Posts by TMS

6

"Where Is Jehovah In All of This?" My Wife, July of '93

by TMS in

the title above is a question asked by my wife seemingly hundreds of times in 1993, the year our only child was disfellowshipped.

the entire story exceeds the reasonable limits of this forum and i have to suppress the urge to write it.

instead, i will give little snippets, what a certain elder said at this or that point, how jehovah's organization treated us, how we handled our gradual awakening to, yes, "the truth about the truth.

TMS

The title above is a question asked by my wife seemingly hundreds of times in 1993, the year our only child was disfellowshipped. The entire story exceeds the reasonable limits of this forum and I have to suppress the urge to write it. Instead, I will give little snippets, what a certain elder said at this or that point, how Jehovah's organization treated us, how we handled our gradual awakening to, yes, "the truth about the truth." Perhaps, as a JW or ex-JW, you will recognize some of the attitudes, approaches and policies we experienced, leading to our eventual freedom.

Judicial committees are typically formed during meetings of the elder body. The one involving our son and another young brother was no different, with one important exception. Immediately, after the elder's meeting adjourned, the judicial committee meeting commenced. Our son and the other young brother had been waiting in the wings, so to speak, for the elder's meeting to end. I was later told that things were orchestrated that way to prevent me, the boy's father, from "coaching" my son into displaying or faking 'acts befitting repentance."

This post is turning into exactly what I didn't want it to become. . I need to rethink this. It's difficult to simply blurt out situations without creating some context. . . . . . . . . . later

20

Which Public Talks did you enjoy giving/hearing? And which ones did you dislike giving or hearing?

by humblepotato in

jw
friends

i was just going through some of my talk outlines and i've decided to git rid of quite a few of them.

i'm still serving, but as time goes on... there are many subjects i will not teach anymore.. i got rid of the outlines dealing with blood, the field ministry, and ones talking about 607 and 1914. i can barely stand hearing them let alone give them.

in fact, talk 41 "stand still and see the salvation of jehovah" is one i got rid of because its whole point was about having blind obedience toward the gb and the elders during the great tribulation, and that we need to start practicing obedience now if we want to survive.

TMS

The absolute worst outlines were the so-called Special Talks. Many years ago, they were actually a manuscript, meant to be read, although I never allowed mine to sound that way.

I always exercised nearly absolute control over the outlines I received, going over them carefully before accepting them. Recycled circuit overseer outlines offered the most freedom.

Although, I couldn't give any of those talks with a straight face now, the old talk on the book of Proverbs, illustrating the difference between knowledge, understanding and wisdom was a favorite. "Is This Life All There Is?" had some possibilities. "Harmony of the Gospels," comparing the distinct purpose of each of the four accounts, the point of view, etc. Many were surprised to learn that there was a difference between Matthew and Luke's list of Jesus ancestry. (No, it was not just that one went back only as far as Abraham, while the other went all the way back to Adam.)

My last few years as a JW, the best talks were the shortest ones.

4

My Pseudo-Education Hasn't Hurt Me None, I Can Still Read the Writing on King Belshazzar's Wall~Part II

by TMS in

what a risk; installing part ii before determining if anyone ever cares for part i. .

joe b. barnett, a cool, charismatic jw, married my aunt doris.

he sold his '55 orange and white chevy convertible, bought a vw bug and pioneered.

TMS

What a risk; installing Part II before determining if anyone ever cares for Part I.

Joe B. Barnett, a cool, charismatic JW, married my aunt Doris. He sold his '55 orange and white Chevy convertible, bought a VW bug and pioneered. He was not an ordinary pioneer, JW or uncle. We're 11 years apart in age, which would make him 79 at this strategic point and time.

A phrase I frequently use, "stymied, stifled and squelched," is borrowed from Uncle Joe. He also learned a few things from my precocious little JW self, but I doubt he remembers.

Joe taught JWism in a smooth, palatable way, with illustrations, reasoning honed from years of proselytizing to unbelievers. He loved to actually teach. "Look at that chapter, pick a theme and four verses you want to use," he would tell us. Among his youthful disciples, I was probably the best at that. He never argued with my verse choices.

Uncle Joe brought janitorial work to the the Pacific Northwest JW world in the early 60's. He showed me the subliminal watchtower symbol on his "Castle Maintenance" business cards. All, nearly all of us, were into making a living in the off hours, bidding on jobs, waxing far into the night, janitorializing ourselves into pioneerdom.

