Posts by TMS

23

My Personal Invitation to the Celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal

by TMS in

by no means is this a heartwarming "experience" illustrating how an ex-jw skillfully "reached the heart" of a current jw, moving them to re-examine their belief system.

that won't be my take on my half hour visit with an elder's wife last sunday.

no one scored points here as is almost always the case in these interactions.. we live at the extreme southern tip of texas, on the u.s.-mexico border in a city of about 200,000. twenty years ago there were 20 spanish language congregations, 2 english.

TMS

Not that I've had many of these conversations, but. . . . a few years ago, a terrible tsunami wave killed hundreds in the far east. News reports indicated that indigenous people, relying on oral tradition had noticed warning signs of the danger and taken to higher ground.

About that time, I saw a man, about 35 or so, walking toward my door, accompanied by his 11 or 12 year old son. On that occasion I did not identify myself as a former JW. I fawned over the man's son a bit and then listened to the start of his presentation.

"You call your god Jehovah, right?" I asked.

"Yes, God's name is Jehovah," he responded, offering to show it to me in the Bible. I think he was flipping to Psalms 83:18 before I stopped him.

"Ok, so that book says that we are God or Jehovah's children, right?"

"Yes, we are God's children," he agreed.

"So, why," I asked, "did God not warn hundreds of his children that a tsunami was coming? He saw it coming, didn't he? Is there a reason he simply chose to watch them all die?"

He stood there thinking with no immediate response.

Then I addressed him by his first name which I now forget. "If you, as a father, had simply watched your son die, doing nothing to protect him or warn him, how would that be viewed by the authorities? Would you not be guilty of child abuse?"

The Witness man simply said "I have no answer for that. Thank you, sir, for your time."

From time to time I think about that man and his son. The son would likely now be well into his teenage years.

23

My Personal Invitation to the Celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal

by TMS in

by no means is this a heartwarming "experience" illustrating how an ex-jw skillfully "reached the heart" of a current jw, moving them to re-examine their belief system.

that won't be my take on my half hour visit with an elder's wife last sunday.

no one scored points here as is almost always the case in these interactions.. we live at the extreme southern tip of texas, on the u.s.-mexico border in a city of about 200,000. twenty years ago there were 20 spanish language congregations, 2 english.

TMS

Overall, I think I was very gentle. After all, I don't really have any emotional stake in whether or not she continues in the religion. I'm sort of past that. When I spot a group of JWs in a neighborhood, no anger wells up inside me. Instead, I find myself noticing their clothing, trying to see if there is any sense of urgency about them or if any young ones are tagging along, wishing they were on a Little League ball field.

If any of my words stung, it was when I accidentally revealed my last name. She asked if I was related to so-and-so, a "brother" in her congregation. "Yes, that's my younger brother," I said wistfully. "I'm very surprised he's still in the religion. I thought he was smarter than that."

I meant that. My brother was removed as an elder during his divorce about 25 years ago. He lived sort of a double life after that for a number of years, smoking cigars, doing basically what he wanted to do while still attending meetings, etc. I always assumed he'd seen through the bullshit and was just going through the motions to hold his family together and keep his friends. Not so. He's back to a fully functioning JW. I've even heard "what wonderful talks he gives." Lol.

Likely, he heard her version of our conversation at the Kingdom Hall that afternoon.

23

My Personal Invitation to the Celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal

by TMS in

by no means is this a heartwarming "experience" illustrating how an ex-jw skillfully "reached the heart" of a current jw, moving them to re-examine their belief system.

that won't be my take on my half hour visit with an elder's wife last sunday.

no one scored points here as is almost always the case in these interactions.. we live at the extreme southern tip of texas, on the u.s.-mexico border in a city of about 200,000. twenty years ago there were 20 spanish language congregations, 2 english.

TMS

Thanks Zeb. .

moomanchu, it's not a meal and during my years as a JW almost no one partook. A couple of times I took the bottle used for the wine home and finished it off. It felt a little weird, but wine is just wine, not an "emblem," except during the "memorial."

23

My Personal Invitation to the Celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal

by TMS in

by no means is this a heartwarming "experience" illustrating how an ex-jw skillfully "reached the heart" of a current jw, moving them to re-examine their belief system.

that won't be my take on my half hour visit with an elder's wife last sunday.

no one scored points here as is almost always the case in these interactions.. we live at the extreme southern tip of texas, on the u.s.-mexico border in a city of about 200,000. twenty years ago there were 20 spanish language congregations, 2 english.

