for example, they pride themselves in what they don't believe such as immortal souls, the trinity, hellfire, etc.. some exjws still believe it is the "truth" and support the basics.. .
Good question!
I believe the 1922 Cedar Point, Ohio convention was the trumpet blast mention in Revelation, chapter 8. How could it not be?
I don't believe Jacob really hated Leah like the Bible says, but simply "loved her less" as the Watchtower explained.
Jehovah could have easily predicted Adam and Eve's sin in the garden but chose not to use his omniscience.
tms
my wife was told a brother was going to be disfellowshiped, "how do you know this is going to happen?
" sister so-so said "he was not repentant or humble to the brother's kindness.
" instead of engaging into a heated debate, she knew who the leak was, so-so's husband.
There are several facets to this subject with the more frequent being a hard-driving, ambitious JW sister pushing, promoting and willing her hubbie into eldership. She may write out his talks, drag him into field service at critical times to be seen by the decision makers. Meanwhile, she, not only pioneers, but she cooks, cleans and volunteers at every opportunity. The elders may sort of smile, knowing full well that Mary is pushing Steve in their faces, but eventually they succumb with the shrug: "Well, he is always there for every assignment."
The longtime elder's wife, the elderette queen, guards and protects the congregation's spiirituality, especially against the wiles of young, beautiful sisters. I've seen several naturally beautiful sisters ostracized only by the threat of their looks. One young, gorgeous sister's name always came up in elder's meetings as needing counsel for dressing inappropriately. I just couldn't see it and nixed the thought process as long as I could. She actually dressed very modestly, but was constantly faced with jealously from the elder's wives who complained to their husbands. Eventually, she was counseled and being the humble person she was, tried to dress down even further, but it was never enough.
Personally, I experienced the other side of things, being accused by a sister who had turned on my wife and I, of breaking confidentially. The sister actually broke down into tears, describing to the circuit overseer how learning all the congregation's secrets from my wife had torn her down spiritually. The circuit overseer patted me on the back, telling me to be more careful in the future. I was dumbfounded because this was not a particular weakness of mine. Not only did I not discuss congregation matters with my wife, she was actually not interested.(Before becoming a JW, she had typed out General Discharge papers in the army, usually involving sexual matters. The army found that she could be trusted with a security clearance.) In any event, I asked for an opportunity to sit down with this sister and another elder. The sister came into the meeting, clutching a handkerchief, her face red from emotion. She rambled for an hour and a half, but could not specifically state the confidential matters that had been revealed. It was a very weird meeting.
tms
with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"I was lucky the fluctuating lightbulb known as "new light" shone in my favor in the mid-70s.
Receiving medicines derived from blood were considered a matter of conscience then, and I was able to receive a medication that helped ensure the healthy birth of my son.
By the time the bulb dimmed again in the 80s, I was long gone."
Good for you, return of the parakeet.
tms
with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"Something you left out was the change in understanding of the term "minister." Suddenly, only the appointed brothers were "ministers," and the rest of us were just slobs."
Yes, cobaltcupcake. That shift in the definition of "minister" changed all we had been taught. It briefly put us in line with the clergy of Christendom. The more humane way of dealing with disfellowshipped persons, if I remember correctly, was documented by the way Isrealites treated people of other nations, the Gentiles, which was humane, not cruel and the way the early Christians viewed people of the world.
Interestingly, most of these changes that involved liberalization were well-reasoned and taught. That is why it was difficult to swallow the swinging back of the hardline pendulum which was just policy change without similar so-called scriptural grounding. Sometimes, like the return of the circuit overseer to almighty status was never actually noted. It just happened.
tms
with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"Interesting. This is an era I didn't experience firsthand, and never knew existed. How sad that in the battle between "light" and "dark", the dark won. Who knows, maybe someday there will be a reversal -- or maybe that brief shift in thinking was an ill-fated fluke from the beginning. Maybe I should read the James book, now I'm curious...."
Apognophos,
It appears to have been a fluke, likely the result of the influence of Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap, etc. The current mindset with assigned hotel rooms, dumbed down talks and literature, crackdowns on dress, grooming, socialization and independent study would have met resistance back then. I can remember a few of us going to the door with the Bible only, no literature, on occasion, just to show it to be our real source of guidance.
tms
with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"I could tell you stories of problems at Bethel that later "appeared" in the KMs to counteract them."
Yes, Dogpatch. A circuit overseer tipped me off in the mid-60's that frequently Watchtower and KM articles frequently related to some situation that developed at Bethel or "in the field." He taught me to "read between the lines."
I didn't realize it until years later, but my belief and continued practice of some of the principles learned in the 70's caused me to be viewed as a sort of maverick elder with a questionable attitude. I was entrenched, so not easily removed, but I noticed myself bypassed more and more for privileges that were given to younger, more militant elders. One of my last assignments was to conduct Pioneer Service School. I was paired with a longtime circuit overseer. No two men were ever less alike. I remember disagreeing with almost every bit of advice he gave to the pioneers.
tms
with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"I remember when women were finally accepted as elders and ministerial servants.
When they got up on stage in their pantsuits and gave the main talk on Sunday."
No, villagegirl. The liberalization never went that far although among JWs there are far more capable women then men.
tms
with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"MANDATORY Rotation forced people to work in unfamiliar domains. The fumbling loving bumbler suddenly had to lead, and everybody loved it and helped."
Very good points, proglogos. The rotation seemed to demystify offices like Presiding Overseer. An unlikely, unnatural leader could hold the reins for a year and the congregation didn't die.
Some brothers nimbly sidestepped the Secretary position as they knew it involved actual clerical work. Later on, Service Overseer was thrust on newbie elders since one almost HAD to take a lead in field service in that role. One thing quickly learned was to never miss an elder's meeting or you might end up with an assignment or book study you didn't want.
tms
with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
"I recall when the elder arrangement came in. It was quite traumatic at our hall for the elderly cong. overseer who had been "top dog". He was a kind, loving man who was actually pushed to the side once others were appointed as elders."
mamochan13,
The new elder arrangement rendered some tyrants almost powerless, but it did make good, elderly overseers feel almost useless with so much eager new blood seizing the opportunity to lead. The wife of the former Congregation Servant also had her position as queen of the congregation now challenged by the upstart new elder's wives. Some congregations adjusted better than others but it wasn't unusual for the old Congregation Servant and his wife to change congregations seeking that acceptance and respect to which they had become accustomed.
tms
i was describing jehovah's witnesses to a family member who had no idea whatsoever about them.
i may be straightforward and describe things in terms i have learned since reading about cults, but i was not over the top in any way.
i was simply stating the facts in a way that did not try to put any positive spin on anything.. my family member said, "so they are basically the amish but with televisions and electricity.
OTWO,
I've been using the Amish comparison for a while. Many are familiar with the fascinating ex-Amish programs on TV so understand the similarities. The high control, the shunning, the need to placate the elders. . . all are similar. In contrast, I never felt that Mormans and JWs were that similar EXCEPT for the proselytizing. The Mormans encourage higher education, business success and even network to help each other in those areas.
tms