Uncle Joe organized flag football extravagandas, with enough young male witnesses to make several teams. He like being Johnny Unitas, but, if another wanted to play quarterback, Uncle Joe could morph into Raymond Barry. Witnesses are frustrated athletes, frustrated businessmen, frustrated men, whose belief system stymies, stifles and squelches their aspirations, dreams, goals.

A few years ago, I received a phone call from Uncle Joe. He wanted to come down to Texas and spend a week with me. Why on earth and why now? He let it slip that he'd been spending some time with a mutual friend, George Pringle, and helped George "get his head on straight."

4

My Pseudo-Education Hasn't Hurt Me None, I Can Still Read the Writing on King Belshazzar's Wall~Part I

by TMS in

my maternal grandfather, adolph joseph deman, was in his mother's womb as the family crossed the ocean from east flander, belgium.

he was the first to be born in the u.s. in 1885. his father's death in 1888 contributed to his departure from school and work as a lad in the iron mines of republic, michigan.

the house he later built on a homestead in maple valley, washington, near kent, was a substantial pillar in my unstable early life as a precocious jw child in a dysfunctional home.

TMS

My maternal grandfather, Adolph Joseph DeMan, was in his mother's womb as the family crossed the ocean from East Flander, Belgium. He was the first to be born in the U.S. in 1885. His father's death in 1888 contributed to his departure from school and work as a lad in the iron mines of Republic, Michigan. The house he later built on a homestead in Maple Valley, Washington, near Kent, was a substantial pillar in my unstable early life as a precocious JW child in a dysfunctional home.

Grandfather DeMan, raised Catholic, but, during my lifetime one of the JW "anointed," typically sat in a recliner near the wood stove that heated the ancestral house. He read the Bible, underlining verses, alternately in red and blue, the two colors of his favorite pencil, while making notations in the margin. When I was maybe 14, he stopped me as I tried to hurry past his station near the stove, explaining that Adam and Eve were not merely naked in the garden after their sin, but, were actually nude. I quickly offered that they were "exposed." Grandpa liked that and quickly wrote the word in the margin.

A year or so later, I had the privilege of working in field service with grandpa, a "privilege," because despite being one of the 144,000, he seldom went in service, more interested in tilling, fertilizing and working his football-sized garden and making long-winded comments and prayers at the weekly Watchtower study. Grandpa and I were offering the green New World Translation Bible for a dollar to the public as authorized in the Kingdom Ministry. When I deferred to grandpa at the first door, he grabbed the green book in his bare hands and handed it to the shocked woman opening the door. "This will make a great Christmas present," he said.

As we walked to the next door, he said: "Maybe you should take the next door, Jimmie. You're a lot better at this than me."

About mid-morning, after I had exhausted my teenaged voice doing all the talking, grandpa saw a man working his garden. My grandpa took off his sportcoat and grabbed a hoe. He did tell the Czechoslovakian man who we were, but kept weeding and doing whatever hoes were meant to do. The man invited Adolph into his home and poured him a beer. "And the lad?" he asked. "Yes," my grandpa answered.

I drank my first beer in field service.

27

Embracing, Not Running From, My Repressive JW Heritage, Finding A Few Things Worth Salvaging

by TMS in

yes, we could have been born in an alley in calcutta or with the physical deformities associated with thalidomide.

instead, we were born into or introduced to a repressive, american, religious cult, that shielded us from the warmongering game of chess, the militaristic boy scouts, fornication-inducing sock hops, the twist, as well as the hokey pokey.

we heeded the warnings, avoiding the greedy self-worship associated with masturbation, decadent rock 'n roll and anything preceded by the word "extra-curricular.".

TMS

I can't deny that I'm frequently torn between my hatred for this bullshit religion and a feeble attempt to embrace my obvious influences.

5

Would Prince Rogers Nelson Have Been A More Effective Spokesperson for JWs Than Stephen Lett?

by TMS in

hearing about governing body member stephen lett, i had to check him out on you tube.

in short, were i still a jw, i would be embarrassed to be represented by this mouth-agape, cornpone, dufus.

he would be the kind of public speaker the local congregation might appreciate, but who you would not send out to another congregation.. in contrast, the last few weeks i took the opportunity to play every video on you tube where the late prince rogers nelson explained his beliefs as a jw.

TMS

thank you, stuckinarut2.. . I'm pretty sure I live in a different world.

