Posts by trevor

9

I used to get so very angry...

by SixofNine in

jw
friends

http://www.witnessesonline.com/ubb/forum18/html/000009-2.html.

http://www.witnessesonline.com/ubb/forum1/html/000068.html.

http://www.witnessesonline.com/ubb/forum1/html/000072.html.

trevor

Hi amicus,

Firstly thanks for you remarks and the quote under the subject 'Jesus second coming'it was very good.

.........

I wanted to second your last paragraph above. I used to be angry with all JWS but now my anger has faded. I feel some towards the WT society it's self but great pity for most of it's confused members.

My father is a die hard elder and my younger brother is a layed back elder. He still cleans windows at 41 and lives in a tiny terrace. There is nothing wrong with that in it'self if it is a lfestyle choise but he is waiting for the end and has joked about having my house when I have 'gone' at Armageddon. We have remained friends but I feel graet saddness for him and his wasted talent. Like so many others he has been tricked.

trevor

47

JW Dictionary

by thinker in

jw
friends

warning !.

the following "dictionary" may be very discomforting to true believers of jehovah's organization.

if you ask too many questions about these things you are told " jehovah will make it all clear in time.

trevor

The above posts are all very good. I particularly appreciated the definitions of WT buzz words from Lark and the thinker - BRILLIANT!

TREVOR

32

Jesus second coming in the first century

by Jr in

this discussion will be quite extensive.

so, i have broken it up in to subtopics.

it will be shared by myself and associates in the faith.

trevor

Hello Larc,

Thanks for your comments and support - also Wendy and eyes open.

You asked me to look at your posting on 'are you ex-Jehovah's Witnesses Christian?' It was very good and I was surprised at the amount of support that followed. I agree with your thinking on many things including the flood. Noah would have had to take millions of creatures into the ark. Most fish live in either fresh or salt water. If the whole world was flooded then the mixed water would kill most kinds of fish. Like a lot of the Bible, it doesn't add up.

You mentioned evolution. The type of evolution portrayed by the Watchtower is a godless unintelligent theory. However the idea of a living God that permeates every living thing and intelligently works within the limits of each creature's habitat, over thousands of years, to develop and improve each creature, is a whole different concept. What do people think the life in us is? It is the creator's intelligent force which belongs to him. It never rests, loses patience, or gives up. It is fully invested in us and all living things. As has been said many times - if you want to see God just walk around a garden.

I believe that man has created a god in his own image. A god that needs to rest after working, is supposed to have a temper, feel regret, be vain, demanding and ready to kill any who resist. Having painted him as a jealous vengeful god, we are then told he needs a throne to sit on, he needs the earth as a footstool. He has hands, eyes and is even given internal organs 'Oh the writhing of my bowels and the throbbing of my heart! I cannot keep silence.'(Jeremiah 4:19) Then he has a son who wants to prove himself, so he can be king and sit on this imaginary throne. He adopts a nation of people, calls them his wife and possession to time indefinite and then arranges for them to be sold into slavery, so that he can rescue them and claim to be their redeemer. How very crooked and dishonest. When they don't show enough appreciation he has them smashed, torn up, crushed and destroyed.

I believe it is an insult to the creator of this beautiful universe to ascribe to him the thoughts of ambitious and cruel men. Many of the horrific biblical texts, such as Jeremiah, reflect the way that man has turned this awe-inspiring planet into a battlefield which shows no respect for human life. God has played no part in these atrocities. He is not a monster who solves problems with genocide. Men in power resort to the destruction of life - the creator creates.

As you said in your posting Lark, religion has used fear to control people for thousands of years. The Judeo-Christian concept is based on fear, bloodshed and revenge culminating in the holocaust of Armageddon. Until we can free our minds of such fear we will never come to know the purity of the creator's love and our real place in his canvass of creation.

We are warned not to have an open mind in case spurious and evil thoughts enter. If these same people understood the power of the living God, they would realize that through the silence of quiet meditation, opening our mind is the first step to God entering our heart. The creator is not separated from us, he permeates every living thing and personally offers us total understanding of him and joy in the knowing of him and his ongoing creative work. Any that are afraid of him have come to know a false god invented by man for his own political ends.

