BourneIdentity
JoinedPosts by BourneIdentity
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15
Anyone know any former long time Bethelites or circuit overseers?
by BourneIdentity inas you know, when you work your whole life, you pay into social security.
at retirement, you collect a paycheck from the government based on a percentage of income you drew for all those years.
do any of you know anyone that had been at bethel for decades and then were laid off?
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BourneIdentity
Thanks for the download Atlantis. Point 6 says any income they earn while they are under that vow has to get turned over to the Order if it's in excess of their living expenses. I was not surprised to read about that one bit!FedUpJW - I knew people would get a kick out of that question I asked, lol. Speaking of the money flow, do they ever, under any circumstances part with any money with the understanding they will not see it back? Like with hall builds, they hand out the money, but they eventually get it repaid by the congregation month to month. I heard with disaster relief, they help the brothers and sisters by paying for materials, while the labor is all volunteer based and free. But I did hear when insurance companies pay the homeowner, or FEMA writes them a check, it has to get turned over to the Organization. Is that accurate? Because there was a monthly broadcast within the last few months where a brother spoke about the projection of expenses for that year or the following year and how it was going to be so much higher than past years based on all the natural disasters. That tells me they must be paying out to help alot of people and not getting it back. Or is that just a lie to put pressure on everyone to send them even more money?One of the things that woke me up was revolving around money. For years, it always bothered me how they would announce a deficit at the circuit assemblies, most of the time, several thousand dollars. By the end of the assembly, or maybe it was at the next assembly, they'd announce how thankful they were for everyones contributions and they approved all the surplus get sent to headquarters, which left the circuit account almost empty again. They would continue to do this, always putting the attenders in a bind to come up with the money, rather than giving them some breathing room to not have to keep paying and taking from the surplus. I thought, how deceitful, you announce on the stage how you have this deficit to pay for that weekends gathering, but then take the liberty to send all the extra money that was designed for that purpose, and send it all away. I then realized anywhere there is man and money, there is sure to be corruption and they can't be trusted. Obviously, it took more than that to wake me up, but that never sat right with me for years, even when I was PIMI. -
15
Anyone know any former long time Bethelites or circuit overseers?
by BourneIdentity inas you know, when you work your whole life, you pay into social security.
at retirement, you collect a paycheck from the government based on a percentage of income you drew for all those years.
do any of you know anyone that had been at bethel for decades and then were laid off?
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BourneIdentity
As you know, when you work your whole life, you pay into social security. At retirement, you collect a paycheck from the government based on a percentage of income you drew for all those years. Do any of you know anyone that had been at Bethel for decades and then were laid off? Or a circuit overseer who served for decades and then was replaced with a younger one? How are these people taken care of? Being they aren't entitled to any money, or very little from the government, does the Organization have some type pension or retirement account for those people that faithfully served for decades?
I heard something on YouTube from a former Bethelite that when you go there, you sign a vow of poverty. I guess that's what the Governing Body can point to when these people are nearing the end of their life and complaining about no money to live on during retirement. I'm sure all these people that gave decades of service never imagined the system going on and were convinced they'd never see old age.
Knowing the Organization and how they never part with money unless they are getting it back with interest, I'm sure they throw the burden on the congregation members to take care of these people. If any of you know of any people and what they did to survive, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
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18
Jehovah's Witnesses: A Coercive Organization?
by john.prestor inso in sociology we divide organizations up into three categories or types, you got utilitarian, voluntary, and coercive.
utilitarian means people join to accomplish some purpose like selling food or making furniture, voluntary means they join up just for fun or to hang out with people like the freemasons or a lot of churches, and coercive means they don't really want to be there but they gotta because someone will punish them if they leave, so labor camps, armies, or prisons.. in a paper i wrote for a class a while back i argued that jehovah's witnesses should be seen as a coercive organization.
yeah, people join up and they do leave, nobody beats you up if you stop attending or preaching, nobody imprisons you, shoots your dog, kills your kids that kind of thing, and nobody makes you join up either.
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BourneIdentity
This is about exactly the same thing I heard on that day.
