Ucantnome,"I'm quite good at finding scriptures in the NWT and handing out leaflets"
have you ever considered full-time service?
Posts by TMS
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27Embracing, Not Running From, My Repressive JW Heritage, Finding A Few Things Worth Salvaging
by TMS inyes, we could have been born in an alley in calcutta or with the physical deformities associated with thalidomide.
instead, we were born into or introduced to a repressive, american, religious cult, that shielded us from the warmongering game of chess, the militaristic boy scouts, fornication-inducing sock hops, the twist, as well as the hokey pokey.
we heeded the warnings, avoiding the greedy self-worship associated with masturbation, decadent rock 'n roll and anything preceded by the word "extra-curricular.".
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27
Embracing, Not Running From, My Repressive JW Heritage, Finding A Few Things Worth Salvaging
by TMS inyes, we could have been born in an alley in calcutta or with the physical deformities associated with thalidomide.
instead, we were born into or introduced to a repressive, american, religious cult, that shielded us from the warmongering game of chess, the militaristic boy scouts, fornication-inducing sock hops, the twist, as well as the hokey pokey.
we heeded the warnings, avoiding the greedy self-worship associated with masturbation, decadent rock 'n roll and anything preceded by the word "extra-curricular.".
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TMS
enjoyed your points, millie210 and Pete Zahut. Yes, we get a unique lesson from our experiences, whatever they were, Nazi concentration camps or the streets of Calcutta or something in between.
Would I have learned more as a freshman at the University of Washington than being a 17 year old on the streets of Brownsville, Texas, with Spanish by far the predominant language? Imagine the cultural shock of being dropped off 8 AM on Saturday morning on the main business street, then picked up at noon in what could just have well been Mexico City, with loud music, business owner's who actually cared about religion in my face. Later that week, I was at the Port of Brownsville boarding ships from Norway, Liberia and England, talking "the truth."
Maybe, my eventual wife and I shouldn't have agreed to move to central Arkansas when I was 21 and she 25 where I replaced a pedophile Congregation Servant. Again, cultural shock, working for minimum wage at a chicken plant and wood product factory under unsafe conditions, meeting a wide variety of folk, unsavory and savory.
What about our ten years as basically the only whites at the last unsegregated black congregation in Little Rock, Arkansas? Do we not have some insight few have experienced?
None of this is meant to undersell the harm done by the high control, dumbass religious cult known as Jehovah's Witnesses. I can actually agree with the uneducated, illiterate woman I met in the cotton field of Carden Bottoms, Arkansas in 1970. She tried to prove to me that "Jehovah was the last church in the Bible." She was right as rain, but couldn't prove it flipping through her Bible upside down.
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27
Embracing, Not Running From, My Repressive JW Heritage, Finding A Few Things Worth Salvaging
by TMS inyes, we could have been born in an alley in calcutta or with the physical deformities associated with thalidomide.
instead, we were born into or introduced to a repressive, american, religious cult, that shielded us from the warmongering game of chess, the militaristic boy scouts, fornication-inducing sock hops, the twist, as well as the hokey pokey.
we heeded the warnings, avoiding the greedy self-worship associated with masturbation, decadent rock 'n roll and anything preceded by the word "extra-curricular.".
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TMS
Ucantnome, it was presumptuous of me to speak for "all of us."
baker, whenever I'm tempted to bulldoze things over, I realize that I'm an ex-JW. I was actually raised as one and can't change my history, early training and influences. What I've tried to consciously discard is the judgementalism, the silly beliefs, prophetic types and other bullshit, the concept of "Almighty God Jehovah," that Prince referred to at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ceremony.
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27
Embracing, Not Running From, My Repressive JW Heritage, Finding A Few Things Worth Salvaging
by TMS inyes, we could have been born in an alley in calcutta or with the physical deformities associated with thalidomide.
instead, we were born into or introduced to a repressive, american, religious cult, that shielded us from the warmongering game of chess, the militaristic boy scouts, fornication-inducing sock hops, the twist, as well as the hokey pokey.
we heeded the warnings, avoiding the greedy self-worship associated with masturbation, decadent rock 'n roll and anything preceded by the word "extra-curricular.".
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TMS
Yes, stillin, a "dubious heritage." When I used the word "heritage" I was mindful of the 1967 black and white Watchtower aimed at young people. Circuit Overseers had the film for about a year and then it was sort of available to the congregations if you went through the hoops to get it. Longtime District Overseer Eugene Brandt's wife Blossom also used the word "heritage" in her life story published in the Watchtower. I recall at the time nearly gagging over her word choice.