45

The Ray Franz Saga

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

i'm just curious as to how it all happened.. to explain.

many years back, before ex-jw websites, i called on a local lady in order to design an extension to her already enormous house.

she was a young, voluptuous gal, married to a much older local business man who spared little expense in order to give his young wife whatever her heart desired.. we chatted for ages.

TMS

After an elder's meeting with the circuit overseer, actually Fred Lanier. . . .Lanier lingered after the meeting. unusually. It was obvious he had something to tell us. can't remember the exact year '81 or so. . . .Lanier in chit chat after the meeting talked about the df-shipping of Franz. . He attributed it to some closet Bible studies within Bethel reaching the conclusion that there was a secondary heavenly class. The message sent was that Ray had lost his humility and was stubbornly trying to promote new truth.. . . .for what its worth

5

Would Prince Rogers Nelson Have Been A More Effective Spokesperson for JWs Than Stephen Lett?

by TMS in

hearing about governing body member stephen lett, i had to check him out on you tube.

in short, were i still a jw, i would be embarrassed to be represented by this mouth-agape, cornpone, dufus.

he would be the kind of public speaker the local congregation might appreciate, but who you would not send out to another congregation.. in contrast, the last few weeks i took the opportunity to play every video on you tube where the late prince rogers nelson explained his beliefs as a jw.

TMS

It's pretty obvious that no one else in the ex-JW community, particularly those on this forum agree with me that Prince would have been a better representative for the WTBS than Lett.

Of course, this is all theoretical, because Prince Rogers Nelson would never have been selected as part of the GB or even in a J.R. Brown role as a press spokesperson.

Prince joined the JWs after losing his newborn child in whatever year, Fellow musician, Larry Graham, a JW, but, unlike Lett and other goobers on the GB, super smooth in presenting "the truth," converted Prince. Graham might have been the only person on the planet slick enough to convince Prince to be a JW.

It may not be obvious to anyone else on this forum, but had Prince been featured on JW.com broadcasts instead of Stephen Lett, the results would have been drastically different.

5

Would Prince Rogers Nelson Have Been A More Effective Spokesperson for JWs Than Stephen Lett?

by TMS in

hearing about governing body member stephen lett, i had to check him out on you tube.

in short, were i still a jw, i would be embarrassed to be represented by this mouth-agape, cornpone, dufus.

he would be the kind of public speaker the local congregation might appreciate, but who you would not send out to another congregation.. in contrast, the last few weeks i took the opportunity to play every video on you tube where the late prince rogers nelson explained his beliefs as a jw.

TMS

Hearing about Governing Body member Stephen Lett, I had to check him out on You Tube. In short, were I still a JW, I would be embarrassed to be represented by this mouth-agape, cornpone, dufus. He would be the kind of public speaker the local congregation might appreciate, but who you would not send out to another congregation.

In contrast, the last few weeks I took the opportunity to play every video on You Tube where the late Prince Rogers Nelson explained his beliefs as a JW. The double standard Prince and other JWs experienced notwithstanding as well as the man's obvious non-JW dress and grooming, Prince fielded questions about JW beliefs and practices 100 times more effectively than Lett.(I believe Cedars collected many of these Prince videos in one segment, although others exist.) I've never heard anyone explain the JW aversion to celebrating birthdays better than Prince. He fielded a question about Barack Obama skillfully as well.

Between the two men, Prince comes off as more genuinely spiritual, Lett as an organizational hack.

16

Running ahead of Jehovah can be done with a slow walk.

by donny in

a few days ago i read a post of someone who has recently awakened to what the watchtower bible and tract society really is.

in their comments, they stated that they had been accused of "running ahead of jehovah.".

"running ahead of jehovah" was a statement levied at me many times during my convoluted journey through that organization.

TMS

It's simply an injustice to be punished for believing or doing what's right. An organization actually led by a "God of justice" would, at the very least, correct the injustice, removing the punishment and its effects and exonerate the individual who was right all along.

Only a weak-minded, insecure, narcissistic cult would insist that it was wrong for a member to be thinking faster, more clearly and accurately, or even scripturally, than they themselves.

I even have a problem with the Bible account of Uzzah being killed by Jehovah for "steadying the ark." I feel his reaction was likely instinctive. Why would he in a split second decide to show up Jehovah? Wouldn't Jehovah have looked even weaker if the ark had fallen over on its side? Maybe Uzzah wasn't a hero, but Jehovah was completely out of line to kill him.