BourneIdentity

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Posts by BourneIdentity

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  519

  Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

  you can't write this stuff.

  right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

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  BourneIdentity

  MMM

  Thanks for clarifying. I mean no harm or ill will, it’s just great to discuss things with differing opinions and not get taken into a back room for it. :-)
• 
  519

  Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

  you can't write this stuff.

  right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

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  BourneIdentity

  You know what blows my mind in all of this? All of the apostates, PIMOs, inactive ones, disfellowshipped, disassociated or even ones that have never been a JW on this discussion, are referencing scriptures and articles from the Watchtowers showing how what Tony did wasn't right. Then the WT apologists, at least that's what they appear to be, are leaning more towards their own human reasonings to defend him, rather than sticking to God's Word and the Watchtower. Oh the irony!! Be warned, when you have to close the Bible and the WTs and use your own reasoning, you have abandoned your faith! If you have abandoned your faith, then why defend Big Tony? Are you close buddies with him?
  
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  25

  I think I made up my mind

  by paradiseseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a month ago i travelled alone to italy for three days and i had the opportunity to visit the beautiful florence and re-visit many parts of rome.. but most importantly, i had the opportunity to stay alone and think about my situation and to make up my mind.. i've had very clear for almost 5 years that i will eventually leave the religion, but i couldn't decide when.. but now i know : i will leave on april 20th, the day after the memorial.. that day i will talk to my parents (this is by far the hardest thing to do) and soon afterwards i will talk to my closest friends, then i will send my disassociation letter.

  i know that i will let them down, i will hurt them, most probably some of them will cry... but i need to live coherently for the first time in my life.

  i'm sure that living in this contradiction is affecting and will affect my mental health and it's time for me to help myself instead of others.

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  BourneIdentity

  I've had to talk one of my parents “off the ledge” on several occasions when they wanted to disassociate. We would meet up for lunch or dinner and I would explain the consequences as clearly as I could to them. I'm glad they always listened and haven't done it yet! It's paid off, because more and more in my family are waking up, there aren't many left before we are all of the same mindset. I understand though, you get emotional and upset and want to stick it to the Org. Once the dust settles though, the reality of it all sets in and it’s tough times.

  
  

  I'm willing to guess that out of the 8.6 million active publishers, millions of those are checked out and simply just turning in time for family worship. Once you stop believing, it makes it almost impossible to go door to door. You stop giving talks, commenting, preaching and just show up at a meeting now and then. I went to a meeting last week and really enjoyed the conversation with others. There are some very genuine, great friends there. I think I can really enjoy myself there because I don't believe in all the doom and gloom crap they constantly speak of. By going with a fade, you sort of get the best of both worlds.
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  25

  I think I made up my mind

  by paradiseseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a month ago i travelled alone to italy for three days and i had the opportunity to visit the beautiful florence and re-visit many parts of rome.. but most importantly, i had the opportunity to stay alone and think about my situation and to make up my mind.. i've had very clear for almost 5 years that i will eventually leave the religion, but i couldn't decide when.. but now i know : i will leave on april 20th, the day after the memorial.. that day i will talk to my parents (this is by far the hardest thing to do) and soon afterwards i will talk to my closest friends, then i will send my disassociation letter.

  i know that i will let them down, i will hurt them, most probably some of them will cry... but i need to live coherently for the first time in my life.

  i'm sure that living in this contradiction is affecting and will affect my mental health and it's time for me to help myself instead of others.

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  BourneIdentity

  I also agree with Giordano, you will be punishing your parents and your loved ones. There are dozens of victims when someone is disfellowshipped or disassociated, not just that person. The Organization acts like the family members that shun should just keep happily serving Jehovah while they can have no contact with their loved ones, and act is if having no natural affection is what Jehovah wants.

  
  

  You have to realize your parents don't deserve to be punished. Sure, it's easy to say they can make a conscious choice to talk to you. But realize how strong their beliefs are. Think of how strong a suicide bombers belief is that they are doing the right thing for God. It's no different with your parents and loved ones, it is really sad when you think about it. Take the time to get away from all the BS at the Kingdom Hall, decompress, destress and get your sanity back. You will be amazed at how much happier you become when you distance yourself from that toxic environment.
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  25

  I think I made up my mind

  by paradiseseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a month ago i travelled alone to italy for three days and i had the opportunity to visit the beautiful florence and re-visit many parts of rome.. but most importantly, i had the opportunity to stay alone and think about my situation and to make up my mind.. i've had very clear for almost 5 years that i will eventually leave the religion, but i couldn't decide when.. but now i know : i will leave on april 20th, the day after the memorial.. that day i will talk to my parents (this is by far the hardest thing to do) and soon afterwards i will talk to my closest friends, then i will send my disassociation letter.

  i know that i will let them down, i will hurt them, most probably some of them will cry... but i need to live coherently for the first time in my life.

  i'm sure that living in this contradiction is affecting and will affect my mental health and it's time for me to help myself instead of others.

