another old thread
Posts by TMS
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39My Personal Proof That Elders Are Not Appointed by Holy Spirit
by TMS inthis topic is not about men living sinfully at the time of their appointment as elders.
it is not about pedophile elders, although i've personally known three, two who were pedophiles at the time of their appointment by the governing body of jehovah's witnesses.. first of all a quick summary of what jehovah's witnesses are taught about the appointment of elders and ministerial servants:.
before the visit of the circuit overseer, the local elders meet to consider who, if any, among the local congregation they will recommend as elders or .
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Public or Group Prayer As A Weapon
by TMS inone of the sillier notions taught at km schools is the concept of "teaching through prayer.
" the idea is that words supposedly directed to jehovah god through christ jesus are actually aimed at individuals who are in a position to say "amen" to the supplication.
for example, in a judicial setting brother pompous opens the hearing in prayer: "dear jehovah, we ask your blessing on this arrangement.
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TMS
Almost no one could identify with this thread six years ago. -
29
The Retractable Dangling Carrot
by TMS insome scattered thoughts about the granting or denial of privileges of service as a control mechanism:.
this method of persuasion involving reward or punishment is so deeply ingrained in watchtower function, it is second nature.
although sometimes subtle, sometimes blatant, everyone from new bible study to traveling overseer is subconsciously aware of the possible limiting of his official opportunities to serve god and his brothers.. .
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TMS
Opening my mail sometime in the spring, my heart would pound seeing a letter from the Watchtower, knowing it was my district assembly speaking assignment. Ripping the letter open, I would quickly scan it to see if the part was something I could "sink my teeth into."
These superfluous perks were not worth the time spent away from family for rehearsals, not to mention the elder duties needed to maintain the privilege, but that was not my mindset at the time.
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The Retractable Dangling Carrot
by TMS insome scattered thoughts about the granting or denial of privileges of service as a control mechanism:.
this method of persuasion involving reward or punishment is so deeply ingrained in watchtower function, it is second nature.
although sometimes subtle, sometimes blatant, everyone from new bible study to traveling overseer is subconsciously aware of the possible limiting of his official opportunities to serve god and his brothers.. .
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TMS
this thread from 14 years ago may or may not be relevant now -
74
Living Through the Brief Liberalization of Jehovah's Witnesses, Never Recovering
by TMS inwith the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
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TMS
a couple things. . . . . .This thread from three years ago came about as I finally understood why my last few years on the elder body were so problematic. My difficulty sprung from actually believing in the principles taught about the role of the conscience, the understanding of the word minister, "Rights or Duties, Which?", etc.
As stated in the thread, reverting back to the old ways was not something taught. The pendulum simply swung. I recall raising the ire of fellow elders by using that exact phrase, "the pendulum has swung" when referring to the backtracking on the treatment of the disfellowshipped, the relative authority of the circuit overseer, etc. "No pendulum has swung," I recall a newer elder correcting me. "This is spirit direction."
After 50 years in and now 20 years deprogramming, decompressing, detoxifying, it's obviously a process. At least the nightmares and angry wordfights in my sleep have dissipated. What I can share is that the most painful things in those memories were always things I didn't say or didn't express well enough.
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74
Living Through the Brief Liberalization of Jehovah's Witnesses, Never Recovering
by TMS inwith the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.
we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.
some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.
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TMS
just reminiscing -
45
When selling was preaching ...
by Hecce ini am going way, way back.
history reveals that in the beginning the wt was just a publishing house, selling books and magazines; over the years it evolved into what it is today..
the placement of the original publications was mostly done thru sales people masquerading as preachers.
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TMS
Hecce: "the pioneer’s cost was like an allowance to help them with the transportation and some other expenses in their ministry."
Indeed. Moving from the Pacific Northwest, where "placements" were difficult, to the Texas/Mexico border in the mid-60's, I definitely had more pocket change. "Truth" and "Evolution" books cost pioneers a nickle and magazines a penny. The key was having adequate literature in Spanish. When you consider gas was 25 cents a gallon and Corona Extra about 20 cents in Mexico, life was good.
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Living as Christians at the C.L.A.M this week
by Truthexplorer inthis weeks meeting under the section - living as 'christians', starts off with 'repentance makes a difference', which is a talk given by an elder taken from w06 11/15 27-28 par 7-9. in a nut shell it discusses those who have been disfellowshipped and then show repentance.
it then goes on to discuss reinstatement and how a certain amount of time must pass by before this can take place.
it makes the following point in the paragraph.. 'a disfellowshipped person is not automatically accepted back into the congregation after a certain amount of time has passed.
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TMS
In 1995 three disfellowshipped young men in their early 20's were given appointments for individual reinstatement hearings scheduled just 15 minutes apart. They all arrived at the Kingdom Hall in separate cars, not interacting in the parking lot.
As the first young man exited the hall after just a few minutes, he gave a thumbs up to the other two.
Within an hour, all three had been reinstated.
Had all three miraculously demonstrated repentance at the same time? How did the committee know that the hearings would be so brief that they could schedule them that close together? Isn't the operation of holy spirit wonderful?
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59
Would I lie to you?
by slimboyfat ingiven recent posts on the forum and discussion, maybe we could play this game: would i lie to you?
in the uk we have this tv programme where minor celebrities tell weird or embarrassing stories about themselves and the rest of the participants have to guess if it is a true story or made up.
when the others have voted then the person reveals if the story is true or false.
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TMS
1. A group of group of 15 or so young JW young men were at a playground basketball court. The group was evenly mixed between black and white brothers, but several white brothers languished on the sidelines, not being picked to play. One tall white brother had enough of this and at the conclusion of one game shouted "blacks versus whites!"
Quickly, two teams took the court, entering into an overly competitive game of b-ball which was eventually one by the blacks, but not without a couple loud disagreements.
2. At what we used to call a District Convention, a brother in his mid-twenties approached me. "You know, TMS, I was appointed a department head at this assembly, well actually, another brother and I were both given departments. I don't think it's right. All we did was lay carpet in the circuit overseer's RV and we get the appointments. I'm not accepting it. I've never even been an assistant before. I don't think this is right. We shouldn't have received these assignments for doing a favor for the circuit overseer."
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59
Would I lie to you?
by slimboyfat ingiven recent posts on the forum and discussion, maybe we could play this game: would i lie to you?
in the uk we have this tv programme where minor celebrities tell weird or embarrassing stories about themselves and the rest of the participants have to guess if it is a true story or made up.
when the others have voted then the person reveals if the story is true or false.
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TMS
slimboyfat: "TMS I'd like the second story to be true. Good story."
Actually, that was the phony, fabricated, but "feel good" account.