Posts by TMS

59

THE EX-[ELDERS] FILES: EYES WIDE SHUT

by AMNESIAN in

jw
friends

(dont let the title scare or piss you off.

stay with it to the end---even if it takes you a while---and then, if you wish, by all means get pissed as you wanna be.

(final edit, thursday, january 10, 2002, 11:00 a.m. pst, usa).

TMS

SixofNine: "Now somebody slap me and call me bitch for being so niave, but are there really enough elders out there who "know" for us to be having this conversation?"

Six,
I think I expressed that thought to TeeJay last night in the Farewell from Amazing thread, although I'm too lazy to refresh my recollection.

It might be more accurate to say that we should have known.

Amnesian, would it be too forward to ask how your husband feels about his 25 year role? Does he feel guilty or does he rationalize his participation?

TMS

59

THE EX-[ELDERS] FILES: EYES WIDE SHUT

by AMNESIAN in

jw
friends

(dont let the title scare or piss you off.

stay with it to the end---even if it takes you a while---and then, if you wish, by all means get pissed as you wanna be.

(final edit, thursday, january 10, 2002, 11:00 a.m. pst, usa).

TMS

Sister A:

You've just served up one of those 64oz. steaks they offer FREE in Abilene to anyone who can finish it.

Well, I finished it, so I guess I'll just leave a small tip and walk out. May take a while to digest, though.

U admit the WTBS has a fine "P" program! I lamely tried to insinuate this in a post a few months back: "The Retractable Dangling Carrot".

All facetiousness aside, all during my Theocratic career, I subconsciously distanced myself from Bethel. Never toured. Never read the minutes of a business meeting. In retrospect, I think I feared having my illusion shattered.

Culpably yours,

TMS

12

Finally Got My Masters

by TMS in

jw
friends

after all the silly anecdotal tales, less-than-clever retorts, finally got my masters in jwd.. when witnet sunk into the sea, i went into a mild funk.

i missed the "sensitive issues" forum.. looking for alternatives, i found jw-pagans.

too big a jump for me!.

TMS

Maybe it takes 201 posts to get my degree.

TMS

12

Finally Got My Masters

by TMS in

jw
friends

after all the silly anecdotal tales, less-than-clever retorts, finally got my masters in jwd.. when witnet sunk into the sea, i went into a mild funk.

i missed the "sensitive issues" forum.. looking for alternatives, i found jw-pagans.

too big a jump for me!.

TMS

After all the silly anecdotal tales, less-than-clever retorts, finally got my Masters in JWD.

When Witnet sunk into the sea, I went into a mild funk. I missed the "Sensitive Issues" forum.

Looking for alternatives, I found JW-Pagans. Too big a jump for me!

Then WOL. Seemed like recess in grade school.

Finally, JWD. Everyone was talking about saddle blocks. Oh well, I'll sign up, anyway.

TMS, M.A.J.W.D.

99

Farewell to all

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i already said farewell in my apology post to julie.

but many of you may not have read it since it was specific to her.. i was planning a long farewell statement because i have a number of things i want to share, but decided i would do that in private if anyone wishes.

you can reach me at [email protected].. i chose to leave for a number of reasons, and some stated on my last post.

TMS

TJ:"not one of them EVER had a twinge of "hey... something's not right here"?

a twinge, maybe. . . . my wife and I caught one of the elders in front of his home and gently, almost surreally asked a few questions. Although the emotion was seething below the surface, we showed great restraint and spoke in low tones. He was totally tongue-tied. He later told a colleague that we were "too powerful" in tandem and should never be dealt with without backup.

My wife approached another committee member, a man with 40+ years JW experience, former Congregation Servant, etc. She had one question for him: "Do you think our son is wicked?" He refused to answer. He sold his home about a month later and moved to Arizona.

So, TJ, my gut feeling is that, yes, they possibly did feel a twinge of guilt, but, like their mother found it hard to express.

I know, TJ, that I have taken this thread off on a personal tangent, but in an honest answer to your question, if this sequence of events had never occurred, its likely that my wife and I would be driving home from the Congregation Book Study right now.