There are some some very worthy and spiritual texts in the Bible written by men of vision but that doesn't mean that all the writers have accurately described God.
I realize that many people on this site believe that my view of the Bible is blasphemous and the work of the Devil. I would ask you to read though the book of Jeremiah, for example, and ask if you want to be associated with the god portrayed there. Is he pleased to be accused of the bloodshed carried out by man in his sacred name?

I am speaking up for the God of love that I am coming to know.

To those of you that have bothered to read this far - thank you. If you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses or an ex-Jehovah's Witness and I have in any way offended you, I would ask you analyse that emotion and ask why? Never stop asking why?

trevor

Edited by - trevor on 30 January 2001 12:22:24

Edited by - trevor on 30 January 2001 12:48:35

26

MDS I wanna talk

by mommy in

jw
friends

sir i do not know you or claim too.

this world is a funny place, and the people in it are even stranger.

some people get validation from their families and others get it from outside of their families.

trevor

Hi mommy/Wendy,

Thanks for raeding my posting. My final remark 'are you trying to impress us' was a follow on from my remarks to jr - it was not addressed to you.

trevor

32

Jesus second coming in the first century

by Jr in

this discussion will be quite extensive.

so, i have broken it up in to subtopics.

it will be shared by myself and associates in the faith.

trevor

Hello Bjc2012,

I appreciate your taking time to reply to me.

You confidently state that Jehovah God has been ruling over mankind since creation. You are sure of this because you read it in a book - the bible. Have you taken a good look around the world and found any evidence that a perfect God is exercising rulership over this world? I do not believe that the almighty creator, whether he is referred to as Christ or Jehovah, needs to prove himself to man or that he desires to be king over this tiny planet. This is the concept of men.

I realize you are sincere and I have no desire to argue with you or change you. You may have concluded from some of my flippant postings that I not up to serious debate. In fact I spent 30 years as a Jehovah's Witness many as a pioneer and public speaker. I know every translation of the Bible insideout.

I avoid long Biblical quotes because I do not believe that God has expressed himself through the Bible, it is man's attempt to express himself to God. Kings, sons, sacrifice and reward -these are man's concepts. If women wrote the bible we would have a totally different explanation. Yes there is some truth in the Bible but it is not the whole answer.

Life is a divine story it is God's biography, we are the pages and paragraphs. Truth exists in the reality of existence. All the answers are there they are living answers. Books are dead things. God expresses himself without words - he demonstrates his awesome power every day, on this planet and throughout the universe. This planet is one tiny pinprick in the vastness of millions of galaxies. We are told that there are 10 galaxies for every person on earth. The light from some of them has been travelling for billions of years. Would the creator of all this concern himself with whether he or his son became king of this tiny planet in 1914,1918 or is still waiting?

I have moved far beyond the Bible, the things written. The men that wrote it warned us not to, well they would wouldn't they. I can imagine your wondering why I bother to come on this forum - given my views. Well I have only been on for this month and it is probably time to consider whether there is any point in continuing. I shall have to see. Thanks for your time.

All the best
trevor

26

MDS I wanna talk

by mommy in

jw
friends

sir i do not know you or claim too.

this world is a funny place, and the people in it are even stranger.

some people get validation from their families and others get it from outside of their families.

trevor

Hi mommy,

I too have noticed this tendency of the people mentioned above to avoid answering specific questions raised, in direct response to their postings, if they are inconvenient or awkward questions.

I have, at different times, asked several questions and sometimes asked a person by name to reply. I have often been completely blanked. Pertinent questions are not welcomed if they threaten to weaken the rigid beliefs of the one asked. I have seen all this method of defence employed many time by Jehovah's Witnesses.

Juggling scripture around to try to give the impression that one is knowledgeable becomes very tiresome after a while. Even more irritating is the habit of printing out large chunks of bible text - as though the rest of us do not have Bible, or are unaware that these passages exist.

