TMS

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Posts by TMS

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  15

  Waiting for an apology?

  by LDH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was recently talking to a friend, an ex-admin from witnet, who said that they felt i was 'owed' an apology because of an offensive remark made on this board.. i didn't give it too much credence, since from time to time we all say things we shouldn't, but it did start a dialogue between us about things we would apologise for if we could.. on a really 'general' note, i mentioned i would apologise to every householder to whom i might have came across as being god's finger on their doorstep.

  for people who are supposed to be humble, when you are told every day of your life that you have the 'truth,' it becomes obvious that everyone else has a 'lie.

  ' therefore, it's not too hard to picture yourself being sanctimonious at the door while preaching the gospel of our lord jesus.. i really can't comment on what he said because i would reveal his identity and don't have his permission to do so, but suffice it to say he wanted to apologise for pushing off his personal preferences on others (which he didn't even believe but which were being taught as the word of god).

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  TMS

  Somewhat back to Lisa's original post.

  Without apology, I've been a prolific apologizer my entire adult life.
  My wife, for one, is not impressed with my apologies and often cites the old line: "Apologies are like a rubber eraser."

  In the mid-60's I made a rude and awkward exit from a conversation with an educated man, much my senior, with whom I was engaged in animated debate. . . . Feeling shame over the inappropriate handling of the situation, I returned a dozen or more times at all hours of the day to extend my apology. Finally, making contact, I extended my sincere apology. He, in turn, apologized.

  Now deceased Joel Meeks, Circuit Overseer, made an obvious misapplication of scripture in a service talk to the congregation. A couple of elders approached him about correcting the point before leaving the congregation. He refused.

  Eugene R. Brandt, District Overseer, made it a practice to stop everything at a circuit assembly, if he realized he had made an error of some sort. He begged humbly the audience's forgiveness. (Several years later, I found him not nearly so humble in real life.)

  I had intended for this post to be a personal review of the things for which I should apologize, but my thoughts are convoluted and fragmented.

  For now,

  TMS
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  15

  Waiting for an apology?

  by LDH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was recently talking to a friend, an ex-admin from witnet, who said that they felt i was 'owed' an apology because of an offensive remark made on this board.. i didn't give it too much credence, since from time to time we all say things we shouldn't, but it did start a dialogue between us about things we would apologise for if we could.. on a really 'general' note, i mentioned i would apologise to every householder to whom i might have came across as being god's finger on their doorstep.

  for people who are supposed to be humble, when you are told every day of your life that you have the 'truth,' it becomes obvious that everyone else has a 'lie.

  ' therefore, it's not too hard to picture yourself being sanctimonious at the door while preaching the gospel of our lord jesus.. i really can't comment on what he said because i would reveal his identity and don't have his permission to do so, but suffice it to say he wanted to apologise for pushing off his personal preferences on others (which he didn't even believe but which were being taught as the word of god).

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  TMS

  Lisa:

  You know I have always enjoyed your posts.

  My impression was on December 18, when you first posted here, that you were still an active Witness. I wondered to myself how long you would continue to be.

  Do I detect in your references to JW activity a past tense?

  BTW, my hat is off to you for the commonsensical way you seem to be raising your offspring.

  TMS
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  38

  TOLERANCE

  by Frenchy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tolerance.

  i think the appearance of the now infamous danielle gives us reason for pause.

  i admit that at first i took her at face value which is what we are all supposed to do.

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  TMS

  Trolls are abundant in all the discussion groups on the internet. Successful trolls produce angry responses.

  I lean toward the view that some JW apologists are merely trolls. A case in point would be Fred Hall. Could ANYONE really slaughter the language like that in EVERY sentence unintentionally?

  I subscribe to the kinder, gentler approach recommended by Mr. Frenchy to respond to any viewpoint expressed. After all, who REALLY knows?

  I've found myself becoming increasingly more tolerant in the last 7 or 8 years than I ever was during my 55 years as a Witness. When two young Mormons called on me recently, I found myself feeling genuine compassion for them. We chatted non-confrontationally about baptism of the dead, Moroni and the tablets and the rigors of door-to-door work and parted amicably.

  TMS
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  99

  Who really is the FDS?!?!?!?!?

  by LDH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey all, hope you're having a great year so far.. before witnet was closed down, there was an interesting discussion regarding the fds and their failed prophecies.

  i asked a question, but unfortunately there wasn't enought time to get everyone's view.. so i'll rephrase my posts, and wait to hear from y'all.. if we are so quick to say that the fds is a false prophet because of some failed prophecies (even tho they say they don't prophecy, we all know better) then how would you explain the bible book of jonah?.

  a faithful prophet, jonah, followed (after much trial and tribulation to himself) jehovah's command to declare destruction on the city of nineveh.

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  TMS

  Lisa, I just knew you would stir things up! . . . . .now, after Jehovah acquiescing to Abraham. . . . Jehovah felt regret in his creation of man. . . The Society's spin on that is= he felt regret at the way men had acted and handled free-agency. . . I no longer accept "spin"! Jehovah felt regret. Just like Isaac "hated" Leah. . . Watchtower says "loved less," not hated. I say he hated Leah.

  TMS
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  99

  Who really is the FDS?!?!?!?!?

  by LDH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey all, hope you're having a great year so far.. before witnet was closed down, there was an interesting discussion regarding the fds and their failed prophecies.

  i asked a question, but unfortunately there wasn't enought time to get everyone's view.. so i'll rephrase my posts, and wait to hear from y'all.. if we are so quick to say that the fds is a false prophet because of some failed prophecies (even tho they say they don't prophecy, we all know better) then how would you explain the bible book of jonah?.

  a faithful prophet, jonah, followed (after much trial and tribulation to himself) jehovah's command to declare destruction on the city of nineveh.

