Posts by BourneIdentity

519

Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

by UnshackleTheChains in

i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

you can't write this stuff.

right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

BourneIdentity

It’s pathetic how Tony can go on these tirades and act disgusted with people that put themselves in situations where they are too embarrassed or ashamed to preach the good news. Think of how many millions of JWs have felt the effects of his guilt trips, while he is no different than them. It is a classic case of do as I say, not as I do. Every time I hear him speak from now on, I’m gonna be thinking to myself, my my my, this guy needs to shut his pie hole and down some Scotch. When I start reflecting on his latest talks, he does seem to have slurred speech, and more nervous than usual. I wonder if his guilty conscience is starting to come to the surface. I think of how he was for the 2018 annual meeting, seemed very nervous to me.

519

Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

by UnshackleTheChains in

i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

you can't write this stuff.

right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

BourneIdentity

Like a few of the Tony Backers on this site have said, nothing wrong with buying a bunch of booze, we don't know if it was for his personal consumption or a big party. We don't know if it was purchased with donated funds or his own money. We also don't know if he was skipping a meeting, he could have been attending an afternoon one. We also don't know if he was trying to hide his purchase from fellow JWs, he might have had a reason to be in that location. Plus the trenchcoat and hat could have been his normal dress attire. Alot of this is pure speculation, which I do see.

The one positive quality I see in him is he did a hell of a job in an effort not to stumble any JWs, being he did it at a time most are in service or attending a meeting. He also chose a time when not many normal people would be buying alcohol. So give him credit for considering his brothers and sisters and not wanting to stumble them.

The negatives I see are this. He has made a vow of poverty, I don't know many people that are well off financially that could justify purchasing such an expensive bottle of booze. If I was limited to $200 per month or whatever it is, I sure wouldn't be blowing the majority on alcohol, that is, unless alcohol was my God and I loved and cherished it.

The other problem I see is he didn't informally witness to this man. The end is so close, we are at the very end of the last days! I'm sure Tony looked at him and knew in a very short time, that guy is gonna be toast. He had to see him as a blackened, charred, split open bratwurst, with a lotta dead bodies strewn about everywhere. And Tony didn't say anything to save him, he has blood on his hands for not witnesssing to him. Tony has totally lost any kind of freedom to speak from the platform and telling everyone how critical these days are and the urgent need to preach to everyone we encounter, when we can see he doesn't live by it himself.

For some that feel there was nothing wrong about Tony being in that liquor store filling up his cart, would they feel it would have been a good witness for Tony to preach to this man? Rather than Tony standing next to a literature cart, he's standing next to a liquor cart, that is fairly full of very premium expensive booze. He always encourages friends not to look ungodly or be in a position where we are embarrassed or ashamed to preach, and it looks like good old Tony did just that in this case. I'd feel less embarrassed if a brother in tight pants preached or a sister in tight spandex out for a run preached compared to Tony doing liquor cart witnessing.

15

Anyone know any former long time Bethelites or circuit overseers?

by BourneIdentity in

as you know, when you work your whole life, you pay into social security.

at retirement, you collect a paycheck from the government based on a percentage of income you drew for all those years.

do any of you know anyone that had been at bethel for decades and then were laid off?

BourneIdentity

Thanks for the download Atlantis. Point 6 says any income they earn while they are under that vow has to get turned over to the Order if it's in excess of their living expenses. I was not surprised to read about that one bit!

FedUpJW - I knew people would get a kick out of that question I asked, lol. Speaking of the money flow, do they ever, under any circumstances part with any money with the understanding they will not see it back? Like with hall builds, they hand out the money, but they eventually get it repaid by the congregation month to month. I heard with disaster relief, they help the brothers and sisters by paying for materials, while the labor is all volunteer based and free. But I did hear when insurance companies pay the homeowner, or FEMA writes them a check, it has to get turned over to the Organization. Is that accurate? Because there was a monthly broadcast within the last few months where a brother spoke about the projection of expenses for that year or the following year and how it was going to be so much higher than past years based on all the natural disasters. That tells me they must be paying out to help alot of people and not getting it back. Or is that just a lie to put pressure on everyone to send them even more money?

One of the things that woke me up was revolving around money. For years, it always bothered me how they would announce a deficit at the circuit assemblies, most of the time, several thousand dollars. By the end of the assembly, or maybe it was at the next assembly, they'd announce how thankful they were for everyones contributions and they approved all the surplus get sent to headquarters, which left the circuit account almost empty again. They would continue to do this, always putting the attenders in a bind to come up with the money, rather than giving them some breathing room to not have to keep paying and taking from the surplus. I thought, how deceitful, you announce on the stage how you have this deficit to pay for that weekends gathering, but then take the liberty to send all the extra money that was designed for that purpose, and send it all away. I then realized anywhere there is man and money, there is sure to be corruption and they can't be trusted. Obviously, it took more than that to wake me up, but that never sat right with me for years, even when I was PIMI.

