with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"I was lucky the fluctuating lightbulb known as "new light" shone in my favor in the mid-70s.
Receiving medicines derived from blood were considered a matter of conscience then, and I was able to receive a medication that helped ensure the healthy birth of my son.
By the time the bulb dimmed again in the 80s, I was long gone."
Good for you, return of the parakeet.
tms
with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"Something you left out was the change in understanding of the term "minister." Suddenly, only the appointed brothers were "ministers," and the rest of us were just slobs."
Yes, cobaltcupcake. That shift in the definition of "minister" changed all we had been taught. It briefly put us in line with the clergy of Christendom. The more humane way of dealing with disfellowshipped persons, if I remember correctly, was documented by the way Isrealites treated people of other nations, the Gentiles, which was humane, not cruel and the way the early Christians viewed people of the world.
Interestingly, most of these changes that involved liberalization were well-reasoned and taught. That is why it was difficult to swallow the swinging back of the hardline pendulum which was just policy change without similar so-called scriptural grounding. Sometimes, like the return of the circuit overseer to almighty status was never actually noted. It just happened.
tms
with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"Interesting. This is an era I didn't experience firsthand, and never knew existed. How sad that in the battle between "light" and "dark", the dark won. Who knows, maybe someday there will be a reversal -- or maybe that brief shift in thinking was an ill-fated fluke from the beginning. Maybe I should read the James book, now I'm curious...."
Apognophos,
It appears to have been a fluke, likely the result of the influence of Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap, etc. The current mindset with assigned hotel rooms, dumbed down talks and literature, crackdowns on dress, grooming, socialization and independent study would have met resistance back then. I can remember a few of us going to the door with the Bible only, no literature, on occasion, just to show it to be our real source of guidance.
tms
with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"I could tell you stories of problems at Bethel that later "appeared" in the KMs to counteract them."
Yes, Dogpatch. A circuit overseer tipped me off in the mid-60's that frequently Watchtower and KM articles frequently related to some situation that developed at Bethel or "in the field." He taught me to "read between the lines."
I didn't realize it until years later, but my belief and continued practice of some of the principles learned in the 70's caused me to be viewed as a sort of maverick elder with a questionable attitude. I was entrenched, so not easily removed, but I noticed myself bypassed more and more for privileges that were given to younger, more militant elders. One of my last assignments was to conduct Pioneer Service School. I was paired with a longtime circuit overseer. No two men were ever less alike. I remember disagreeing with almost every bit of advice he gave to the pioneers.
tms
with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"I remember when women were finally accepted as elders and ministerial servants.
When they got up on stage in their pantsuits and gave the main talk on Sunday."
No, villagegirl. The liberalization never went that far although among JWs there are far more capable women then men.
tms
with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"MANDATORY Rotation forced people to work in unfamiliar domains. The fumbling loving bumbler suddenly had to lead, and everybody loved it and helped."
Very good points, proglogos. The rotation seemed to demystify offices like Presiding Overseer. An unlikely, unnatural leader could hold the reins for a year and the congregation didn't die.
Some brothers nimbly sidestepped the Secretary position as they knew it involved actual clerical work. Later on, Service Overseer was thrust on newbie elders since one almost HAD to take a lead in field service in that role. One thing quickly learned was to never miss an elder's meeting or you might end up with an assignment or book study you didn't want.
tms
with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"I recall when the elder arrangement came in. It was quite traumatic at our hall for the elderly cong. overseer who had been "top dog". He was a kind, loving man who was actually pushed to the side once others were appointed as elders."
mamochan13,
The new elder arrangement rendered some tyrants almost powerless, but it did make good, elderly overseers feel almost useless with so much eager new blood seizing the opportunity to lead. The wife of the former Congregation Servant also had her position as queen of the congregation now challenged by the upstart new elder's wives. Some congregations adjusted better than others but it wasn't unusual for the old Congregation Servant and his wife to change congregations seeking that acceptance and respect to which they had become accustomed.
tms
i was describing jehovah's witnesses to a family member who had no idea whatsoever about them.
i may be straightforward and describe things in terms i have learned since reading about cults, but i was not over the top in any way.
i was simply stating the facts in a way that did not try to put any positive spin on anything.. my family member said, "so they are basically the amish but with televisions and electricity.
