Posts by trevor

31

Life changing books?

by iamwhoiam in

what are some books you may have read that have changed your life?.

two of mine are: .

1. tao te ching version by steven mitchell.

trevor

The Bible.

Fortunately I realized it was a hoax and read some factual books in time to mitigate the damage.

41

"Top 10 Grievances Against the Bible"

by leavingwt in

lady atheist.

my top ten grievances against the bible .

1. authority -- not -- it was compiled, copied, edited, codified and translated by men.

There are book collection that contain thousands of hard-bound study books. Some of them centuries old. Some contain truth, but most are hopelessly outdated. They are a record of humans attempts to understand and make sense of our world.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the Bible as a book. The difficulty is that it was presented by the Christian church as the inspired Holy word of God. The truth, the whole truth & nothing but the truth. This got a lot of peoples attention and gave it a status that it did not merit.

Naturaly, people who believed it be the word of God feel duped and angry. At the end of the day, life is full of trickery. Once we see that something is not all we hoped it to be or expected, all we can do is move on and be more cautious in future.

25

I need help with what to believe?

by hannahmcmanus in

i've been jehovah's witness for about a year now, and recently i've been finding problems in some teachings that my parents and congregation can't answer satisfactorily.

since i began voicing my issues my mum in particular has become increasingly overbearing and, although she says there's nothing wrong with asking questions, it's obvious she doesn't like me having doubts and not accepting her answers, even though they don't explain any of my problems.

it feels like i'm being forced down a path that i don't want to take, but i don't know what to do.

trevor

hannahmcmanus Many years ago I had the same problem with my father. Perhaps this excerpt from a manuscript I am working on, will strike a chord with you :

Father looked angry. ‘You ask too many questions, you always have. Why don’t you just accept what the Society says? We have the truth and we can leave the details to them.’

‘You have told me that you joined our religion all those years ago because you were impressed by the way the brothers that called on you took the time to sit down and answer all your questions from the Bible. Now when I ask you to be as reasonable with me as they were with you, you tell me not to ask questions. It is by questioning that we get to the truth. I can’t believe something until I am clear in my mind what it is I actually believe.’

Father had heard enough. He stood up. ‘You can believe whatever you like, but if you want to stay in the truth, you had better stop asking so many questions.’ He disappeared into his bedroom.

I turned to mother. ‘What do you make of all this?’ I asked.

I just believe whatever the latest publications say,’ she answered.

‘Even if it contradicts the Bible?’ I asked.

‘There are things we are not meant to fully understand yet.’

‘But doesn’t it trouble you to not know what would happen to you if you were to die?

‘I can’t discuss this with you,’ she said firmly.

23

Why do the JWs have such an aversion to philosophy?

by Darth Eowyn in

i mean, they seem to avoid it like the plague.

i know people will say that they only need the bible to guide them in life...etc...but i contend that you cannot simply read the bible by yourself; at least without knowing where the philosophical principles contained within the bible come from.

is this aversion of confusing philosophy with faith way over the head of most jws?

trevor

mrs jone5 Because magical thinking requires less brain cells?

Some good comments have been made in answer to the title question. I would add that JWs have been repeatedly told to avoid the empty philosophy of the world. This is an attempt by the Society to brainwash its members into avoiding rational thought & the application of proven facts to arrive at accurate conclusions. After all, they are meant to be sheep!

40

What is the most damning scripture in the Bible?

by viva in

for many years, i had serious issues with alot of scriptures.

the creation account, the flood, jonah in the whale, etc.

scriptures that are scientifically falsifiable.

trevor

The Witnesses own Bible had warned about false prophets who speak in the name of Jehovah:

“The prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.” Deuteronomy 18:20-22 – NWT

“Impostors will come claiming to be messiahs or prophets, and they will produce great signs and wonders to mislead even God’s chosen, if such a thing were possible. See, I have forewarned you.” Matthew 24:23-25 - NE

By 1916 it was apparent that the date had not brought the fulfilment of these major prophecies. The book was reprinted with a foreword, which explained:

“This was a natural mistake to fall into, but the Lord overruled it for the blessing of his people. The thought that the church would all be gathered to glory before 1914 certainly did have a stimulating and sanctifying effect upon thousands, all of whom accordingly can praise the Lord – even for the mistake.” Page 1V

To “praise the Lord - even for the mistake” gave the impression that God was in some way involved in the false prophecy which the final paragraph in the book had called “an unquestionable certainty.”