15

Anyone know any former long time Bethelites or circuit overseers?

by BourneIdentity in

as you know, when you work your whole life, you pay into social security.

at retirement, you collect a paycheck from the government based on a percentage of income you drew for all those years.

do any of you know anyone that had been at bethel for decades and then were laid off?

BourneIdentity

As you know, when you work your whole life, you pay into social security. At retirement, you collect a paycheck from the government based on a percentage of income you drew for all those years. Do any of you know anyone that had been at Bethel for decades and then were laid off? Or a circuit overseer who served for decades and then was replaced with a younger one? How are these people taken care of? Being they aren't entitled to any money, or very little from the government, does the Organization have some type pension or retirement account for those people that faithfully served for decades?

I heard something on YouTube from a former Bethelite that when you go there, you sign a vow of poverty. I guess that's what the Governing Body can point to when these people are nearing the end of their life and complaining about no money to live on during retirement. I'm sure all these people that gave decades of service never imagined the system going on and were convinced they'd never see old age.

Knowing the Organization and how they never part with money unless they are getting it back with interest, I'm sure they throw the burden on the congregation members to take care of these people. If any of you know of any people and what they did to survive, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

18

Jehovah's Witnesses: A Coercive Organization?

by john.prestor in

so in sociology we divide organizations up into three categories or types, you got utilitarian, voluntary, and coercive.

utilitarian means people join to accomplish some purpose like selling food or making furniture, voluntary means they join up just for fun or to hang out with people like the freemasons or a lot of churches, and coercive means they don't really want to be there but they gotta because someone will punish them if they leave, so labor camps, armies, or prisons.. in a paper i wrote for a class a while back i argued that jehovah's witnesses should be seen as a coercive organization.

yeah, people join up and they do leave, nobody beats you up if you stop attending or preaching, nobody imprisons you, shoots your dog, kills your kids that kind of thing, and nobody makes you join up either.

BourneIdentity

This is about exactly the same thing I heard on that day.

https://youtu.be/HCCckKkgpxQ

18

Jehovah's Witnesses: A Coercive Organization?

by john.prestor in

so in sociology we divide organizations up into three categories or types, you got utilitarian, voluntary, and coercive.

utilitarian means people join to accomplish some purpose like selling food or making furniture, voluntary means they join up just for fun or to hang out with people like the freemasons or a lot of churches, and coercive means they don't really want to be there but they gotta because someone will punish them if they leave, so labor camps, armies, or prisons.. in a paper i wrote for a class a while back i argued that jehovah's witnesses should be seen as a coercive organization.

yeah, people join up and they do leave, nobody beats you up if you stop attending or preaching, nobody imprisons you, shoots your dog, kills your kids that kind of thing, and nobody makes you join up either.

BourneIdentity

I think it was back in 2013 when we had the annual meeting and a bunch of congregations were tied in listening to all the talks live. It was the one where we received the new silver Bibles.

That was the one Tony Morris went off on brothers wearing tight pants and how homosexuals love to see them wearing them, not the sisters.

He also chastised the sisters that were jogging in the neighborhoods wearing spanx. He said that was totally inappropriate for a Christian. No Tony, it would be inappropriate to wear spanx to a meeting, it is appropriate when you are exercising.

It was then and there I realized this guy is nuts and he wants to control every aspect of a persons life, no different than the Scribes and Pharisees did back in Jesus day. I can’t imagine how much screaming Jesus would aim at the Governing Body.

I was thinking if I was one of the brothers sitting through that in tailor fit pants, I think it might have been the last meeting I’d ever attend with him coming off like such an asshole. Nothing loving or appealing of that delivery. I think he really envies men and women that have good figures. He’s probably pissed he’s fat or feels guilty that he gets turned on by these nice figures and then feels the need to take it out on them.

18

Jehovah's Witnesses: A Coercive Organization?

by john.prestor in

so in sociology we divide organizations up into three categories or types, you got utilitarian, voluntary, and coercive.

utilitarian means people join to accomplish some purpose like selling food or making furniture, voluntary means they join up just for fun or to hang out with people like the freemasons or a lot of churches, and coercive means they don't really want to be there but they gotta because someone will punish them if they leave, so labor camps, armies, or prisons.. in a paper i wrote for a class a while back i argued that jehovah's witnesses should be seen as a coercive organization.

yeah, people join up and they do leave, nobody beats you up if you stop attending or preaching, nobody imprisons you, shoots your dog, kills your kids that kind of thing, and nobody makes you join up either.