OTWO,
I've been using the Amish comparison for a while. Many are familiar with the fascinating ex-Amish programs on TV so understand the similarities. The high control, the shunning, the need to placate the elders. . . all are similar. In contrast, I never felt that Mormans and JWs were that similar EXCEPT for the proselytizing. The Mormans encourage higher education, business success and even network to help each other in those areas.
tms
that seems almost redundant to me.
isn't all family business important and necessary?
having a meal with your grown, disfellowshipped child seems to me necessary part of having raised a decent, family-values sort of child.
" TMS... that's what I'd do if anyone told me I couldn't talk to my children anymore if they were Dfed. My son also told me the same if I was Dfed.
If anyone ever dared come between me and children...... "
Of course, I'm not saying we didn't pay a price organizationally even though we weren't disfellowshipped. We moved to a nearby congregation with our "reputation" for not following "theocratic order" following us. Just to understand. . . I had been an elder over 20 years, a congregation servant before that, gave talks at district and circuit assembies, conducted Pioneer Service School, etc., but wasn't allowed to read in the book study in my new congregation. This put the burden on an unbaptized husband of an elderly sister, who struggled so mightily through the study, the conductor would have to dispense with the reading of the paragraphs to finish on time.
When we showed up for midweek field service(we had been regular pioneers) the sisters naturally deferred to me. This made the Service Overseer scramble to get some young MS to take the group during the week. Just to play with them, I would alternate my days of participating to give them even more ground to cover. I eventually stopped altogether, but I'm certain they never felt comfortable leaving the assignment uncovered. A bizarre situation happened one Sunday when the speaker didn't show up. Some of the elders were out of town and the one in charge panicked and asked me if I would give the public talk on short notice. I complied, thinking how ironic that I wasn't qualified to read in the book study but was giving the public talk . . . . lol!
My wife was the first to stop attending and the elders made an issue of not issuing her a Kingdom Ministry. When I asked the presiding overseer somewhat incredulously if it was really a body decision, he slipped me a KM sort of on the sly. Later when the body decision was more rigidly enforced, I would let my wife have the original and make a crudely obvious black and white copy that I stapled together for my use. I sort of used it with pride, just waiting for some elder to have the nerve to bring up the old Lamp book quote about not copying publications.
While all of that was a very painful period for all of us as we were still essentially true believers, all of the anguish quickly dissipated when I read one chapter of Crisis of Conscience online in 1996. That very day I unloaded W&A volumes from 1956-94 into the dumpster along with all our other publications.
tms
that seems almost redundant to me.
isn't all family business important and necessary?
having a meal with your grown, disfellowshipped child seems to me necessary part of having raised a decent, family-values sort of child.
It's a bullshit rule, but JW's, as always, simply get creative in circumventing the rule. I'll give 4 quick example from my personal experience:
1. An elder, who was also a medical doctor and so had the means, rents a separate apartment for his 20 year old DF'd son. The elder keeps his position, but still "confers' regularly with his son about rent, utilities and other necessary business.
2. A mother with a 21 year old DF'd daughter gets together routinely to go over their shared VISA credit card.
3. A father and mother rent the old family home to their 22 year old DF'd son, stopping periodically to check on maintenance issues and collect the rent.
4. During this same time period(the early 90's), our 21yr old son was DF'd. My wife, on her own volition, took a very different approach. She went to each of the very hardnosed elders on our son's judicial committee and told them in no uncertain terms that she was not going to play any silly games pretending to have "necessary business" to communicate with our son, but she was for certain going to maintain contact. She told each JC member to "disfellowship me right now, but I'm not going to stop talking to my son." None of them ever made a move to do that. When she told me that night what she had just done, I couldn't disagree. I was proud of her.
tms
