Saintbertholdt

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Posts by Saintbertholdt

• 
  375

  This thread is for proof that God exists

  by juandefiero in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  however, i haven't found any evidence to support that belief.. have you?

  if so please, show me the evidence that god exists, and i will believe along with you.. criteria:.

  (1) you must specify which god you are talking about;.

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  Saintbertholdt

  It has been around in various guises since at least Thomas Aquinas in the 13th Century. I read Saintbertholt's first comment above as just another version if it. Fisherman's last argument is yet another.

  I believe it even goes a bit further than that to early Islam. Muslims had some interesting ideas before their religious conservatism destroyed their critical skills.

  It fails the "endless turtles" argument.

  Can ANY infinity be demonstrated at all?

  "Infinite totalities do not exist in any sense of the word (i.e., either really or ideally). More precisely, any mention, or purported mention, of infinite totalities is, literally, meaningless." - Abraham Robinson

  Them turtles gotta run out sometime.
  
  

  There is of course the additional problem of trying to link this theoretical creator of the universe to the biblical God.

  Its a tough sell.
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  375

  This thread is for proof that God exists

  by juandefiero in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  however, i haven't found any evidence to support that belief.. have you?

  if so please, show me the evidence that god exists, and i will believe along with you.. criteria:.

  (1) you must specify which god you are talking about;.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Saintbertholdt

  Hi EndofMysteries,

  Copypasta is crap. It means you haven't taken the time to put the ideas into your own words or you don't really understand and/or have internalized the arguments presented. Quoting is fine, so is paraphrasing, but make the arguments your own. Copypasta just ends up in copypasta wars.

  Nobody learns anything anymore and we all just reply with tldr;
• 
  375

  This thread is for proof that God exists

  by juandefiero in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  however, i haven't found any evidence to support that belief.. have you?

  if so please, show me the evidence that god exists, and i will believe along with you.. criteria:.

  (1) you must specify which god you are talking about;.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  It has been demonstrated that in empty space particles are constantly being born and annihilating each other purely randomly and without cause.

  ALL experiments that have been carried ARE causal. In other words one has to create a vacuum to measure these events. The creation of the vacuum is causal.

  The universe began to exist. - Unverifiable. It certainly appears to have had a beginning in the big bang, but there are a number of ideas about the big bang

  Current evidence currently points to the big bang. The red shift and cosmic background radiation are the two strongest evidences for this. Corroborative to this is also the Hubble constant. No other theory has such strong support.

  Supposing that points 1 and 2 are correct, how does something necessarily having a "first cause" suggest an intelligence of any form?

  Because it is not physical it therefore must be ex Nihilo. And if that is the case, the strongest idea is God.

  Also the argument is logically consistent and uses material implication.

  So can I have my $500 now?
  
• 
  375

  This thread is for proof that God exists

  by juandefiero in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  however, i haven't found any evidence to support that belief.. have you?

  if so please, show me the evidence that god exists, and i will believe along with you.. criteria:.

  (1) you must specify which god you are talking about;.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  Hi there juandefiero,

  I'd like to take the category: An impersonal God that set the universe in motion, for $500 please Juan.

  The argument takes the form of a logical syllogism:

  A->B
  C->A
  C->B

  Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
  

  The universe began to exist.

  Therefore: The universe has a first cause.
• 
  18

  A frothy question ABOUT DEMONS

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  have you ever been to a circus and seen a "clown car"?.

  the little "bug" volkswagon drives out and clowns get out.

  lots and lots and lots and lots of clowns!.

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  Saintbertholdt

  Hi Terry,

  I like the clown car analogy. I never thought that demonic possession could be funny but there you go.

  
  

  I wonder if L Ron Hubbard's Scientology doctrine of Body Thetans has its origins in the Biblical account? Supposedly you can have thousands of infestations at once.

  It certainly is something that Horror films have used on many occasions. When the devout exorcist asks the person possessed what the name is of the demon possessing them, I have heard the response on more than one film or tv show: "We are legion." I think its sort of a cool horror idea.

  Practically though how do the demons work together? Do they cooperate like a hive mind or does one demon get the left ear, another the right foot and yet another the pancreas and so on?

  Deep matters to consider.
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  162

  Do you still believe in God?

  by FormerlySandL in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i never thought i would admit it, but i don't.

  i might superstitiously have some kind of doubt but digging a bit deeper in my heart i really don't believe in god.

  as a human i could never just sit and watch people be tortured, live years of abuse, suffer from illness and disabilities and all the other awful things people have to endure day after day without doing something about it.