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  BourneIdentity

  paradiseseeker

  
  

  I know you've thought about this for 5 years, but sending in a disassociation letter has extreme consequences, which I'm sure you already know.

  
  

  How many friends and relatives do you have outside of the religion? If you have next to no one, your world will be flipped upside down.

  
  

  I would suggest a fade, just stop going. If anyone asks, you are discouraged, depressed, have doubts, whatever you think. There are benefits of staying in. You can maintain contact with loved ones and hope to wake them up as well. It's a slow, drawn out process, but can work after time. It's easy to leave the religion by yourself, but most want to take their families with them. Watchtower holds a gun to your head, leave the faith and lose your family. Stay and be miserable to keep your family.

  
  

  Before you make any haste decision, just picture all the JWs being spiritually strong and loyal to the Organization and having zero contact with you. Could you deal with that and move on? If not, it might be better to wait a little longer, there is no harm in waiting.
• 
  519

  Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

  you can't write this stuff.

  right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

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  BourneIdentity

  Incognigo Montoya

  
  

  You are spot on. Every JW is hyper aware of their every action and how it will be perceived by others. And we have to assume that the observer, whether JW or worldly person, will always expect the worst.
• 
  519

  Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

  you can't write this stuff.

  right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

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  BourneIdentity

  MMM

  
  

  I've looked back at my responses as well as all the others, and I'm not sure why you are failing to reason on how easy it is to see this. You are a troll, it's the only explanation.

  
  

  I'm going to keep this really simple. Tony is a victim of the culture he has had a strong hand in creating and enforcing in the JW Org. He's a victim of his own doing and I find a great deal of pleasure in that. It's everyones obligation to think the worst in any given situation. They take it to the elders and then the elders tell the flock that we want to always think the best of the friends, but they will look into it. Every active JW plays a role in doing this to keep the congregation as clean as can be from any wrongdoing. If this is the worst case scenario and Tony is a raging alcoholic, then the apostates played a part in helping to clean up God's Organization. That is the whole purpose of the culture Big Tony created. It's a must to follow if we want to bring praise to Jehovah and his earthly Organization. So as much as apostates are mentally diseased and in oppostion to Jehovah and his Organization, it appears alot of us by being in this forum and discussing it, still are looking out for it and have its best interests in mind to remove the filth from it, HAHAHA.
• 
  519

  Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

  you can't write this stuff.

  right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

  1. 
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• 

  BourneIdentity

  For those that don't understand what all the fuss is about, I'm going to give you a brief inside look at what the culture is like today in the JW Organization. Many of you have been out for years or even decades. The Organization is alot different today than what it was back then. Or maybe you will read it and say it was exactly the same back in the 70s and 80s, I'd like to hear your comments.

  
  

  Suppose I get a $500 bonus from my employer and I decide it's a great time to replenish my home bar. It's going to require me to buy an assortment of different bottles and I'm estimating it will come to possibly $200-$250. So I waltz into the liquor store, load up a shopping cart and head to the check out. A brother walks in just as I'm putting it all on the conveyor belt.

  
  

  My instant thought is "oh shit, this doesn't look good. I've done nothing wrong at all, but what does he think? I have to make this right before I leave."

  
  

  I finish paying for my booze and hang outside the entrance till this brother walks out. I have a little small talk with him and he kiddingly brings up that I'm buying the whole store out. I laugh and then say how I received my bonus and figured it would be a great time to use that surplus of money to replenish my bar. He agrees, what a great idea and said he is jealous and asks when he will get an invite over to enjoy a few drinks. We finish up, shake hands, say our goodbyes, and that is behind me, no issue at all.

  
  

  Fast forward a few days. I'm at a meeting and an elder pulls me aside and says he'd like to talk to me in the back room. I walk back there and 2 elders are sitting at the table with their Bibles and iPads out. They go on to tell me they've heard about my liquor purchase. I tell them the whole story and think it's ironic I have to explain myself to them, feels like I'm being interrogated by the Police. After they tell me they are not accusing me of over drinking, they share some scriptures about stumbling others and how we need to lovingly consider the friends. I'm just sitting there in shock listening to it all wondering how it came to this.

  
  

  I leave and then text the brother that saw me that day and ask if he went to the elders. He told me no. He then explains he was out in the field ministry and passed the liquor store and then brought up the funny story to the car group about me buying out the store. The group laughed about it, but then it spread like wildfire through the whole congregation, thus the elders heard about it and had to address it.

