i'm not a witness, but i know one very well and we have had many discussions on various topics.
we would both like to know, however, if it is biblical to shun the disfellowshipped/disassociated?
where in the bible does the society base the practice of shunning or groveling back for a long period of time if a person is sorry and wants to return to the church?
Hello Charlie,
Yes the Bible does say that those that have left the faith should be shunned and not even to sit and eat with them.
The Bible also told the Israelites, when they were under law, to stone their children to death for disobedience and kill anyone who lit a fire on the sabbath.
You have decide whether to take instructions from an ancient book of decide for your self what is a decent way to treat others.
trevor
this is my first time on this board.
i have been a jw for over 40 years but currently am very discouraged and not very active.
i served at bethel for 4 years, 1963-67, spent most of my time at the kindom farms, s.lansing, ny.
Hello RJB,
I suggest you read 'Crisis of Conscience' by Raymond Franz. Available on the web at Amazon.co.uk.written by a man who was a third generation witness for the first 60 years of his life.
He served on on the governing Body for nine of them. We are not talking of a fringe member who drifted away but one of the leaders, who saw through the game at the Watchtower club.
All the Best
trevor
edited for spell check - oops!
Edited by - trevor on 18 January 2001 4:8:28
i recalled something said a while back by an elder during a service meeting a while back.
i beleive it was a local needs part on getting out in service.
basically what he said was this:.
Re: Things said from the platform.
We had one elder who was beyond understanding that some things have a double meaning. We waited eagerly for each of his appearances wondering what clanger he would drop next. People would smile in anticipation before he even spoke.
He took to the platform and in his normal Peter Cook voice asked " Have you ever had the desire? I know I have - Many times! As recently as last week a young sister expressed the desire to me."
Unable to undrestand why about one third of the congregation was laughing he continued. "Do you know what that desire was? The desire to have a Bible study of my own!"
Yes of course
trevor
a 'friend' of mine keeps telling me that everything i am reading here on this board is a packload of lies from people who have no respect for god.. he also tells me that if i would just go to the kh for once, that i would see for myself that jws are not the bad people that they are portrayed to be.. while i have my own convictions about this subject, i was curious to know what others' opinions would be on the fruitfullness of taking up this man's offer and going to the kh to see for myself.
so, what do you think?
what should i watch out for?
Hello ianao,
BEWARE THE TENDER TRAP.
trevor
i recalled something said a while back by an elder during a service meeting a while back.
i beleive it was a local needs part on getting out in service.
basically what he said was this:.
All atempts to offer help or charity are a waste of time. With the end of this wicked system just days away, we should devote all our energies to promoting the teachings of the WT as they have proved for over a hundred years that they have the truth.
Er - actually that was a JOKE!
trevor
whassup guys.
i've spent most of my web time over the last 2 years at another site full of ex-jdubs...i'd say about 50 people post there on occasion...many of that number regularly.. what struck me from the beginning, as i got to know the people posting there was...how many were now atheists...non-believers in god...the bible...pretty much anything they once held sacred as jw's!.
i dare say...90 some % do not consider themselves christian now!.
Being a Christian means being a follower of Christ. When on earth Christ wrote not a single word down. The entire account of his very brief ministry is all hearsay written by apostles who could not agree amoung themselves and viewed women as totaly secondary to men.
One of the clear requirements for a Christian - according to those that did bother write - was to sell their belongings, give their money to the poor and live a life of self denial. How many who claim to be Christians have followed this basic requirement?
I'd rather just try to be a good person and keep my house and investments. I am too selfish to give it all up to follow in the steps of Christ. Of course at least I am honest and that must be worth something.
Sitting by a warm fire - drink in hand - full stomach.
trevor
the subject of 'new light' holds some fascination for me.
and i have sought a wide spectrum of views to really understand the concept.
proverbs (4:18, i think) says the path of the righteous on gets lighter and lighter; pastor russel (or some very old literature)reaffirmed this inspired thought by stating that 'new light' never contradicts 'old light', only that it makes things clearer.
Tacking is required in order to cope with changing winds. Truth is not affected by wind, it goes straight and true and never changes.
I think a more accurate description of the WT is - lost at sea.
trevor
if this topic has been addressed already...sorry...just ignore it.... if not...i would like to hear from those who would defend this policy....or who see the inconsistencies in the views on blood but the wtbts.. .
the following is something i read on at another site.
there is no question that the watchtower's blood policy needlessly kills jw children.
I refer back to my original posting at the begining of this discussion.
The Bible's references to blood are concerning the misuse of animal blood. Jesus said eat my flesh and drink my blood. Although this was not literal he clearly did not think that it conflicted with the Isralite law. He was refering to human blood and it's place in saving lives. To suggest that a loving God would put the value of someones spare blood above a human life is not resonable. The WT allowed blood transfusions for the first 50 years of it's existence. In Bulgaria they have signed an agreement with the goverment allowing this issue to be a matter of conscience. Will the other sheep in WT club be allowed the same latitude now or will there be a different rule, depending on where they happen to be living, when a transfusion is needed. Nothing would surprise me.
I find all this fuss about how a God feel regarding blood transfusions rather unimportant when I contemplate the WT expectations of massive blood shed and butchery at Armaggedon at the hand of the same God. But then only worldlings will die so I suppose all is well.
trevor
if this topic has been addressed already...sorry...just ignore it.... if not...i would like to hear from those who would defend this policy....or who see the inconsistencies in the views on blood but the wtbts.. .
the following is something i read on at another site.
there is no question that the watchtower's blood policy needlessly kills jw children.
Hi,
The bible states that the blood must be poured on the ground as a mark or respect for the life of the dead animal. Greedily drinking animal blood is not in anyway the same as accepting as a gift the blood of another human in a life or death situation.
In the case of a transfusion ther is no life to account for as the doner lives. If a man can give his life on behalf of another surley they can give some of their spare blood.
Jesus showed that the proper use of human blood was to save life and instructed his disciples to symbolicaly drink his blood. The apostle Paul said in the WT Bible 'you will prosper, good health to you.'
The principle was never intended to cost human lives. A human life cannot be worth less than some spare blood given as a gift.The only proper use of human blood is to save life any other use would show a lack or respect. To die rather than accept the gift of some spare blood would show a total lack of respect for life.
As with most of the Bible it all comes down to how we want to see it. That is why the WT have changed their minds on so many things and will continue to do so.
trevor
i am sick of living a lie, yet afraid to change it.
married to a man who refuses to listen, who would rather plug his ears and shout "nooooooo" is taking it's tole.
i am afraid to speak my mind about my doubt, my thoughts, and what i'm learning, as i'm not ready to cross that point of no return.
RedhorseWoman,
Your listing of cult traits was very enlightening. I have printed it off.
Thanks
trevor