Girodono, you got "nothing" from being a JW? I respect that viewpoint too. You had the good sense, "fortune" to get out at 23. How can I not envy you for that as I wasted a half century or more in the cult, then spent a dozen more years reliving my life in dreams.
My wife and I compounded, extended the misery, by exposing our now 44 year old son to the same limitations, hindrances and stifling of his potential.
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27
Embracing, Not Running From, My Repressive JW Heritage, Finding A Few Things Worth Salvaging
by TMS inyes, we could have been born in an alley in calcutta or with the physical deformities associated with thalidomide.
instead, we were born into or introduced to a repressive, american, religious cult, that shielded us from the warmongering game of chess, the militaristic boy scouts, fornication-inducing sock hops, the twist, as well as the hokey pokey.
we heeded the warnings, avoiding the greedy self-worship associated with masturbation, decadent rock 'n roll and anything preceded by the word "extra-curricular.".
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TMS
Yes, we could have been born in an alley in Calcutta or with the physical deformities associated with thalidomide. Instead, we were born into or introduced to a repressive, American, religious cult, that shielded us from the warmongering game of chess, the militaristic boy scouts, fornication-inducing sock hops, the Twist, as well as the Hokey Pokey. We heeded the warnings, avoiding the greedy self-worship associated with masturbation, decadent rock 'n roll and anything preceded by the word "extra-curricular."
Without exaggeration, we, the 50's, 60's, boomer and pre-boomer, non-flag saluting Witness kids grew up with limited social skills, awkward even when politely asked about our strange beliefs. Teachers and school counselors, were, for the most part, puzzled, but respectful, concerned about why we were so obviously, willingly, sabotaging our future, eschewing anything associated with "higher education," little know-it-alls that smugly knew the future so precisely we spoke about it in months, not years.
When, I tried to use my religion as an excuse for not being normal, my sixth grade non-JW friend, Dennis Kuder, said: "We all have our own little holies."
Six years later, an exasperated school counselor asked: "Why doesn't a minister or even a missionary need an education?"
Ironically, many of us, still teenagers, uneducated, but "ministers" with a Selective Service 4D classification to prove it, found ourselves "teaching" in the congregation, especially as pioneers "where the need, not greed, was great." My first big job was that of Theocratic Ministry School Servant. Betwixt and between the "Qualified to Be Ministers" book and the non-yet-released TMS guidebook, we relied on a series of Kingdom Ministry inserts with the new "counseling" points for TMS gurus. Like many young men and women from that era, I actually studied and restudied that shit, memorizing all of it, assimilating all of it, and, admittedly, use the skills to this very day. All of us acquired an undeniable skill set we need not unlearn. I list below just a few.
CONDENSATION: Write out a six minute talk. Now, condense it to a single paragraph, retaining ALL of the main points. Now, try putting all of that into a single sentence. It can be done. A useful skill? Yes, if you're suddenly forced to share your belief or viewpoint or idea in a greatly reduced amount of time.
ESTABLISHING COMMON GROUND: You have SOMETHING in common with everyone else on planet earth, whether a Satanist, nudist, KKK Grand Dragon, pope or ax murderer. Can you figure out what that is?
AUDIENCE CONTACT, USE OF NOTES: We learned that it wasn't a rhythmic scanning of the audience, but speaking to one person for a moment or two, then moving on to another and another. Bill Clinton eventually mastered this "fireside chat" technique. It is the most effective(in my view) form of public speaking. I recently spoke to the University of Texas Board of Regents in this manner, shaming them, reasoning with them about this ultra-rich university system taking control of a much-needed public park in the poorest city in the United States.
This is a small sample of the tiny bit of, yes, "education," we did receive from the WTBS. No, reading the Watchtower and Awake! was no replacement for an actual education. That's total foolishness.
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A Comment by Lieu Made It Obvious That I Could Not Be A JW in 2016
by TMS inthe following comment by lieu on another topic shows me that i would be totally frustrated, actually exasperated, stifled and depressed in the modern form of jwdom: "therein lies the real problem billy, no one is paying any attention at regular meetings let alone conventions.
it's too boring, intentionally i think.
humans aren't hardwired to sit through hours of lecture with no interactions.
