsw.

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

prologos

Saethydd, you asked: Why would a creator with such a high regard for life specifically design a universe in which all life slowly decays?

because slow decay, and also violent ends, provides for screening of desirable outcomes in life's evolution as well as in inanimate mature. example,

generations of stars died, faded away, or compressed in violent collapses, Super Novae.

both types of death have produced all the abundant element we need, all made from Hydrogen.

Dying is good for us, as a whole. possibly done without the creator lifting so much of a finger, after the creation event.

not speaking for the wt/bible god here, but a possible creator, defined only as observed by the action of his creation.

18

The "anointed generation" is wrong, not because it is dragging on too long, but because it is too short.

by prologos in

jesus taught a surviving generation, a group inhering everlasting life, an escape route to avoid a global disaster worse than the flood, a generation that "will not pass away--" an infinite generation.

wt teaches a generation that dies, ends, passes away, at the first sign of real trouble, the great tribulation.. what do you believe about this wt assertion?

(apart from that there is no talking snake, it is all irrelevant).

prologos

megaboy you said: Keep in mind he talked in riddles to seperate people who didn't care, from people who really wanted to know what he was about.

megaboy; a great observation, but in this text, Math. 24-25 we have specific questions asked by very interested people, and answered in a private audience. The question, verse 3, basically was " -when -- the end of this world? " so, my opening proposition is entirely time - based, "--long vs short--" of the important ,central" this generation." question.

time would not pass away until seeing all of these described tribulations by either hearing about it or seeing it personally, and it would continually cycle through these things until his return, progressively getting worse.

megaboy: a great summary what has really happened. What you are saying is, that the generation is not only overlapping, but has done so since 033. ha ha ha. but

My observation was not about the overlap, but the end of the " Anointed only" generation invented by wt. That wt generation ends before Armageddon, way too short, for, in Jesus' total answer, the sheep in the last generation go on, go into Life Eternal.

Your's in an ongoing generation, as I read it, part of the last generation is supposed to be going into life eternal. --Would that not be a unexpected surprise for all of us; therefore:

isn't the wt anointed generation way too short? even if it had to be already stretched by overlapping?

12

Who of us has ever thought, 'What's the point? I'm going to die anyway'

by Funchback in

when i truly believed the jws had the truth, i usually reverted back to 'what's the point?

i'm going to die anyway' as a way to justify for doing so-called bad things or not doing so-called good things in jw land.. i shouldn't be watching this r-rated movie.

(why stop?

prologos

the probability of dying anyway, the very next year even, gets better and better, as one approaches ~90. so, I am packing a lot of serious fun living into the moments I pass through. not bitter, better.

obviously I consider writing, reading here serious fun. thank you Simon.

p.s. I don't want to die just any old way, I just want to die really really old. anyway.

19

Jeremiah 10:23 - "...It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step."

by HereIgo in

i have been accused recently of "trying to direct my own step" because of my questioning the org and refusing to come back to the "truth" for the past 6 years.

i personally still believe in god, i just doubt that he is behind the jw org, that's all.

why is that so hard for jw's to understand?

prologos

That is why men should marry only women that are smarter than they are, but who are smart enough not to let their men in on that fact. so

how do we know that " step directing" woman are smarter than men? : by the choices they make in picking their mates.

4

How does the overlapping generation ( interpretation) apply to these scriptures ? ,part 2.

by smiddy in

i wonder how the overlapping generation interpretation by the wt /jw religion applys to these scriptures reffering to a generation or these generations.. a generation reffering to one that the bible scriptures acknowledge is approximately 50 years in length give or take a few years.. mathtew chap 1:abraham born in 2018 , jesus born in 2 bc , =2016 divided by 42 generations as stated in matthew chapter 1 amounts to 43 years for a generation.. so how does an overlapping generation fit in with the wt interpretation with this scripture for a generation.?.

obviously an overlapping generation does not apply here .. so when does the jw/gb apply an overlapping generaration and when do they not apply an overlapping generation ?.

prologos

Go to prologos' topic just one slot above. megaboy has made a contribution there, well worth reading. He says " it is deliberately spoken of in riddles to weed out the uninterested."

it is the same with the "The Searcher" -likes" on this forum here, we only attract a few readers, even if we do not speak in riddles, but our motive is to prove that wt is wrong because the doctrines do not fit the scriptures they are based on, but few care.

smiddy, your topic here (2) is about the length of a natural generation. There is poster here, who had a child at 80 plus. (it is not a lady user, bsw) ( no, he is a lady user!), mirth aside, There are of course bible characters that deferred procreation until 120. and mothers at a Guinness - worth 9. so: your 30-40 averages here are good arguments against the 2 groups of wt overlapped and overlappees not being a sound concept. now,

My propositon above is, that the wt generation is proved wrong not only by the odious overtime overlap that jws are running into, but that

Jesus was actually talking about an everlasting generation. proof?: read the last 2 words of the his discourse, Math. 25:26.

doing great work, Smiddy, Searcher, dont quit.