Firing scripture back and forth like a tennis match resolves nothing - the Witnesses have shown that. When Lark expressed doubt about the scientific validly of the Bibles account of the flood, Logical responded by quoting scriptures to show that God is unreachably high, his thoughts are higher, God chose the foolish etc. We are to dim to understand we must rely on faith.

I asked Logical why he is so named if does not believe we can arrive at an understanding based on 'logic? Why are we expected to make decisions which our eternal life depends upon, if we are too stupid to understand the workings of God? These are simple questions; they should only require simple answers.

I also asked J.r. some simple questions, he simply told me he would not reply to my negative attacks and wanted no further dialogue with me! What are you afraid of catching J.r. Does the honest examination of the Bible frighten you. It is clear that you have your own agenda.

Are you seeking truth or trying to impress us with some new interpretation that the rest of us are too simple minded to grasp? According to Logical it is the fools that God has revealed these things to.

39

Spy vs. Spy

by TR in

jw
friends

prisca's comments about wol made me wonder about official wts sanctioned spies and moles.

we all know for a fact that to the wts lies are ok, and spying does happen.

does anyone know of officially appointed wts spies, or do hard-core militant and/or plain old sneaky jw's just feel it is their duty?

trevor

Hi Java,

It,s a great photo - nothing like a fossil. If I had all that hair I think I'd place a photo. Hope you leave the shot there it is nice to know what you look like - still miss the coffee.

trevor

39

Spy vs. Spy

by TR in

jw
friends

prisca's comments about wol made me wonder about official wts sanctioned spies and moles.

we all know for a fact that to the wts lies are ok, and spying does happen.

does anyone know of officially appointed wts spies, or do hard-core militant and/or plain old sneaky jw's just feel it is their duty?

trevor

You know it's not just women who have to think twice about placing a photo. If the fellow happens to be good-looking, some people think he is in love with himself or wants the women to fancy him. I don't believe that is the motive in most cases but it has to be considered.

I know Java (recent photo) is too modest to be included in this remark - anyway I prefered the coffee cup - Java was it? I expect the women have other opinions.

trevor

83

God Changing Chosen Peoples

by eyes_opened in

jw
friends

my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.

he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.

jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?

trevor

Hello,

It has been interesting to follow this thread. What always amuses me is the way intelligent people will try to defend the indefensable, such as the Bibles account of the flood, and then when others raise serious and logical (lets not forget larc) points, they are patronised will neat little quotes. They are told that they cannot expect a satisfying answer but must rely on faith. Logical why do you call yourself logical if you believe we are too lowly to understand the reasoning of God or come to any conclusion based on - well logic?

'God's ways are higher than our's'. 'It's not for earthling man to work it out.' 'God chose the foolish.'My thoughts are higher than your's. Yet despite this idea that we are all too stupid to get to the bottom of it all we are supposed understand enough to make a decision upon which out eternal life depends.

I think are capable of knowing truth could it just be that we need to study more than the bible. There are other holy books that offer some very logical explanations books are after all designed to enlighten us. One would think that a book written by God would be the clearest ever written. Am I being too logical again?

I wonder if these same faith possessing people would vote for a political party that placed all the blame for the mess a country got in on the voters and then told them, they were to dim to understand so just have faith in us anyway, and do as you are told.
...........................................

'They talk of some severe testing of us all,
In which we'll all be judged and tossed to hell.
Pish! he's a good fellow and 'twill all be well.'

............................................

trevor

Edited by - trevor on 28 January 2001 6:3:56

4

Baptizm Vows Changed - WHY!

by trevor in

jw
friends

it is interesting to note the change that has taken place in the vows taken just prior to to baptism.

the two questions that i was expected to give an affirmative to are shown here:.

(1) "have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognising yourself before jehovah god as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the father, through his son jesus christ?".

trevor

Hi amicus & logical,

I am quite new to this forum - I didn't realize this subject had been covered. Thanks for your postings.

trevor

Edited by - trevor on 27 January 2001 15:44:26