Thanks Orphancrow.
This may turn out to be a promising lead.
Saintbertholdt
JoinedPosts by Saintbertholdt
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Request For Information: 1935 trial of Paul Balzereit
by Saintbertholdt inhas anyone ever come across the court transcript of the trial of paul balzereit by the nazi state in december 1935 in halle?.
or has anyone come across the 1936 german yearbook article discussing the matter?.
the transcript incensed rutherford which resulted in balzereit being publicly disfellowshipped.. the watchtower corporation seems to have kept a transcript because they quoted out of it in the 1974 yearbook.. anyway below is what rutherford wrote in an open letter to the german witnesses in 1936 (as you probably already know):.
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Request For Information: 1935 trial of Paul Balzereit
by Saintbertholdt inhas anyone ever come across the court transcript of the trial of paul balzereit by the nazi state in december 1935 in halle?.
or has anyone come across the 1936 german yearbook article discussing the matter?.
the transcript incensed rutherford which resulted in balzereit being publicly disfellowshipped.. the watchtower corporation seems to have kept a transcript because they quoted out of it in the 1974 yearbook.. anyway below is what rutherford wrote in an open letter to the german witnesses in 1936 (as you probably already know):.
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Saintbertholdt
Hi coalize,
Thank you for trying. I've been looking as well and I can't find it.
Perhaps a copy of the German 1936 yearbook?
Supposedly the matter was also discussed there.
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Request For Information: 1935 trial of Paul Balzereit
by Saintbertholdt inhas anyone ever come across the court transcript of the trial of paul balzereit by the nazi state in december 1935 in halle?.
or has anyone come across the 1936 german yearbook article discussing the matter?.
the transcript incensed rutherford which resulted in balzereit being publicly disfellowshipped.. the watchtower corporation seems to have kept a transcript because they quoted out of it in the 1974 yearbook.. anyway below is what rutherford wrote in an open letter to the german witnesses in 1936 (as you probably already know):.
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Saintbertholdt
Hi there Magnum,
"I don't remember ever hearing about this. I'd like to know more. What exactly was it that Balzereit did or didn't do that so incensed Rutherford?"
Balzereit was the head of the German branch. After the preaching ban in 1933 Balzereit wanted to placate the Nazis whereas Rutherford wanted to take a hard line because the Magdesburg printing presses and property had been seized.
The German witnesses split in two. One group (the majority) stopped preaching whereas the second group (a couple of thousand) kept on preaching. When Balzereit was arrested in 1935 Rutherford charged that during the trial Balzereit denied ever having promoted illegally preaching after the ban. Its unclear whether he had and was lying or whether he actually listened to the ban.
Rutherford had wanted Balzereit to martyr himself through the trial. When Balzereit didn't he was excommunicated. Rutherford accomplished two things with this:
1. He got rid of Balzereit who irritated him.
2. He sent a clear message to all the German witnesses: You better preach or else you're out.
The Nazi court didn't believe Balzereit had always abided by the ban and sentenced him to two and a half years in prison.
I would like to see the transcript because I want to see the evidence (if any) that was brought against Balzereit and what the exact original charges were.
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Request For Information: 1935 trial of Paul Balzereit
by Saintbertholdt inhas anyone ever come across the court transcript of the trial of paul balzereit by the nazi state in december 1935 in halle?.
or has anyone come across the 1936 german yearbook article discussing the matter?.
the transcript incensed rutherford which resulted in balzereit being publicly disfellowshipped.. the watchtower corporation seems to have kept a transcript because they quoted out of it in the 1974 yearbook.. anyway below is what rutherford wrote in an open letter to the german witnesses in 1936 (as you probably already know):.
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Saintbertholdt
Hi there all,
Has anyone ever come across the court transcript of the trial of Paul Balzereit by the Nazi state in December 1935 in Halle?
Or has anyone come across the 1936 German yearbook article discussing the matter?
The transcript incensed Rutherford which resulted in Balzereit being publicly disfellowshipped.
The Watchtower corporation seems to have kept a transcript because they quoted out of it in the 1974 Yearbook.
Anyway below is what Rutherford wrote in an open letter to the German witnesses in 1936 (as you probably already know):
“To Jehovah’s faithful people in Germany:
“In spite of the wicked persecution upon you, and the great opposition put forth by Satan’s agents in that land, it is gratifying to know that the Lord still has a few thousand in that country who have faith in Him and who persist in proclaiming the message of His kingdom. Your faithfulness in standing out against the persecutors and remaining true to the Lord is in striking contrast to the action taken by the one who formerly was the manager for the Society in Germany, and others associated with him. Recently a copy of the testimony taken at the trial of those men at Halle has been furnished to me and I am astounded to find therein not one of those on trial at that time gave a faithful and true testimony to the name of Jehovah. It was especially incumbent upon the former manager Balzereit to hold high the banner of the Lord and declare himself for God and his kingdom amidst all opposition, but not one word was uttered showing his complete reliance upon Jehovah. Time and again I had called his attention to the fact of things that could be done in Germany and he assured me that he was putting forth every effort to encourage the brethren to get on with the testimony. But at the trial he emphatically stated that nothing was done. It is needless for me to here discuss that further. Suffice it to say that the Society will henceforth have nothing to do with him, nor any of those who on that occasion had an opportunity to bear testimony to the name of Jehovah and His kingdom and failed to do so. The Society will put forth no effort looking to release them from prison, even if it had the power to do anything.