135

My theory about the behavior and obsession of some ex-JWs

by Simon in

jw
friends

i've had this theory for some time and alluded to it occassionally but have never explored it in detail.. it is of course a huge generalisation so no, not everyone will fit into the boxes and i'd like people's opinion.

i don't know everyone's circumstances so it's based on a small sample of some of those i do know something about.

it could be completely wrong, it's just an idea.. basically, i have seen a difference between some of those ex-jws who walked out vs those who were kicked out.. the most bitter and obsessive seem to be the kicked out and, i must add, those who were legitimately kicked out.

trevor

UnConfused

It is unclear from your post who you are talking to but as it directly under mine I am assuming it is me. Perhaps you are mixing me up with another 'Trevor' who I understand caused a lot of trouble for people.

I have received a fair amount of abuse and been ignored on this forum by quite a few people but it is a case of mistaken identity. I have been posting since 2001. A quick look at my post history might reassure you.

135

My theory about the behavior and obsession of some ex-JWs

by Simon in

jw
friends

i've had this theory for some time and alluded to it occassionally but have never explored it in detail.. it is of course a huge generalisation so no, not everyone will fit into the boxes and i'd like people's opinion.

i don't know everyone's circumstances so it's based on a small sample of some of those i do know something about.

it could be completely wrong, it's just an idea.. basically, i have seen a difference between some of those ex-jws who walked out vs those who were kicked out.. the most bitter and obsessive seem to be the kicked out and, i must add, those who were legitimately kicked out.

trevor

Willyloman

This is what has become so frustrating about this forum. There was a day when the posts and replies followed a theme, when replies came after reading previous posts and added something to the topic. Today, too often, you read these threads and realize that many of the people who have joined the conversation are not listening at all but simply holding their breath, waiting to talk.

You have summed up very well how many feel. Some of our best and most thoughtful posters have expressed similar feelings and quietly left.

There is still some truth to found among the seaweed but it is becoming rarer.

Some time ago I started a thread asking what personally motivates us to post? Each poster follows a set pattern which is very revealing.

135

My theory about the behavior and obsession of some ex-JWs

by Simon in

jw
friends

i've had this theory for some time and alluded to it occassionally but have never explored it in detail.. it is of course a huge generalisation so no, not everyone will fit into the boxes and i'd like people's opinion.

i don't know everyone's circumstances so it's based on a small sample of some of those i do know something about.

it could be completely wrong, it's just an idea.. basically, i have seen a difference between some of those ex-jws who walked out vs those who were kicked out.. the most bitter and obsessive seem to be the kicked out and, i must add, those who were legitimately kicked out.

trevor

Over the years I have noticed a high number of posters displaying obsessive behaviour. Obsessive people suffer from high levels of anxiety which often results in depression.

Most People overcome depression and replace it with frustration at the damage their problems have done to those around them, which leads to anger and further isolation.

A board like this can encourage obsessive behaviour, which acounts for some of those who are full time posters, trying to replace a real social life with cyber friends. Boards like this work well for balanced people but become an addiction to the type of person I have described. Argument and conflict increase obsessive tendencies. Constant posting may bring a temporary relief but ultimately increase repetitive behaviour.

In my opinion anyone who feels angry or more isolated than before as a result of a visit here, should take a break and go for some long walks. Also get involved in activities that reduce their stress levels and calm them.