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TMS
The following comment by Lieu on another topic shows me that I would be totally frustrated, actually exasperated, stifled and depressed in the modern form of JWdom: "Therein lies the real problem Billy, no one is paying any attention at regular meetings let alone conventions. It's too boring, intentionally I think. Humans aren't hardwired to sit through hours of lecture with no interactions. No one learns anything in such a manner. No matter the size, you can't ask any questions so you sit there ... just being.
My entire JW experience, from giving talks in the Theocratic Ministry School at age 6 to public talks at 17 was based on participation. Never did I go to a meeting flat-footed without totally knowing the material, having looked up the cited scriptures, etc., not to dominate the meeting, but to at least make a couple meaningful contributions. My wife of 47 years was of the same bent.
For years, I kept a taped copy of the 1963 TMS schedule in my "All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial" book, with 40 parts underlined where I volunteered to give the talk when a student did not show up.
Please, don't take this as self-promotional or narcissistic. It is not. I just realized, after reading Lieu's comment, that I would not have fit in with the current JW world, where, seemingly, the attendee is expected to just occupy a seat and listen.
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Field Service Privilege Can Be Taken Away Due to Hairstyle and Tight Pants???
by Wild_Thing inmillie2105 hours agohere is something i just found out this week.former belief - field service is a publishers inalienable right new belief - field service privilege can be taken away if person styles hair or wears clothing in a way that is deemed metrosexual.i was pretty much dumbfounded.. this was posted on another thread, so i decided to start a new topic about this.
i think this is amazing!
i wish this was in place when i was a kid.
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TMS
Brother Prince Rogers Nelson may be rolling over in his grave.
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57
Did you participate in a Drama?
by Hecce ini am bringing this up because even it was a lot of work, for the majority of the friends this was a rewarding experience.
camaraderie, joking, costumes, props and when the time came the celebrity status of being in the drama.. back in the 50s and 60s, conventions could be as long as 8 days and from about 1966 the dramas became an integral part of the program.
we had one per day and the brothers looked forward to their presentation.
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TMS
Yes, a couple. . . . both, I think in the mid-seventies.
1. Something relating to the rebellion led by Korah. At the district convention we "rebels" had to jump off the stage onto a huge mattress to illustrate the "earth opening up." Stage lights kept the mattress in the dark. My wife and I were still regular pioneers and, thnking back on it, I should not have accepted the assignment. The prominent elder wanted me in the cast, but not my wife. I bought her a small black and white to cope with her lonely nights while I was at the arduous rehearsals. It still gnaws at me that the elder in charge, on a night he couldn't make it, bypassed me and another elder to lead the practice session in favor of his 18 year old son. Yes, face and leg paint, face beards and weird costumes.
2. After my first negative experience with a drama, I was approached by Bill Perkins, presiding overseer of the huge "black" congregation, Little Rock East. Bill, easily more articulate than the Watchtower's J.R. Brown, had been sent as a Special Pioneer to Little Rock in the early 60's. He persuaded me, against my instincts, to help him direct the drama, cleverlyagreeing to include my wife and 3 year old son(now 44) in non-speaking roles. I also played "Brother Kindly" in the drama as the only white "actor." Back then Little Rock East was such a large congregation(blacks from all over the city bypassed territory boundaries to attend with a wink-wink from the white congregations) that we had split meetings, two TMS/Service Meetings and two Public Meeting/Watchtower Studies. Bill used the split public meetings to have 4 full dress rehearsals to practice the drama in front of a live audience before the Memphis assembly. So, the congregation saw the drama at least twice before the assembly.
When we got to Memphis, Bill wanted another rehearsal on stage before the program started. Circuit Overseer Leroy Langan, in charge of news releases was bothering the performers for "action shots." Bill, motioning to me and, pointing to Langan, said: "Jim, could you handle that guy!." So, I walked over to Langan, who had served as my C.O. a few years previously and basically told him he was interfering with our rehearsal. LOL.
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1958 Convention Program. 8 days from 9am till 9pm. Anyone attend?
by StopTheTears inhow in the world did they justify this torture?
imagine the children forced to sit in the summer heat at yankee stadium for 12 hours a day.
for 8 days.
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TMS
A couple more memories from the Around the World 8-day assembly in Pasadena in 1963: On the bus trip down to Pasadena, a two year old in a onesie sleep outfit, was using the overhead storage rack as what we used to call "monkey bars," swinging from rack to rack with absolute ease. Some of the adult Witnesses were aghast, but most of us just marveled at the dexterity, fearlessness and aplomb of this gymnast. Finally, the driver got on the microphone and admonished the parents to control their child.
