TMS

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Posts by TMS

• 
  31

  How the Circuit Overseer Manipulates the Body of Elders

  by TMS in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the relationship between local elders and the circuit overseer has fluctuated over the years.

  in the sixties, .

  the circuit overseer simply appointed all the servants.

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  TMS

  Gregor: "So this bastard C.O. pushed through the re-appointment of this kisser of womenfolk?

  I suspect, Gregor, that his offenses may have been understated a bit.

  tms
• 
  31

  How the Circuit Overseer Manipulates the Body of Elders

  by TMS in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the relationship between local elders and the circuit overseer has fluctuated over the years.

  in the sixties, .

  the circuit overseer simply appointed all the servants.

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  TMS

  Oompa,

  I'm not sure that I understand your question exactly. Do you mind spoonfeeding it to this old geezer?

  Thanks,

  tms
• 
  31

  How the Circuit Overseer Manipulates the Body of Elders

  by TMS in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the relationship between local elders and the circuit overseer has fluctuated over the years.

  in the sixties, .

  the circuit overseer simply appointed all the servants.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TMS

  The relationship between local elders and the circuit overseer has fluctuated over the years. In the sixties,
  the circuit overseer simply appointed all the servants. His recommendations were even written before meeting
  with the servant body. He would share his recommendations with them at that time and sometimes solicit their
  comments. He might adjust his recommendations based on what the servants said, but it was still his call.

  In the early to mid-seventies with the introduction of the elder arrangement, the relationship changed. At one
  point the circuit overseer became "just another elder" with no more authority than the local men. This was
  during a time when many things were being relaxed including how disfellowshipped ones were treated. This
  perestroika was of short duration.

  Since the mid-seventies the format has been something like this. The local elders meet about a week before
  the scheduled circuit overseer's visit to consider all possible recommendations for congregation responsibility.
  Typically, the scriptural requirements for ministerial servant and elder are read and each brother is compared
  to those requirements. The elders firm up their recommendations and these are given to the circuit overseer
  at the start of his visit. He can now observe those recommended, work in field service with them, critique
  their meeting parts, etc. When the circuit man meets with the local elders, he gives his observations on the
  men they have recommended. Unless there is some blatant failing like low field service hours, he usually rubber
  stamps the local elder's choices.

  Now, let me give you an actual example of how a clever circuit overseer can circumvent these checks and balances
  and promote a man of his own choosing"

  A prominent elder in the capital city of Arkansas "stepped down" from his responsibilities in the mid-80's.
  Don't jump on me about the terminology "stepped down" because it was still used then to avoid the stigma of
  deletion. This former elder moved into our congregation, which already had a large body of elders, most seasoned
  men. Soon, an odd letter came from the elder's former congregation. It stated that he had formed an emotional
  attachment to his secretary, a young sister in our congregation. The relationship had resulted in "some kissing".
  His tormented conscience had moved him to resign his position, but they now felt he had recovered enough
  spiritually to be used any way we saw fit.

  In the pre-c.o. visit meeting, the body of elders considered this brother's situation carefully. We knew him well.
  We also had known the young sister all her life. We chose not to act hastily and recommend this brother.

  Fast forward to our meeting with the circuit overseer. He noticed our recommendations did not include Brother N.
  He listened carefully to our reservations and said he respected our position. He made us aware of his private visit
  with Brother N. He found him "utterly remorseful to the point of tears." He suggested we reconsider our non-recommendation.
  One older brother spoke up, wondering how such a quick reappointment would effect the young girl and her mother. The CO
  quickly took that bull by the horns. He asked the older brother if he would be willing to approach the young
  sister and her mother with the question: "Would it stumble you if Brother N. was appointed as an elder again?
  (I think he already knew the answer to that question.) The CO wanted to discuss this again after the Sunday
  meeting.

  As you might suspect, in our elder's meeting late Sunday, this brother was recommended somewhat reluctantly. The skillful
  circuit overseer had set us up for it, even making it seem our decision.

  Three weeks later, the appointment letter came back from Brooklyn. Brother N. was appointed an elder, but also City Overseer.
  Some time later, he was also appointed Assembly Overseer and Chairman of the Hospital Liaison.

  tms
• 
  25

  A deflating talk with my brother re: anti-witnessing,,,,thoughts?

  by smellsgood in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  **edited to say, my brother is not a jw, never has been, nor have any of my family.

  i'm referring to jw's i don't know who came to the door finally (i posted about it a couple weeks ago in personal experiences) i was just talking to him about it because he got word of it and doesn't like the idea of it** .

  talking to my brother today, he doesn't like the idea of me getting involved debating with jw's (i've done this plenty, just not in person:).

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  TMS

  TMS, I have read this board for five years, read COC, read everything on freeminds, jwfacts, jwfiles, all the quotes on quotes when it was up....I have debated lifelong JW's for an entire year online, I may not know everything, and I certainly would never say I know what it is to be a JW, but I think I can say with utmost confidence, I am one hundred times informed as a practicing Witness about their religion. I am also extremely informed and knowledgeable about cults in general. It has been an area of intense interest and study for me.
  
  I know there are gaps because of my non-experience, this board has been the biggest help in that area. I can read others experiences, and I have. I think my greatest hope is my passion for it.
  
  I can understand why you would think that though ;)

  Well, SG, I certainly wish you well. You have the ammunition. But that arsenal will simply bounce off the average JW. I've had a few low-voltage conversations with JW's where they have bared their private concerns. It's such a delicate operation to reinforce that private doubt with your own experience. It is altogether too easy to provide more information than necessary. You may not be regarded as an apostate in the strictest sense, but a unloading a barrage of negatives will certainly spook the victim you're trying to free.