Perhaps the closing of this forum will give some the opportunity to get on with their lives and get help with their obsessive thoughts. Anyone who feels an uncontrollable urge to Jump on to another forum and repeat the same behaviour, should honestly ask themselves what they are trying to achieve? Are they trying to help others or themselves?

135

My theory about the behavior and obsession of some ex-JWs

by Simon in

jw
friends

i've had this theory for some time and alluded to it occassionally but have never explored it in detail.. it is of course a huge generalisation so no, not everyone will fit into the boxes and i'd like people's opinion.

i don't know everyone's circumstances so it's based on a small sample of some of those i do know something about.

it could be completely wrong, it's just an idea.. basically, i have seen a difference between some of those ex-jws who walked out vs those who were kicked out.. the most bitter and obsessive seem to be the kicked out and, i must add, those who were legitimately kicked out.

trevor

One of my last conversations with an elder:

I arrived at the Kingdom Hall early for the evening meeting and wandered around chatting to the friends I had made. Elder Mature was still concerned about me and seized the opportunity to chat to me again. ‘It’s good to see you at the meeting and looking so smart Trevor.’ He ran his eyes over my suit no doubt puzzled by the lack of creases. I guessed what was coming next. ‘ You know we talked before about being strong in The Truth. It is meetings that make us strong. Without them we become weak and drift away.’

‘I am aware that missing meetings is seen as a sign of weakness.’ I commented.

‘Yes, and Satan is looking for weak members who have strayed near the edge to pick them off. If you stay close to the centre of The Organisation you will be safe. Jehovah will protect you if you draw close to him through regular meeting attendance.’

‘Not everyone leaves because they are weak. Sometimes the strong choose to walk away, whatever the cost to themselves, while the weak stay and look for people they perceive to be strong to cling to.’

Elder Mature looked at me for a moment taking in what I had said. ‘People leave because they have become weak in The Truth and loose their grip.’ He reaffirmed.

‘I am moved by your concern and I know you mean well but Perhaps the weakness lies elsewhere? There exists the possibility that if what is presented as The Truth proves to be weak, it is unable to hold people in its grip.’ I replied.

‘You are going to have to decide whether or not you want to serve Jehovah. You can’t do that without obeying his Organisation. There is no room for independent thinking in The Organisation Trevor.’ He said firmly.

‘You are not the first Elder to tell me that though you may well be the last. Thinking is always an independent action. The alternative is to shut our minds to reason and let others think for us and hope they get it right. That is called following blindly and is only made possible through an action called

cognitive dissonance.’

‘You have been reading those mind books again. The ones I warned you not to. Can’t you see how Satan has found a chink in your armour and is using this empty philosophy of the world to weaken you.’ He snapped.

‘I realize you have very definite ideas about the evils of education but understanding how our mind works and using it to its full potential is not made possible by a Devil. It is made possible because each of us a brain and it meant to be used, not buried under a pile of Watchtowers.’

Elder Mature’s eyes narrowed and I could see that he was upset. ‘We will have to talk about this another time when we can be joined by one of the other Elders, to see if we can straighten out your thinking.’ I watched as he walked away and wondered if the man that sold him his suit had a conscience.

7

JamesThomas

by poppers in

jw
friends

has anyone heard from him lately?

he hasn't been on the board for a long time and i no longer have an email address for him that works.

if anyone has a current email address i'd appreciate a pm.

trevor

JAMES THOMAS was one of the most sincere, polite and well meaning people who ever graced this board.

Not everyone went along with his expanded mind, find peace within yourself, go beyond thought approach to life but he brought a peace and tranquility to the board that no longer exists.

He knew what love was and existed in a place that few people find. He would have fitted in to the board as it was years ago but was wasted as it turned into a circus. When he left the board I realized that the game was over.

I salute James Thomas and hope he is keeping well and still in that peaceful place that can only be found inside ourselves.

I miss him more than I will miss the whole board. Simply too good for this place.