“Let now all those who love the Lord turn their faces to Him, Jehovah and His King, and remain true and steadfast on the side of the kingdom, regardless of all opposition that may come to you. . . .”
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27 Questions
by Saintbertholdt ini've been on and off the forum for a couple of years now.
mostly lurking.. the last time i set foot in a kingdom hall was back in 2005 before i disassociated myself formally.. over the years i've kept up with the doctrinal changes and changes in practices.
the problem is that because i haven't been practically experiencing these changes, much of the new information has not stuck clearly in my head.
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Saintbertholdt
FadingTruth
"need greaters" - So they're basically missionaries brought in to train up elders and ministerial serpents.
oh by the way, do people still use the term PO or are they using COBE? lol
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27 Questions
by Saintbertholdt ini've been on and off the forum for a couple of years now.
mostly lurking.. the last time i set foot in a kingdom hall was back in 2005 before i disassociated myself formally.. over the years i've kept up with the doctrinal changes and changes in practices.
the problem is that because i haven't been practically experiencing these changes, much of the new information has not stuck clearly in my head.
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Saintbertholdt
The travel time is often not counted directly after the group for FService has been taken, but if you 'started' before the group then you would likely count your travel time as well.
Ah yes I remember now
thanks
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27 Questions
by Saintbertholdt ini've been on and off the forum for a couple of years now.
mostly lurking.. the last time i set foot in a kingdom hall was back in 2005 before i disassociated myself formally.. over the years i've kept up with the doctrinal changes and changes in practices.
the problem is that because i haven't been practically experiencing these changes, much of the new information has not stuck clearly in my head.
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Saintbertholdt
Hi Lemonparty,
What a name!
6 - There has been a questions from readers addressing the rising annointed. They put it down to new people not understanding and people with mental problems.
"Memorial partakers. This is the number of baptized individuals who partake of the emblems at the Memorial worldwide. Does this total represent the number of anointed ones on earth? Not necessarily. A number of factors — including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance — might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know." Watchtower 2011 Aug 15 p.22
"nor do we need to know." - Then why count them? :)
23 - An upcoming WT study article now equates apostates with the Anti-Christ.Oh I get where they're going with this one: Many anti-Christs in the last days.
24 - The last two months have been a doozy of new light. March Study Edition
Types and Anti types have been thrown out the window.Um not sure what you mean. Refresh my memory/ Enlighten me :)
1919 is no longer the date that they received divine appointment. (not sure WHEN they received it now)Whoah! That is big news. The entire divine appointment hinges on 1919.What now????
More importantly now to be part of the "sheep" and not the "goats" of Jesus' parable the defining factor is support of the FDS
Yes. Zig Heil and all that.
Now the remaining living annointed will be raptured at the end of the Great Tribulation. (not sure if this means that no one is in heaven yet)
Hahahahaha. They can never make up their mind about the remnant.Flip flop. Flip flop.
Thanks
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27 Questions
by Saintbertholdt ini've been on and off the forum for a couple of years now.
mostly lurking.. the last time i set foot in a kingdom hall was back in 2005 before i disassociated myself formally.. over the years i've kept up with the doctrinal changes and changes in practices.
the problem is that because i haven't been practically experiencing these changes, much of the new information has not stuck clearly in my head.
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Saintbertholdt
Hi there FadingTruth,
4. Presiding Overseer is called the Coordinator for the Body of Elders, or COBEThanks for that. I thought it had changed. Do they still use the term PO in everyday speech? Is Jesus now called the Chief Information Officer? :)
12. "Need Greaters". Maybe I wasn't paying attention before, but this latest Watchtower study was the first time I read that expression in print.What does "Need Greaters" mean?
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27 Questions
by Saintbertholdt ini've been on and off the forum for a couple of years now.
mostly lurking.. the last time i set foot in a kingdom hall was back in 2005 before i disassociated myself formally.. over the years i've kept up with the doctrinal changes and changes in practices.
the problem is that because i haven't been practically experiencing these changes, much of the new information has not stuck clearly in my head.
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Saintbertholdt
Hi Splash,
Thanks for your answers. I have new questions based upon your answers.
2. If so can they count their travel times also? NO
The reason why I asked is because my girlfriend/fiance used to be a full time pioneer. She would start counting time whenever she traveled from the field service arrangement to the field and also back home. Like a plumber on a call-out :) Her father was an elder and she told me that she had inquired about it and supposedly it was fine. Was she wrong?
