Between by wife and I we have 7 brothers and sisters who are active JWs. Collectively, they have 17 children ranging in age from 25 to 52, all raised as JWs. Of the 17, only 2 are still witness.
tms
Posts by TMS
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63Are the Witnesses Really Losing Their Young People?
by What Now? inthat article about jehovah's witnesses having the lowest retention rate for born ins keeps popping up every now again ... i'm just curious if any of you have noticed that this is actually the case.
in the congregation that i grew up in, i'm going to say that 95% of the young people in their teens to mid twenties are either regular pioneering, regular auxiliary pioneering, serving in foreign language congregations or where the need is greater.
both of my younger sisters are regular pioneers - and the young people in their hall even organize 8 pm to midnight service on friday nights of their own accord.
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11
Unfaithful In What Is Least; Psychoanalysis Invited
by TMS inmy wife and i were longtime jws.
i was an elder for over 25 years and we had two stints of pioneering totally 14 years.
while we considered ourselves loyal witnesses, looking back on it we had some independence working: .
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TMS
finally awake,
Yes, these were little rules but so stifling.
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11
Unfaithful In What Is Least; Psychoanalysis Invited
by TMS inmy wife and i were longtime jws.
i was an elder for over 25 years and we had two stints of pioneering totally 14 years.
while we considered ourselves loyal witnesses, looking back on it we had some independence working: .
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TMS
My wife and I were longtime JWs. I was an elder for over 25 years and we had two stints of pioneering totally 14 years. While we considered ourselves loyal witnesses, looking back on it we had some independence working:
Lapel Cards: Sometime in the 80's we stopped wearing lapel cards, not only AFTER the assembly program, but during it. If I had a talk, I would wear the card on stage only if it was mandated.
Assigned Convention, Rooming: Not being able to get the correct week off work once, we were not able to attend our assigned district assembly. We enjoyed the one week of freedom from the congregation while they were at the designated convention AND the appeal of attending in a different locale an alternate week. That became our regular routine for our last years as JWs. If I had an assembly part, we would attend our assigned convention for that day only using a personal day from work, then get the rest of the program somewhere else. Since it was not our assigned assembly, we found our own rooms through a motel chain's discount program. We had clean, inexpensive rooms and were usually the only JWs at the motel.
Yearbooks, Calendars: While we always ordered the yearbook(1), we stopped ordering Watchtower calendars. We found them impractical because they did not show worldly holidays. While we didn't celebrate the holidays, that was important information with a child in school and at my job. "Worldly" calendars also had more room for notes, appointments, etc.
Convention Food: From the mid-70's my wife ALWAYS made a lunch for us even if were out of town. The instant the session ended, we said a prayer and ate our lunch. We then spent the rest of the lunch break roaming, visiting. This was a practice that some in our congregation noticed and copied. We never ate convention food during the hoagie, pastry, Shasta era.
Quickbuilds, remodels: I was never a fan of replacing suitable Kingdom Halls with a quickbuild or remodeling a perfectly fine building. Sometimes, I was the only dissenting vote on a circuit overseer mandated remodel. My favorite line was that I would support using the money for a third world hall, but not remodeling for the sake of remodeling a functional Kingdom Hall.
Kingdom Melodies recordings: Not a fan.
Were we bad or what?
tms
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16
Taking Elders Out of their Comfort Zone; The Little Room
by TMS inin the mid-90's my wife faced a bogus charge of gossiping.
the charge was based on a fleshly sister of a jw easedropping on a conversation.
we fought the charge with the elders unable to produce any credible report of the actual conversation.
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TMS
In the mid-90's my wife faced a bogus charge of gossiping. The charge was based on a fleshly sister of a JW easedropping on a conversation. We fought the charge with the elders unable to produce any credible report of the actual conversation. We won the battle but ruffled a few feathers in the process.
A short time later, while at a congregation meeting, my wife submitted an application for auxilary pioneering, partly to confirm her standing in the congregation. The Service Overseer hesitated, again bringing up the gossiping charge. He left to confer with the other elders on the service committee, then came back to ask my wife to join them in the little room. She told him that she was very uncomfortable joining three elders in the little room with other publishers taking notice as if it were a judicial committee. She asked if instead, they could meet with her at her home. The three brothers were not entirely pleased, but agreed.
About ten minutes before the scheduled meeting, the Service Overseer pulled in front of our house. We expected him to come in, make small talk at least, but instead, he bowed his head in fervent prayer. We could see him clearly praying as we looked out from our large front picture window. He looked like Daniel under Darius the Mede making his prayer public.
When he finally came to the door, I couldn't resist: "Gary, it looked like you were praying." His face reddened as he replied: "Well, I don't expect this to be easy." His face looked like he had just entered the lion's den.
While my wife did get the "privilege" these exchanges were a tiny start of chipping away at the foundation of our confidence in Jehovah's hand in matters.
tms
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69
Do You Believe In ANYTHING That The Witnesses Taught At This Point In Your Life?
by minimus infor example, they pride themselves in what they don't believe such as immortal souls, the trinity, hellfire, etc.. some exjws still believe it is the "truth" and support the basics.. .
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TMS
Good question!
I believe the 1922 Cedar Point, Ohio convention was the trumpet blast mention in Revelation, chapter 8. How could it not be?