BourneIdentity

It’s all fear mongering. Once you realize it isn’t the truth, it all goes in one ear and out the other. Like listening to a dog with all bark and no bite. Being PIMO and listening to it is quite comical, but I do feel sorry for the ones that truly believe it and are driven to serve the Organization out of fear. Let’s not kid ourselves, everything is done out of fear, not love. People are not preaching because they love their neighbor, they are preaching to save their own skin and appear righteous to the rest of the congregation.

When some have asked why I don’t seem worried about not doing all the things I’m supposed to be doing, I act very relaxed and careless about it. I say well, if Jehovah wants to murder me because I’m not good enough, that’s fine with me, it is what it is. I will not be bothered about stressing over things, especially since we’ve been hearing it’s coming for what, 140 years. That usually shuts them up and they don’t know what to say or how to help me so I can get all scared and be moved to action.

9

Would this scenario make a totally devout JW renounce their faith?

by BourneIdentity in

we’ve all heard the stories of someone pointing a gun at a jw telling them to renounce their faith or die.

some live to tell about it, others don’t.

but what makes it seem easier to stomach is it just involves that person, no one else.

BourneIdentity

The reason I bring this up is due to Russia labeling them as extremists. I automatically think of the crazy suicide bombers and say JWs would never do that! But in this scenario, would they?

9

Would this scenario make a totally devout JW renounce their faith?

by BourneIdentity in

we’ve all heard the stories of someone pointing a gun at a jw telling them to renounce their faith or die.

some live to tell about it, others don’t.

but what makes it seem easier to stomach is it just involves that person, no one else.

BourneIdentity

We’ve all heard the stories of someone pointing a gun at a JW telling them to renounce their faith or die. Some live to tell about it, others don’t. But what makes it seem easier to stomach is it just involves that person, no one else. What would a devout JW do in this situation?

A JW finds themselves thrown out of a van with a mask on, you know, typical Hollywood stuff. After they hear the van zoom off, they pull the mask off. They see they are in the middle of a city square. They look down and there are explosives attached to them, the countdown is at 60 seconds and a button next to it. A note reads, renounce your faith and hit the button, no one gets hurt. Don’t push the button and when the clock hits 0, many lives will be lost. What does that person do? Do they say a quick prayer asking for forgiveness and then renounce or blow everyone to bits?

16

JWs - Followers of Men - 100% Proof

by BourneIdentity in

for those that are convinced they are not following man, but jehovah, this example is 100% proof they follow men.

if they twist this to say they don't follow man, well, there is no hope for them.. the bible is very clear to honor your father and mother, it was and is so important, it's listed as one of the 10 commandments.

when that parent leaves the truth, either due to disassociation or being disfellowshipped, the child shuns them for life.

BourneIdentity

To go along with Atlantis link, if I were to speak up and say how their rules on disfellowshipping and shunning parents is wrong, I'd be disfellowshipped. Even though it's 100% truth and verified from the Bible, that wouldn't matter to them. Then down the road if they received "New Light" and changed their stance, I'd still be disfellowshipped and shunned. Then I'd have to come crawling back begging for them to accept me back and how sorry I was for not following something not Bible based and sacrificing unity in the congregation, ick!

The Watchtower is a giant bully and there isn't much we can do against it. If you disassociate, you lose everything. Fading is about all you can do, but in some cases, alot have to fake it and go through the motions to please their family.

My advice to any of those people in that situation who could be reading this is don't donate any of your money to them. My second tip is don't trust anything they say, always be critical of what they are saying, but just don't speak up and tip anyone off you are PIMO. As I said earlier, I get really nervous when they say to have total trust in them even if something is said doesn't sound logical from a human standpoint. They are not prophets and are not infallible, they've admitted that orally in parts and in print.

I think of Dennis Christensen, he's the one that was recently imprisoned for 6 years in Russia. What a waste, all for the Organization. I know people in other countries that can't preach, it's under ban. So they discreetly might strike up a conversation informally as they are walking in a park or some other setting, they aren't like this Dennis. He knew it was all banned and they all met at a Kingdom Hall anyways, dumb, dumb, dumb. As a family head, his obligation was to care for his family. Now his wife has no head to support her for 6 years, as the Scriptures say, now he is worse than a person without faith because he isn't providing. What's he going to do when he gets released? Be stubborn and continue meetings and service and get thrown back in? Like I said people, just be smart and don't put yourself in a bad situation, because this Organization would love to sacrifice you and post it on their JW News section.