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  Saintbertholdt

  Hi Acts5v29 you wrote: ""Man cannot survive without God's help"

  Aren't humans clocking over 7 billion and climbing?

  At this point that's the one thing we seem to be good at.

  Besides that, were he to intervene, then one religion / race / nation / side would claim they had received his blessing, and other sides would only fight to avoid looking small.

  Wait a minute. Didn't He do that already with the Israelites? So He has no problem with the idea.

  More importantly... if God were to intervene, then the adversary could claim legitimately that God broke the rules in order to win, and taint Him as ruling by cheating.

  But according to the Bible he had not problem intervening when it suited him. That's until modern recording equipment was invented and then he totally disappeared. Seems He's a bit camera shy.
• 
  162

  Do you still believe in God?

  by FormerlySandL in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i never thought i would admit it, but i don't.

  i might superstitiously have some kind of doubt but digging a bit deeper in my heart i really don't believe in god.

  as a human i could never just sit and watch people be tortured, live years of abuse, suffer from illness and disabilities and all the other awful things people have to endure day after day without doing something about it.

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  Saintbertholdt

  2+2=5 you wrote: I've currently no faith, so let's start with God. What's his name, where does he live, and how can I contact him?

  Joe Pesci. Hollywood California. Via his Facebook fan club page. He might not answer though, he's usually busy
• 
  162

  Do you still believe in God?

  by FormerlySandL in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i never thought i would admit it, but i don't.

  i might superstitiously have some kind of doubt but digging a bit deeper in my heart i really don't believe in god.

  as a human i could never just sit and watch people be tortured, live years of abuse, suffer from illness and disabilities and all the other awful things people have to endure day after day without doing something about it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  Hi FormerlySandL,

  Its a huge thing in ones life - letting go of a personal God. For myself I was pretty bewildered at first. I then experienced all the stages one would expect during the process: Anger, sadness, depression and later finally acceptance.

  Then the fun started: I got to try to figure out my purpose in life and what its meaning is. It was the first time I could really start to seriously poke at the big questions and I was allowed to come to my own conclusions. I have never looked back.

  In reflection there is still one Biblical saying that I give serious consideration to: The truth WILL set you free.

  Only this time I get to decide what truth it is and what it means to me.
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  27

  What's the purpose of being a JW now?

  by MrTheocratic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  with all the recent changes to this religion, what really is the purpose of being a jw?

  especially for those who have been in and witnessed all the changes and still no sight of the end.

  for these ones in particular (35-55 year olds) they must be in a state of confusion.

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  Saintbertholdt

  jookbeard you wrote: "...how many eccentric, neurotic,narcissistic types have we seen over the years in our jw life"

  Well I'm still eccentric - check. I'm still neurotic - check. And I'm still a narcissist - check. This is all very troubling. I'm going to have to do some self re-evaluation.

  What's the purpose of being a JW now?

  Counting hours? Perhaps getting some new gear like an iPad?

  I think the old answer is still the best answer: universal afterlife insurance.
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  35

  Do todays Jw's care at all about Russell and the pyramid?

  by olongapo joe in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  just wondering, as i will be visiting active jw family in ohio in a few weeks, do you think it will be worthwhile dropping it into a conversation, about the wtbts pyramid near his grave, or try some other topic to try and wake them up.

  i was never baptized and don't really care if they get upset or not, but it is only a day trip from ohio to pittsburgh, and thought it would be fun if they denied it, and then drove their to see it for ourselves.

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  Saintbertholdt

  When I was a JW I hadn't even heard about the Pyramid in connection with the 'Divine Plan of the Ages' or the Russell grave site pyramid. If I had known about it then I certainly would have raised an eyebrow especially considering it was still believed when Jesus did his supposed survey of the earth in 1918 to choose his faithful slave.
  
  olongapo joe you wrote: "...and then drove their to see it for ourselves."
  Take some pictures and post them on JWN or it didn't happen :)
  
  Hey punkofnice you wrote: "...Anything he did was just seen as an imperfect man 'doing his best(tm)'".
  My answer to JWs in this regard is: So does the Pope. And don't give me that he's infallible shtick because that only counts when he's making a Papal decree. Its like when the governing body meets they transform into (G)uardians (O)f (D)octrine. Power rangers assemble!