TMS

StephaneLaliberte,

"radiation?" Over 50 years ago, a man at the door interrupted my JW spiel to ask: "I've seen you around town. How old are you, 19 or 20? If you're not in college, you need to be and stop wasting your life with this bullshit."

That stung and was never forgotten.

OUTLAW. . that's a perfect graphic for how I felt. Each word seemed wasted on a being with no comprehension. It even felt like I was wasting time writing about the incident. . One point in the discussion seemed to touch a tiny nerve. I detailed some facts about a congregation servant I replaced who was grooming and abusing teenage girls. She thought about her elder husband, saying: "That would be on Victor. He knows better than that. He would be fully responsible for that."

Village Idiot,

Yes, the memorial is incongruous with every other meeting in that respect. JWs don't actually talk much about Jesus unless they are saying "in Jesus name" closing a prayer.

23

My Personal Invitation to the Celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal

by TMS in

by no means is this a heartwarming "experience" illustrating how an ex-jw skillfully "reached the heart" of a current jw, moving them to re-examine their belief system.

that won't be my take on my half hour visit with an elder's wife last sunday.

no one scored points here as is almost always the case in these interactions.. we live at the extreme southern tip of texas, on the u.s.-mexico border in a city of about 200,000. twenty years ago there were 20 spanish language congregations, 2 english.

TMS

By no means is this a heartwarming "experience" illustrating how an ex-JW skillfully "reached the heart" of a current JW, moving them to re-examine their belief system. That won't be my take on my half hour visit with an elder's wife last Sunday. No one scored points here as is almost always the case in these interactions.

We live at the extreme southern tip of Texas, on the U.S.-Mexico border in a city of about 200,000. Twenty years ago there were 20 Spanish language congregations, 2 English. I have no idea if the numbers hold today, but the Witnesses are very active here and seeing groups out in field service or a tandem making a return visit is not at all uncommon.

This past Sunday I was trimming the oleander bushes at my son's house, when I was approached by a nicely dressed woman likely in her mid-forties, working alone, inviting me to the memorial. I refused the invitation, quickly explaining that I had a long history as a JW and was totally familiar with her belief system.

Absolutely undaunted, the confident young lady asked if a particular incident had "disappointed" or "stumbled" me or if I had an issue with a particular belief. I laughed, not sarcastically, but knowingly, as an older man gently dealing with a potential daughter figure.

"No, no. no!" I said. "It's much broader than that. I learned absolutely that Jehovah's Witnesses are simply another man-made religion, not unlike the Seventh Day Adventists. In fact, many of their beliefs originated with the Adventists. They are a high control, suffocating religion not dissimilar to the Amish, the Mennonites, etc., fearful of their adherents gaining incite from outside sources that will undermine their belief."

"But, I know it's futile to even have this conversation. You can't disprove by evidence someone's beliefs. We tried that years ago as JWs, trying to read scriptures disproving the trinity or a burning hell. It didn't work then and it wouldn't work with you. Nor would I necessarily want it to work. I spent 50 years of my life interfering, trying to effect people's belief systems. I'm done with that."

She was the one that wanted to press on with the discussion, not me. So, I gave her what she wanted, touching on the huge scandals involving protecting child molesters and the organization to the incredible harm to innocent molestation victims. She claimed to remember the young woman in Canada, molested by a JW, who was forced to pay $100,000 in legal costs, to know about Conti in California and the ARC in Australia.

"We must remember that Jehovah sees all of this, hates it and will deal with it," she tried to say.

"Oh, really? I countered. There is no evidence that Jehovah or any other God has done anything to protect these little ones or right the injustice."

I looked her in the eyes and said: "Obviously, NONE of this touches you just as I knew it wouldn't."

Despite my better judgement, I kept going. I illustrated the warped justice of stoning juvenile delinquents in Israel, while not punishing King David for adultery AND murder. "Jehovah killed the ONLY innocent in that whole situation, the young child of David and Bath-Sheba."

I covered Malawi-Mexico, thoroughly. She must KNOW that the JW men just across the Rio Grande from our conversation are allowed to bribe government officials for a tarjeta declaring they have fulfilled their military service obligations while JWs in Malawi were told to take a stand of NOT buying a one dollar party card that would have saved them from loss of their homes, fields, the raping of their wives and daughters as well as many their lives in many cases.

None of this remotely fazed her.