I don't believe Jacob really hated Leah like the Bible says, but simply "loved her less" as the Watchtower explained.
Jehovah could have easily predicted Adam and Eve's sin in the garden but chose not to use his omniscience.
tms
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44
Evil Elderettes, the true Hounds of Hell!
by Bubblegum Apotheosis inmy wife was told a brother was going to be disfellowshiped, "how do you know this is going to happen?
" sister so-so said "he was not repentant or humble to the brother's kindness.
" instead of engaging into a heated debate, she knew who the leak was, so-so's husband.
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TMS
There are several facets to this subject with the more frequent being a hard-driving, ambitious JW sister pushing, promoting and willing her hubbie into eldership. She may write out his talks, drag him into field service at critical times to be seen by the decision makers. Meanwhile, she, not only pioneers, but she cooks, cleans and volunteers at every opportunity. The elders may sort of smile, knowing full well that Mary is pushing Steve in their faces, but eventually they succumb with the shrug: "Well, he is always there for every assignment."
The longtime elder's wife, the elderette queen, guards and protects the congregation's spiirituality, especially against the wiles of young, beautiful sisters. I've seen several naturally beautiful sisters ostracized only by the threat of their looks. One young, gorgeous sister's name always came up in elder's meetings as needing counsel for dressing inappropriately. I just couldn't see it and nixed the thought process as long as I could. She actually dressed very modestly, but was constantly faced with jealously from the elder's wives who complained to their husbands. Eventually, she was counseled and being the humble person she was, tried to dress down even further, but it was never enough.
Personally, I experienced the other side of things, being accused by a sister who had turned on my wife and I, of breaking confidentially. The sister actually broke down into tears, describing to the circuit overseer how learning all the congregation's secrets from my wife had torn her down spiritually. The circuit overseer patted me on the back, telling me to be more careful in the future. I was dumbfounded because this was not a particular weakness of mine. Not only did I not discuss congregation matters with my wife, she was actually not interested.(Before becoming a JW, she had typed out General Discharge papers in the army, usually involving sexual matters. The army found that she could be trusted with a security clearance.) In any event, I asked for an opportunity to sit down with this sister and another elder. The sister came into the meeting, clutching a handkerchief, her face red from emotion. She rambled for an hour and a half, but could not specifically state the confidential matters that had been revealed. It was a very weird meeting.
tms
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74
Living Through the Brief Liberalization of Jehovah's Witnesses, Never Recovering
by TMS inwith the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
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TMS
"I was lucky the fluctuating lightbulb known as "new light" shone in my favor in the mid-70s.
Receiving medicines derived from blood were considered a matter of conscience then, and I was able to receive a medication that helped ensure the healthy birth of my son.
By the time the bulb dimmed again in the 80s, I was long gone."
Good for you, return of the parakeet.
tms
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74
Living Through the Brief Liberalization of Jehovah's Witnesses, Never Recovering
by TMS inwith the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
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TMS
"Something you left out was the change in understanding of the term "minister." Suddenly, only the appointed brothers were "ministers," and the rest of us were just slobs."
Yes, cobaltcupcake. That shift in the definition of "minister" changed all we had been taught. It briefly put us in line with the clergy of Christendom. The more humane way of dealing with disfellowshipped persons, if I remember correctly, was documented by the way Isrealites treated people of other nations, the Gentiles, which was humane, not cruel and the way the early Christians viewed people of the world.
Interestingly, most of these changes that involved liberalization were well-reasoned and taught. That is why it was difficult to swallow the swinging back of the hardline pendulum which was just policy change without similar so-called scriptural grounding. Sometimes, like the return of the circuit overseer to almighty status was never actually noted. It just happened.
tms
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74
Living Through the Brief Liberalization of Jehovah's Witnesses, Never Recovering
by TMS inwith the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
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TMS
"Interesting. This is an era I didn't experience firsthand, and never knew existed. How sad that in the battle between "light" and "dark", the dark won. Who knows, maybe someday there will be a reversal -- or maybe that brief shift in thinking was an ill-fated fluke from the beginning. Maybe I should read the James book, now I'm curious...."
Apognophos,
It appears to have been a fluke, likely the result of the influence of Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap, etc. The current mindset with assigned hotel rooms, dumbed down talks and literature, crackdowns on dress, grooming, socialization and independent study would have met resistance back then. I can remember a few of us going to the door with the Bible only, no literature, on occasion, just to show it to be our real source of guidance.
tms
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74
Living Through the Brief Liberalization of Jehovah's Witnesses, Never Recovering
by TMS inwith the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
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TMS
"I could tell you stories of problems at Bethel that later "appeared" in the KMs to counteract them."
Yes, Dogpatch. A circuit overseer tipped me off in the mid-60's that frequently Watchtower and KM articles frequently related to some situation that developed at Bethel or "in the field." He taught me to "read between the lines."
I didn't realize it until years later, but my belief and continued practice of some of the principles learned in the 70's caused me to be viewed as a sort of maverick elder with a questionable attitude. I was entrenched, so not easily removed, but I noticed myself bypassed more and more for privileges that were given to younger, more militant elders. One of my last assignments was to conduct Pioneer Service School. I was paired with a longtime circuit overseer. No two men were ever less alike. I remember disagreeing with almost every bit of advice he gave to the pioneers.
tms