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18
Jehovah's Witnesses: A Coercive Organization?
by john.prestor inso in sociology we divide organizations up into three categories or types, you got utilitarian, voluntary, and coercive.
utilitarian means people join to accomplish some purpose like selling food or making furniture, voluntary means they join up just for fun or to hang out with people like the freemasons or a lot of churches, and coercive means they don't really want to be there but they gotta because someone will punish them if they leave, so labor camps, armies, or prisons.. in a paper i wrote for a class a while back i argued that jehovah's witnesses should be seen as a coercive organization.
yeah, people join up and they do leave, nobody beats you up if you stop attending or preaching, nobody imprisons you, shoots your dog, kills your kids that kind of thing, and nobody makes you join up either.
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BourneIdentity
I think it was back in 2013 when we had the annual meeting and a bunch of congregations were tied in listening to all the talks live. It was the one where we received the new silver Bibles.
That was the one Tony Morris went off on brothers wearing tight pants and how homosexuals love to see them wearing them, not the sisters.
He also chastised the sisters that were jogging in the neighborhoods wearing spanx. He said that was totally inappropriate for a Christian. No Tony, it would be inappropriate to wear spanx to a meeting, it is appropriate when you are exercising.
It was then and there I realized this guy is nuts and he wants to control every aspect of a persons life, no different than the Scribes and Pharisees did back in Jesus day. I can’t imagine how much screaming Jesus would aim at the Governing Body.
I was thinking if I was one of the brothers sitting through that in tailor fit pants, I think it might have been the last meeting I’d ever attend with him coming off like such an asshole. Nothing loving or appealing of that delivery. I think he really envies men and women that have good figures. He’s probably pissed he’s fat or feels guilty that he gets turned on by these nice figures and then feels the need to take it out on them.
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18
Jehovah's Witnesses: A Coercive Organization?
by john.prestor inso in sociology we divide organizations up into three categories or types, you got utilitarian, voluntary, and coercive.
utilitarian means people join to accomplish some purpose like selling food or making furniture, voluntary means they join up just for fun or to hang out with people like the freemasons or a lot of churches, and coercive means they don't really want to be there but they gotta because someone will punish them if they leave, so labor camps, armies, or prisons.. in a paper i wrote for a class a while back i argued that jehovah's witnesses should be seen as a coercive organization.
yeah, people join up and they do leave, nobody beats you up if you stop attending or preaching, nobody imprisons you, shoots your dog, kills your kids that kind of thing, and nobody makes you join up either.
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BourneIdentity
It’s all fear mongering. Once you realize it isn’t the truth, it all goes in one ear and out the other. Like listening to a dog with all bark and no bite. Being PIMO and listening to it is quite comical, but I do feel sorry for the ones that truly believe it and are driven to serve the Organization out of fear. Let’s not kid ourselves, everything is done out of fear, not love. People are not preaching because they love their neighbor, they are preaching to save their own skin and appear righteous to the rest of the congregation.
When some have asked why I don’t seem worried about not doing all the things I’m supposed to be doing, I act very relaxed and careless about it. I say well, if Jehovah wants to murder me because I’m not good enough, that’s fine with me, it is what it is. I will not be bothered about stressing over things, especially since we’ve been hearing it’s coming for what, 140 years. That usually shuts them up and they don’t know what to say or how to help me so I can get all scared and be moved to action.
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9
Would this scenario make a totally devout JW renounce their faith?
by BourneIdentity inwe’ve all heard the stories of someone pointing a gun at a jw telling them to renounce their faith or die.
some live to tell about it, others don’t.
but what makes it seem easier to stomach is it just involves that person, no one else.
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BourneIdentity
The reason I bring this up is due to Russia labeling them as extremists. I automatically think of the crazy suicide bombers and say JWs would never do that! But in this scenario, would they?
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9
Would this scenario make a totally devout JW renounce their faith?
by BourneIdentity inwe’ve all heard the stories of someone pointing a gun at a jw telling them to renounce their faith or die.
some live to tell about it, others don’t.
but what makes it seem easier to stomach is it just involves that person, no one else.