One more: Knorr's closing talk went way overtime. He actually announced to the audience in his opening statement that, if they had some deadline like a plane or bus to catch, it would be acceptable to leave, but that he was going to go well overtime. Finally, I got worried that I would miss my bus and made my way out to the parking lot. The bus was nearly filled. The brother who arranged the trip had a speaker inside the bus so all could hear the closing talk.
The bus driver, an affable guy, likely near retirement age, said we would have to leave very soon to get the bus back on time. At one point the driver, not a Witness, said: "Man, that guy likes to hear himself talk," a statement that didn't go over too well with the Knorrites. The driver set at least two deadlines, then gave in to the JW passengers wanting to hear Knorr out. Finally, he started the bus, gave us another few minutes, then, after apologizing to the cult group, took off. I, for one, totally understood, despite being mesmerized by Nathan Knorr.
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1958 Convention Program. 8 days from 9am till 9pm. Anyone attend?
by StopTheTears inhow in the world did they justify this torture?
imagine the children forced to sit in the summer heat at yankee stadium for 12 hours a day.
for 8 days.
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TMS
Just a few quick observations about the 1958 and 1963 8 day conventions: In 1958, we camped on the side of the road in our trip from Renton, Washington to N.Y. I was ten years old at the time. We traveled with a couple planning to go where the need was great in Ecuador, not as Gilead missionaries, but, on their own. We were not on friendly terms with them by the time we got to New York. On the trip across the country, I was stung by a bee that flew up my shirt sleeve.
As someone stated, the convention was held jointly at Yankee Stadium and the Polo Grounds. My dad told us that, should we be separated, we should wait at a designated numbered gate until discovered. When, I got lost among the throngs, I simply went to that gate and waited. My dad found me a couple hours later and seemed surprised I'd actually listened.
I remember the fake New York newspapers we bought with pages of pictures and articles about the JWs as if they actually made the front page. I still remember the headline "Witnesses Styled City's Best Guests." I also remember the attendance on the last day as 253,922. Rumors surfaced that the U.S. Army was analyzing the JW methods of serving so many during mealtime. LOL.
We went to the Polo Grounds six days and Yankee Stadium twice. On the last day Yankee Stadium officials allowed us to sit on the ball field. The sisters were instructed to remove their high heels.
Five years later, as a teenager, I went with a privately organized group that had chartered an old Tacoma city bus and a non-JW driver for the trek to Pasadena for the 1963 8 day assembly. As we neared the Rose Bowl, we encountered a massive traffic jam with the freeway a proverbial parking lot. Since we could see the stadium, but weren't moving, my friend George and I got permission to walk the rest of the way. We got seats in the upper deck of concrete bleachers and could see our old bus creeping in two hours later.
Yes, it was hot. I finally got some butcher paper from the cafeteria an sat in one of box seat areas directly on concrete with the butcher paper over my head as a sunscreen, . I remember about 8 "releases," among them the "Babylon the Great, God's Kingdom Rules!" book, "All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial," the huge reference New World Translation, a brochure on the Around the World conventions, etc. My limited funds from janitorial work and painting that summer did not permit me to buy copies for the whole family, upsetting my dad on my return. I was the only family member who went.
The contracted hotel, not engaged through the Society, turned out to be a huge flop house on Figueroa Street, condemned for the still-in-the-future Los Angeles Music Center. Even though the rate was only 80 cents per night, most of the brothers and sisters refused to stay there, finding other accommodations. I was totally pleased with the patchwork quilted beds(my room had two beds) and the claw-footed old bath tub. I saw my first knife fight from my hotel window and met prostitutes in the lobby. The night desk clerk would engage us in horseplay, putting me in a sleeper hold one night after the session. Smelling salts woke me up to laughter in lobby. One late night I walked to a Chinese restaurant on Vine Street. They were closed, but thought I was homeless and let me in for all the steamed rice I could eat. When I tried to pay, they charged me ten cents. On my way back to the hotel, I ran into dangerous "worldly" guy who wanted to know what I was "up to." When I told him I was there for the convention, he laughed, telling me how "easy" the JW chicks were.
Kent-Meridian High School administrators were upset that I missed the first week of school as this final "Around the World" convention was held the first week of September. I was able to give them a great "witness." LOL