  Please keep us informed.

  tms
• 
  25

  A deflating talk with my brother re: anti-witnessing,,,,thoughts?

  by smellsgood in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  **edited to say, my brother is not a jw, never has been, nor have any of my family.

  i'm referring to jw's i don't know who came to the door finally (i posted about it a couple weeks ago in personal experiences) i was just talking to him about it because he got word of it and doesn't like the idea of it** .

  talking to my brother today, he doesn't like the idea of me getting involved debating with jw's (i've done this plenty, just not in person:).

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  TMS

  I've never been a JW

  A never-been could not possibly have the necessary knowledge to impact a JW's belief system. You would be in over your head. But you can only find that out for yourself.

  tms
• 
  25

  A deflating talk with my brother re: anti-witnessing,,,,thoughts?

  by smellsgood in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  **edited to say, my brother is not a jw, never has been, nor have any of my family.

  i'm referring to jw's i don't know who came to the door finally (i posted about it a couple weeks ago in personal experiences) i was just talking to him about it because he got word of it and doesn't like the idea of it** .

  talking to my brother today, he doesn't like the idea of me getting involved debating with jw's (i've done this plenty, just not in person:).

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  TMS

  SG,

  You're both right. No debater ever says: "You're right." It's not in human nature. JW's don't convert Catholics by destroying their beliefs biblically. Former JW's can't "win" a debate with current JW's. The talking points are irrelevant. It's the technique that doesn't work. Each JW has to reach a point in their life where they are "open" to seeing the reality of their belief system. They have to be hurt, overlooked, coerced, bullied, offended or stumbled to that point. Even at that point, the research has to be their own.

  But you speak of your "responsibility". Your post-JW successful, happy life fulfills that responsibility.

  tms
• 
  12

  A Dispassionate Short History of the JWs

  by Farkel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  fellow friends, folks, warriers and dubs,.

  this is a nice read.

  i apologize if this link has been posted before, as i've been busy with serial killing and such and haven't checked out the latest collected works and blubberings of minimus and other wise and erudite illuminaries who profer their wisdom here.

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  TMS

  Farkel,

  Since you left office, Minimus has served two terms as our president. It has not been JWD's finest hour.

  JW apologists like JCanon have had the run of the place.

  JWD took up a collection and sent Judah Ben Shroeder to Columbia Law School.

  Almost no dickheads have been called such.

  All posts are now text-messaged.

  I hope you brought your work boots.

  tms
• 
  61

  2007- Witness Meetings= Why can't women wear pants/trousers??

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when my mum went to her first meeting she was dressed to perfection, she wore nice ladies dress trouser/pants.

  the witness stuying with her told her it was "not apropriate" to wear this to the meeting...in 2006 i was in a congregation where a sister would put a skirt on over her pants she wore to work.

  it looked weird, but the pants ban still is in force 2007.

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  TMS

  This was a Watchtower flip-flop; allowing pantsuits for sisters at Kingdom Hall meetings in the summer of '75 and later in the same year reversing the policy. It not a dramatic a change as organ transplants or blood fractions but it illustrates the micro-control the GB has always had on JW lives. I guess the current posters are just too young to recall this historical change.

  tms
• 
  61

  2007- Witness Meetings= Why can't women wear pants/trousers??

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when my mum went to her first meeting she was dressed to perfection, she wore nice ladies dress trouser/pants.

  the witness stuying with her told her it was "not apropriate" to wear this to the meeting...in 2006 i was in a congregation where a sister would put a skirt on over her pants she wore to work.

  it looked weird, but the pants ban still is in force 2007.

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  TMS

  Many on the board will not recall this, but pantsuits were specifically mentioned as allowable dress for sisters in one of the talks at the '75 conventions in the United States. Post-convention many sisters went out and purchased very tasteful polyester suits for meetings. The very large congregation I attended at the time, Little Rock East, had a clear pantsuit majority. Here is a link to JWD topic from Jan. 02 discussing this subject: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/18802/1.ashx

  tms
• 
  15

  Rethinking Cain & Able, Favoritism, Parenting

  by TMS in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jehovah never had a father.

  he never knew the feeling of being slighted, less loved than one of his favored siblings.

  based on the above, was the first incident of sibling rivalry mishandled by jehovah?

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  TMS

  hibiscusfire, justahuman:

  Ur both bright young people, but uve gone way "beyond what is written" in ur Watchtoweresque spin on the Cain & Able account. Jehovah, the Great Communicator gave us no evidence of Cain's misbehavior prior to being humiliated for his blue ribbon vegetable offering. Actually, the Mosaic Law code which followed reinforced the notion that Jehovah just was a huge meat eater, especially of fatty pieces with blood dripping off the altar.

  Even if Cain had been a bad boy before his attempt to gift Jehovah with his best, do you think Jehovah handled the situation well? Do you think it would have hurt the almighty to have tabled his lust for meat fat temporarily and at least pretended to like the lad's offering? Actually, Jehovah, being allknowing, omnicient, knew that Cain would react the way he did, but blew it off because he was such a damn meat lover that he didn't care who got hurt in the process.

  As Judge Rutherford used to say: "Face the Facts." Jehovah God was not a good parent. He repeatedly showed favoritism on an individual and national basis. He favored Israel, but slaughtered the men, women and children of surrounding countries. He had incorrigible youth stoned by their parents. He pardoned murderer/ adulterer David, but killed his innocent baby. He's watched many tsunami waves kill thousands of his children without lifting an almighty finger.

  tms