18

The "anointed generation" is wrong, not because it is dragging on too long, but because it is too short.

by prologos in

jesus taught a surviving generation, a group inhering everlasting life, an escape route to avoid a global disaster worse than the flood, a generation that "will not pass away--" an infinite generation.

wt teaches a generation that dies, ends, passes away, at the first sign of real trouble, the great tribulation.. what do you believe about this wt assertion?

(apart from that there is no talking snake, it is all irrelevant).

prologos

Any attack on Christianity having the strawman JW theology as base is pure nonsense.

John_Mann, thank you: well put, but the headline, based on Kennedy's moon program quote, is not an attack on Christianity, but a proposition to expose wt's faulty move to introduce the "anointed" generation, abandoning the accepted idea, that Jesus must have been talking about ordinary folks living, listening right then and there. The thread is to rub wr's noses into their own charts to prove to their followers that the anointed come up short, and wrong. again.

fukitol you wrote: "When did the great tribulation occur back then? 70AD when the Romans sacked Jerusalem.

you are right, even if mark and followers really wrote about prophesy after the fact. but wt has taken these words to be relevant in the millennia to come, and the "Generation is too short, not too long" headline wants to prove that this particular "anointed" is flawed , just by not conforming to the Matthew text. a still birth of a doctrine.

lest we forget: The anointed generation is the central doctrine of WTBtS now. it should not be left to be proven wrong in 2075, but now. It is too short. time to abort.

30

Is it morally wrong to put Watchtower behind?

by Darkknight757 in

with our latest and final run in with the elders, the wife and i had a very long talk about what's next in our life.

do we try to help others see the light as it were concerning watchtower or do we just let it go and move on with our life?

we have made it perfectly clear that we will never go back to watchtower and we are finally happy.

prologos

-- behind? no, It is not morally wrong, but using the roll is feels softer. even if you try back issues.

32

"Religion of Peace" Busy In Europe Today...

by freemindfade in

turkey and now berlin, the abrahamic mind virus strikes again... actually there is no confirmation the truck attack was islam, but... it's probably islam.

at least in europe, they call terrorist attacks just that, unlike here in america, we have become so crazy we have clear terrorist attacks, some over a year old now that they still question the motive ala san bernadino.. religion .

prologos

too bad merkel is no Margaret Thatcher, all these invader would be chased to the end of the world, where they belong.

Obvious question: why are we releasing these people? Illegal, known links to terrorism, looking to buy a gun and they let him go?

Simon, The law has no teeth, is outdated to deal with the vast numbers of extra-judicial young men present. The police does not act, because they are scared. They are being followed home from work, their lives, their families are threatened. the truck hijack is only the tip of the iceberg, chilling.

56

need to "stay alive to xx75" to prove wt wrong? again?

by prologos in

you dont have be alive to 2075 to prove that the wt's anointed generation is and will prove to be wrong, it is!

and you can do it now, by asking just one question:.

does the "generation" prophecy of math.

prologos

TD, good find. last night I was looking at the greek text too, and it appears that the word "occur" in verse 34 has the same root as "generation", so, It seems natural then, that wt (and as sparky1 mentioned) we here too, can "generate", or have occurr to us, various definitions of the generation.

if even one of the "generation" is left standing, which is not at all what the Jesus character actually said.)

TD: yes, your idea is supported by the context, in verse 37 referring to the near mass extinction, triage of all those present during the flood. on the broader theme:

wt illustrations like the KR book, page 225 shows their "anointed generation" lasting until the battle of Armageddon, so the time line includes more than just the sign, but all what the Jesus character mentions after verse 34, with that emphasised negative. Amazingly his speech concludes, the last word, with zoen aionion , life everlasting, emphasising the "no, not passing" for the generation, which, according to chapter 25 would be the Sheep, rather than the anointed "brothers of Christ" exclusively.

The generation does not pass after the sign, it does not even pass after Armageddon, it can not possibly the wt shortened anointed generation.