  
  

  Prior to the next meeting, I text both of the elders if I could have a word with them before the start of the meeting. We go in the back room and I ask if there shouldn't be a Local Needs talk on gossip, because the whole congregation needs to hear it. They proceed to tell me all of them are just so loving and care about me, that some were concerned. I asked if they were concerned, why didn't they follow the Bible and approach me with that loving concern? They can't answer that, but then ultimately say none of this would have happened if I would have had the foresight to think of my brothers and sisters before I bought all that booze.

  
  

  They made me realize I had dropped my guard that day, I failed to think "how will this look?" and "what will people think?" I didn't sin, but I did commit a sin in the JW Organization by failing to ask myself these questions. The fault isn't the congregations and their gossip, it's all my fault for doing something that could stumble others.

  
  

  I then feel awful and try to contemplate what I could have done to avoid this. It wasn't an option to just not get the booze, because I have a right to do that and it's not wrong. I asked them what they would have done. They tell me "you have a lot of co-workers that drink right? Couldn't you have just given them the money to get it all on their next alcohol run?" The 2nd elder says "You could have wore a baseball cap and put on one of those glasses that have the fake nose and mustache attached!" We all laugh about that, but I'm thinking that isn't a bad idea. Next time I just might have to wear a baseball cap, put on a fake mustache and maybe even put in contact lens that change the color of my eyes, that would hopefully be enough to get away with it and not be noticed.

  
  

  I kid you not, this is 100% exactly what the culture is like day in and day out when you are in the JW Organization. They say Jehovah is the most important thing, or the ministry, Kingdom, Bible, you could name many things, but the number one thing has always been and will always be appearances. People always say God sees all, he is watching, or what would Jesus do? But as a JW, the number one thing is "How does this look and what will people think?". And we have to assume people are always thinking the worst, always.

  
  

  Tony has played a very strong role in creating this culture over the years, so I find it funny how he's a victim of it!
• 
  519

  Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

  you can't write this stuff.

  right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

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  BourneIdentity

  Jehalapeno,

  That is precisely the point in this whole thing! There is nothing “wrong” with what Tony did and it’s causing this huge buzz and everyone is talking and analyzing it. We are simply all showing Tony what he’s done to all of us. He’s made it impossible to live our lives. I mean, my God, he criticizes women because they jog with spandex on saying it’s not what a Christian should be wearing when working out.

  Tony rarely leaves the Warwick compound and this came up. Imagine the rank and file members who live in this world 24/7, imagine how they have to navigate these scenarios around the clock “how will this look” and “what will people think”.
• 
  519

  Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

  you can't write this stuff.

  right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

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  3. 
• 

  BourneIdentity

  One thing Tony has ingrained in all of us over the years of his ridiculous talks is to be hyper aware at all times how things look. It does not matter at all if we aren’t engaging in any wrongdoing, what matters is appearances and how things look to fellow JWs as well as worldly people.

  Some examples might include walking out of a house one morning with a person of the opposite sex. This gives the impression to an observer you spent the night together and most likely had sexual relations. Even if you didn’t, the perception by an onlooker is you did. Another might be walking with some co-workers on a lunch break while they all are smoking and you are not. To an observer, they assume you are smoking when you are walking near all the puffs of smoke being exhaled. Or having a business meeting at an eating establishment with someone of the opposite sex. This gives observers ideas that you are having a marital affair or in a relationship with a worldly person.
  

  I’m only going to list these few, but for any of us that have been in the religion for decades, we all know we’ve been counseled by the elders on numerous occasions of past things we did, even though nothing was wrong with it, but how it might have been perceived by others. It creates a state of paranoia in all JWs that it’s not good enough to be free of wrongdoing, but second guessing what others are thinking in every scenario that might present itself. This causes a huge amount of stress and anxiety in a person.

  I’m glad Tony has now experienced what a typical rank and file member has to deal with every single day due to his crazy demands. He’s no different than the Pharisees that created all the extra laws that made it a burden for people to serve God.

  If the pope or some other popular religious leader like Joel Osteen was filmed doing the same thing that Tony was, you can damn well guarantee judgmental Tony would give his 2 cents from the platform how hypocritical these men are and any religion they represent. But oh no, anytime a higher ranking JW is involved, it’s completely fine and we should think the best of our dear brothers! I think of how so many elders over the years have criticized the Catholics for child molestation, but now when JWs are plastered in the news everywhere about it, they say it’s all apostate lies or even if true, it doesn’t make them a false religion and Jehovah is still with them. They are very delusional people.

  I’ve said it for years that Tony has NPD, I’m sure he has PTSD as well from Vietnam. Check out these symptoms of NPD and look at numbers 3 and 4, they fit Tony to a T in regard to these demands he puts upon the rank and file members.

  https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mindbodygreen.com/articles/14-signs-of-narcissism