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BourneIdentity
We’ve all heard the stories of someone pointing a gun at a JW telling them to renounce their faith or die. Some live to tell about it, others don’t. But what makes it seem easier to stomach is it just involves that person, no one else. What would a devout JW do in this situation?
A JW finds themselves thrown out of a van with a mask on, you know, typical Hollywood stuff. After they hear the van zoom off, they pull the mask off. They see they are in the middle of a city square. They look down and there are explosives attached to them, the countdown is at 60 seconds and a button next to it. A note reads, renounce your faith and hit the button, no one gets hurt. Don’t push the button and when the clock hits 0, many lives will be lost. What does that person do? Do they say a quick prayer asking for forgiveness and then renounce or blow everyone to bits?
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16
JWs - Followers of Men - 100% Proof
by BourneIdentity infor those that are convinced they are not following man, but jehovah, this example is 100% proof they follow men.
if they twist this to say they don't follow man, well, there is no hope for them.. the bible is very clear to honor your father and mother, it was and is so important, it's listed as one of the 10 commandments.
when that parent leaves the truth, either due to disassociation or being disfellowshipped, the child shuns them for life.
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BourneIdentity
To go along with Atlantis link, if I were to speak up and say how their rules on disfellowshipping and shunning parents is wrong, I'd be disfellowshipped. Even though it's 100% truth and verified from the Bible, that wouldn't matter to them. Then down the road if they received "New Light" and changed their stance, I'd still be disfellowshipped and shunned. Then I'd have to come crawling back begging for them to accept me back and how sorry I was for not following something not Bible based and sacrificing unity in the congregation, ick!The Watchtower is a giant bully and there isn't much we can do against it. If you disassociate, you lose everything. Fading is about all you can do, but in some cases, alot have to fake it and go through the motions to please their family.My advice to any of those people in that situation who could be reading this is don't donate any of your money to them. My second tip is don't trust anything they say, always be critical of what they are saying, but just don't speak up and tip anyone off you are PIMO. As I said earlier, I get really nervous when they say to have total trust in them even if something is said doesn't sound logical from a human standpoint. They are not prophets and are not infallible, they've admitted that orally in parts and in print.I think of Dennis Christensen, he's the one that was recently imprisoned for 6 years in Russia. What a waste, all for the Organization. I know people in other countries that can't preach, it's under ban. So they discreetly might strike up a conversation informally as they are walking in a park or some other setting, they aren't like this Dennis. He knew it was all banned and they all met at a Kingdom Hall anyways, dumb, dumb, dumb. As a family head, his obligation was to care for his family. Now his wife has no head to support her for 6 years, as the Scriptures say, now he is worse than a person without faith because he isn't providing. What's he going to do when he gets released? Be stubborn and continue meetings and service and get thrown back in? Like I said people, just be smart and don't put yourself in a bad situation, because this Organization would love to sacrifice you and post it on their JW News section. -
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JWs - Followers of Men - 100% Proof
by BourneIdentity infor those that are convinced they are not following man, but jehovah, this example is 100% proof they follow men.
if they twist this to say they don't follow man, well, there is no hope for them.. the bible is very clear to honor your father and mother, it was and is so important, it's listed as one of the 10 commandments.
when that parent leaves the truth, either due to disassociation or being disfellowshipped, the child shuns them for life.
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BourneIdentity
Thanks for the read Atlantis. Never read it before, but I have heard elders say on occasion unity is the number one thing. Pretty crazy they call themselves “The Truth.”
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JWs - Followers of Men - 100% Proof
by BourneIdentity infor those that are convinced they are not following man, but jehovah, this example is 100% proof they follow men.
if they twist this to say they don't follow man, well, there is no hope for them.. the bible is very clear to honor your father and mother, it was and is so important, it's listed as one of the 10 commandments.
when that parent leaves the truth, either due to disassociation or being disfellowshipped, the child shuns them for life.
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BourneIdentity
Here it is neat blue dog,
Watch from 6:10-7:00
https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/StudioMonthly2018/pub-jwb_201808_1_VIDEO