TMS

99

Farewell to all

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i already said farewell in my apology post to julie.

but many of you may not have read it since it was specific to her.. i was planning a long farewell statement because i have a number of things i want to share, but decided i would do that in private if anyone wishes.

you can reach me at [email protected].. i chose to leave for a number of reasons, and some stated on my last post.

TMS

TJ, you asked:

"What finally caused the dissonance that made you want to question, investigate, and finally leave?"

'93, my son's second reinstatement hearing. My wife was praying in the bedroom. I was pacing the living room floor, beseeching Jehovah, my God. I knew it would be inappropriate to pray for reinstatement, but in view of "And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that, no matter what it is that we ask according to his will, he hears us", I felt that I could ask that the elders deal kindly with our son and, at the very least, show him their genuine concern in him as a person.

My son called. The elders had met with him for about 3 minutes, after he had waited about 45 minutes in his car after the meeting. They simply told him, without any interchange, that not enough time had gone by. He had been out a little over a year, at that point.

In that instant, TJ, something went out of me.

For the next year or two, I dreaded my wife's persistant question for which I had no answer: "Where is Jehovah in all of this?"

TMS

49

Brief Explanation

by joelbear in

jw
friends

my path needs to be revamped.. i do plan to have a serious discussion with elders and attend the kingdom hall.

where that will lead, time will tell.. i am not leaving mitch.

even if i did become a jehovah's witness and celibate again he would love me just the same and i him.. you cannot become ungay.

TMS

Thank you, Joel.

I won't be worried about you.

I, too, have a long heritage as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Its with me every second of the day.

When I smile at a passerby, I know that was my "Kingdom smile".

My patience in line at the WalMart return desk is part of my theocratic training.

In private conversations, I am able to show "personal interest" and if necessary, "illustrations that fit my audience".

It would take radical brain surgery to undue all these neuroconnectors that reflect my heritage.

Its too late for that.

TMS

99

Farewell to all

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i already said farewell in my apology post to julie.

but many of you may not have read it since it was specific to her.. i was planning a long farewell statement because i have a number of things i want to share, but decided i would do that in private if anyone wishes.

you can reach me at [email protected].. i chose to leave for a number of reasons, and some stated on my last post.

TMS

This is probably an inappropriate place to interject my simplistic response, but . . . . .

I have known hundreds of congregation elders.

I can count on one hand those who expressed the slightest disillusionment with the WTBS or awareness that something didn't add up.

Elders have been spoonfed just like the r&f.

If we accept the truism that "knowledge brings responsibility", JW elders are no more responsible than the r&f.

One could argue though as James did that "teachers carry a heavier burden." But when one just recites verbatum what they have read in "Kingdom Service Questions", the "Lamp" or "Organization" book or picked up at the recent Kingdom Ministry School, are they really a teacher or merely a parrot?

TMS

78

You Know a Spiritual Coward

by AlanF in

jw
friends

here is another unequivocal example of a claim of direct inspiration: in the olin moyle court case of 1943, fred franz said under oath that no man is the editor of the watchtower.

who, then, is the editor?

who became the editor?

TMS

Actually, I don't fully understand the charge of spiritual cowardice. Theological cowardice, perhaps.

Anyway, "You Know" dispelled that notion with his responses, such as they were. The substance of the discussion was obscured by the personal nature of the challenge.

Even the thread title was double entendre. Was it "You Know, a Spiritual Coward"? or as it stands "You Know a Spiritual Coward". The correctness of that last inclusion would depend, first of all, on if one knew "You Know", secondly if he was proved a coward or would imply that each of us knew a spiritual coward, not necessarily, "You Know".

TMS

10

Familes - the WTS Biggest Problem

by metatron in

jw
friends

there are a lot of interesting obstacles facing the watchtower.. potential lawsuits, legal challenges to the door to door work,.

declining revenues, general loss of zeal, exposure on the internet,.

and loss of publishers in western nations come to mind.. yet, there is no obstacle greater, in my opinion, than the.

TMS

proplog2: "Disfellowshipping has become a right of passage."

Yes, proplog2, a rite of passage it was. We grew closer, stronger. As the anger dissipated, all of us found creativity that had been latent.

Although my wife and I are fully aware that several decades went down the tubes, our son thinks it all worked out for the best.

Had we acquiesced to the "theocratic" mindset, our family would have been destroyed. We would have been dead people walking.

TMS