5. Has the new overlapping generation doctrine caused any other theological repercussions that were addressed in Watchtower articles? NO BUT NEW FDS DOCTRINE HAS
The new FDS doctrine: Only the Governing Body are the FDS? Does this include other sheep who also prepare literature?
What repercussions has the new FDS 'understanding' had on doctrine? Are there any Watchtower articles you can refer me to?
16. Have they alluded to distancing themselves from C.T. Russell? HE'S NO LONGER ONE OF THE F&DS
What?!! :) Any Watchtower references?
21. Any new special arrangements for obtaining money? Pledges etc.ALL KHALLS HAVE BEEN 'ACQUIRED' BY THE SOCIETY. MONTHLY PLEDGES VOTED ON BY ALL HALLS. LOANS WILL BE PAID EVEN AFTER THEY ARE PAID OFF.
I thought all kingdom halls have always been the property of the Watchtower corporation since the days of Rutherford.
Loans will paid even after they are paid off? Like a congregation tithe in other words :)
26. Are the hours still the same for auxiliary pioneer, pioneer and special pioneer? 30HRS FOR AUX 3X PER YEAR, 50 FOR AUXILIARY NORMALLY, 70 FOR REGULARS
So you can commit to auxiliary pioneering for 3 times a year and then do only 30 hours per instance? When did this come about?
Thank you for your response once again.
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27 Questions
by Saintbertholdt ini've been on and off the forum for a couple of years now.
mostly lurking.. the last time i set foot in a kingdom hall was back in 2005 before i disassociated myself formally.. over the years i've kept up with the doctrinal changes and changes in practices.
the problem is that because i haven't been practically experiencing these changes, much of the new information has not stuck clearly in my head.
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Saintbertholdt
Hello there all,
I've been on and off the forum for a couple of years now. Mostly lurking.
The last time I set foot in a kingdom hall was back in 2005 before I disassociated myself formally.
Over the years I've kept up with the doctrinal changes and changes in practices.
The problem is that because I haven't been practically experiencing these changes, much of the new information has not stuck clearly in my head. Where I am now is a 2005 ex-witness with some gaps and distortions in my current JW knowledge.
Therefore I come to you for help. I have formulated 27 main questions with some sub questions which sums up my half-baked understanding since 2005.
So have a look and perhaps there are one or more questions you can help me with.
If you could indicate which question/s you are answering that would be much appreciated.
kindest regards
Saintbertholdt
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1. Can circuit overseers, elders and governing body members count public talks as field service?
2. If so can they count their travel times also?
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3. How many meetings do the witnesses have now every week?
Public talk + watchtower study (2 hours)
Misery School + Service meeting (2 hours)
Is the book study included anywhere? Has it totally fallen away?
What is the family study meeting called? The 'family study'? Is there any prescribed literature?
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4. What is a Presiding Overseer called now? Why was a change made?
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5. Has the new overlapping generation doctrine caused any other theological repercussions that were addressed in Watchtower articles?
6. Has there been any articles addressing the increase in emblem participation?
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7. Why has the trinity brochure fallen away? Has it been replaced at all?
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8. Where is a good forum thread that discusses the changes in the New new World translation?
9. Have they just brought it in line with the New International Version or have any additional verses been omitted?
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10. Whats the story with the video broadcasts? Who does it feature, what are the topics, and why are they doing it?
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11. Will/Has the Watchtower CD Rom been discontinued?
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12. Has there been any new vocabulary added to the dogma? Brazen conduct comes to mind.
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13. What scriptures now feature regularly? Still Mathew 24:14, 2 Timothy 3:1-5?
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14. Now that the new song book has been around for a couple of years, are the new songs in it any good? Did they remove the song that featured the intro to Looney Tunes? Is Shulamite maiden still in there? Do any new songs allude to new dogma?
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15. King of the north, any news?
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16. Have they alluded to distancing themselves from C.T. Russell?
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17. Has there been a change in dub attitude over the past couple of years? Is Armageddon's eminence still imminent? Whats the general demeanor? Same old, same old or brimstone super super soon?
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18. How are things in Russia since 2010 when the bans started? Is it getting worse and what is the status of the cases in the international courts?
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19. Is the Gilead school still around? Was there any truth to the rumor that it would be discontinued?
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20. Have the number of international/district/special conventions remained the same/increased/decreased?
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21. Any new special arrangements for obtaining money? Pledges etc.
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22. Any new 'deep' ideas like spiritual paradise or sacred secret?
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23. Any new shots fired against apostates? (I know about mentally diseased)
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24. Any new Watchtower articles that have caused a stir in the past year/coming three months?
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25. Pedophile news? Any changes to policy? Anything after the Candace Conti case?
Did she lose on appeal? Is there a good forum thread on the topic?
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26. Are the hours still the same for auxiliary pioneer, pioneer and special pioneer?
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27. Have I covered everything? Anything else you can think of that's new or even new subtle shifts?
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