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  TMS

  Perhaps not a change of mind, Lisa, but certainly backpedalling in the exchange between Jehovah and Abraham concerning Sodom.. . . . . . . Similarities here in trying to decide if communities were worthy of preservation. . . . . Of course, in modern times the FDS is allegedly "all of the anointed on the earth at any point in time." My question would relate to how much actual participation there is by these "anointed ones" in any matters, prophetic, doctrinal or organizational. My anointed grandfather on my mother's side and great-aunt on my father's side knew nothing in advance of anyone else organizationally. So their actual function as part of the FDS was largely fictictious or symbolic.

  TMS
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  20

  Hello Hello (Continued) Intros ....

  by Roamingfeline in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  hey, nice to see you again, kismet!!!

  where ya been?

  i do agree that the other thread was getting a bit long, and totally lost it's original purpose!

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  TMS

  An intriguing bit of Java's words:

  "However, most of the folks I know who left Bethel also left the religion within a few years. If the Society was really "God's Organization," one might think exiting Bethel members would become life-long pillars in the Witness community."

  ______________________________________________________________________

  Some of the operative words may be disillusioning, de-mystifying . . . . Making a pilgramage to Bethel never interested me. We always opted to go to a scenic locale instead. Subconsciously, I've probably wanted to retain my pristine, fanciful image of headquarters.

  TMS

  p.s. Two close personal friends returned from stints @ Bethel in the late 50's. Both men remained JW's, but were less in awe of the "Society" than most.
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  17

  Just stopping by to say hi....

  by LDH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello everyone, especially from witnet.

  as long as i have been on the net, i hadn't used it for anything remotely related to jw until earlier this year.. i was looking into bb software for our company's site, and on the infopop site i saw a link for witnet!

  since witnet closed, i have seen so much online, it's been a little overwhelming, lol.. i really enjoyed my time there, and i'll stop in here from time to time, if you can handle it.

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  TMS

  If Lisa does indeed decide to do more than just occasionally stop by, it would add immeasurably to this discussion board.

  TMS
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  18

  Judicial Defense ?

  by thinker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it occurs to me that this forum has a vast resource of knowledge and experience.

  i'd like to suggest we put our heads together and find possible defenses for active witnesses facing a judicial committee.

  with frenchy's intimate knowledge of committee rules and rr's huge library, along with everyone's individual experience; we we should be able to build a logical defense (assuming logic is a useful tool to jw's).. from my own research, i have put together a logical defense for an active jw who wishes to associate with a da'd friend.

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  TMS

  Mr. Thinker:

  Having served on Judicial Committees since 1965 and used in Appeal Committees since 1974, I have some feel for how your arguments would be received.

  A person summoned to a judicial hearing has already been visited by an exploratory committee (usually two brothers) to determine if there is evidence that a disfellowshipping offence has occurred.

  In the judicial hearing the committee will try to guage the wrongdoer's ATTITUDE toward the offence to determine if their is genuine repentance and thus a basis for mercy.

  Anyone coming into a judicial hearing with an attempt to prove that the alleged offence is not really wrong is not showing genuine contrition.

  The outcome is utterly predictable.

  TMS
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  18

  Judicial Defense ?

  by thinker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it occurs to me that this forum has a vast resource of knowledge and experience.

  i'd like to suggest we put our heads together and find possible defenses for active witnesses facing a judicial committee.

  with frenchy's intimate knowledge of committee rules and rr's huge library, along with everyone's individual experience; we we should be able to build a logical defense (assuming logic is a useful tool to jw's).. from my own research, i have put together a logical defense for an active jw who wishes to associate with a da'd friend.

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  TMS

  Without consideration to the merits of your reasoning, a frontal approach such as this would not be successful. It is not a matter of presenting your case and the Judicial Committee presenting theirs and an impartial jury ruling on the matter.

  You would be asking a Judical Committee to overturn the policies, teaching, guidelines of the WTBS and, in effect, create new teaching.

  A more subtle, yet much more effective approach would be to look for a loophole. Such exceptions are known to most veteran Witnesses.
  Most of these involve necessary family dealings or contractual business arrangements. Relatives, either elderly or youthful, having severe financial, psychological or physical needs may be cared for and thus kept in contact, as long as there is no "spiritual" association.

  Existing contractual arrangements for which there is no "out", must be honored.

  Most elders are aware of these principles, and if it is tactfully explained that you are walking a tight line between respect for the judicial decision and shouldering other scriptural obligations, your low-profile contact may not be scrutinized.

  TMS
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  35

  Witnet closes its Door for good...

  by Pathofthorns in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  kind of a sad but inevitable end to a special and unique place on the net.

  free speech is severely limited in the truth, and the wide range of opinion and viewpoint between the old school and the new school i'm sure made operating such a site a challenge.. for me the most facinating thing was the way one could see thinking troubled witnesses contrasted with the ones who were the mindless products of an organization.

  i think it was a valuable window into the worldwide picture of what is happening today in the religion.. the site was helpful to me, and for that it holds a special place with me.

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  TMS

  The abruptness of the closing of witnesses.net was a semi-surprise, although it was obvious that a buyout by the members was next to impossible to orchestrate.

  Many of the posts in the "Sensitive Forum" were well-articulated, documented and expanded my thinking in a number of areas.

  TMS