When I mentioned that my wife and I felt we had both totally wasted our 50 plus years with Jehovah's Witnesses, as well as jeopardizing our son's success in life, we talked briefly about the JWs stance on education. She had to tell me that she received a masters degree before becoming a JW. Her dad was a lawyer. "I come from a well-educated family," she claimed.

I just shook my head. It sort of felt like shaking the dust off my feet.

"Well, we would love to see you for the Memorial if you're able," she blurted out as she departed.

"I will never set foot in a Kingdom Hall for any reason," I responded.

Neither us came remotely close to losing our composure in this fruitless conversation. As she turned her back I resumed trimming bushes.

57

Any ExJw Millenials here? If not which Gen do you fall under?

by Hidethevelociraptors in

jw
friends

if anyone had to guess, what do you think the average age of the community actually is?.

are more millennials actually waking up or is it pretty even amongst previous generations as well?

.

TMS

born just after WWII. . . . as a kid learned that the name Jehovah appeared 8029 times in the American Standard Version, could name the four generals of Alexander the Great, watched the first Sputnik cross the sky, sometimes watched Howdy Doody on TV.

23

inquiring mind has 3 questions

by OutsiderLookingIn in

just a few questions from a newbie.

answer one or as many as you want.

1. why cleaners?

TMS

"You get involved, possibly married and all of a sudden, your dear darling sweetheart flips the script and is trying to get reinstated into a world of crazy you did not sign up for."

There is, of course, no way you can anticipate that. The temporarily banished JW has no real dating or relationship experience. When things settle down, they face losing their family and any friends in the cult unless the "repent" and "return to Jehovah." Of course, this is not what you signed up for, but, unfortunately, you feel the effects of a cult you never joined.

38

Honestly, Did Jehovah's Witnesses Do Anything POSITIVE For You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was raised as a witness and am very thankful that i am out.

having said that, i think my upbringing produced positive qualities in me.

do you believe that anything positive came from your being a witness?

TMS

In fifty years of JWdom I learned to "conduct myself as a lesser one," not be assertive, downplay my skills, not pursue educational, business or money-making opportunities. Yes, I did learn "repetition for emphasis, modulation, use of illustrations, condensation and pausing for emphasis."

Now, nearly twenty years out, I've been unlearning JW bullshit, frequently reliving my entry level employment and JW conflicts in nightmares, while finding my energy level and strength depleted.

Increasingly, I find nothing positive about my JW "heritage."

23

inquiring mind has 3 questions

by OutsiderLookingIn in

just a few questions from a newbie.

answer one or as many as you want.

1. why cleaners?

TMS

"why cleaners?"

What I think you are referring to is the number of JWs who have janitorial services, wash windows, clean houses, etc. For the United States, the janitorial work may have started in California in the late 50's. It was honest work, could be done during hours that didn't interfere with meetings, field service, etc. If the work was done efficiently the pay was actually more per hour than many traditional jobs. The appearance and speaking skills of many young, male pioneers made them trusted contractors for doctor or lawyer offices needing reliable, honest services.

"2/3 leave?"

Not certain if that's accurate, but you are correct that many disfellowshipped JWs still believe and desperately desire reinstatement.

"romantic interest in JWs?"

this has been proven time and again to be a frustrating dead end. The object of your affection will want nothing less than your conversion to the cult.

6

Booze Boy, The Early Years

by olongapo joe in

someone commented on an old post, "jw's attract a lot of misfits and alcoholics" yep, fits my family to a t. booze was at every family reunion, party, picnic, you name it, if my family was gonna be there, there was gonna be lots of booze.

my pops was cheap (he dropped out of school in the 9th grade, so only worked low paying jobs) so to save money on beer, he and my uncle decide to make some homebrew (this is in the early 70's, before all the beer brewing kits you can get now).

they got a recipe from some old codger, dug up an old 30 gallon crock from god only knows where, and commences to buying cans of malt, bags of sugar, cases of empty bottles, a hand operated capping machine the whole nine yards, oh, it was a big operation, yep, were gonna save a bundle on beer!.

TMS

In 1970 the "Society" sent my wife and I to Danville, Arkansas in dry Yell county. We quickly learned from a local JW how to make wine from 3 cans of frozen Welch's Grape Juice, 3 cups of sugar, a gallon of water and a large balloon. The ingredients were put into a gallon jug with the balloon at the mouth of the jug. The balloon would inflate like crazy during fermentation, then deflate when the product was ready.