Posts by trevor

33

Modern Bibles - Atonement - Part VI

by Perry in

atonement over the years since leaving the wt, i have found the doctrine of the atonement to be one of the major litmus tests for determining christianity and apostate christianity.

the roman catholic church has transsubstantiation and the sacraments for salvation (among other things) and the wt simply rejects christ each year formally at the memorial.

the wt spin on the ransom negates the need for an actual exchange to take place with our savior.

trevor

Definition of Bigot: Unreasonably prejudiced and intolerant.

Say no more!

36

Unrealized hopes and dreams - crappy reality of life

by tartarus in

i am thankful to jehovah's witnesses who taught me the bible.

i still believe it is the word of god.

i have studied other spiritual traditions and have compared different teachings and haven't found one that gives such a positive outlook on the future.

Faced with the complexity of modern life and the responsibility of making decisions on moral or political issues, many people look for guidance. The Watchtower Society offers this totally. There is a certain feeling of security to be found in an organization that makes all decisions for its members.

To be surrounded by people who think the same, share the same goals, hopes and activities, can remove much of the uncertainty in life that many find threatening. These straight mental corridors suit some people but to others they are too restrictive and become a prison.

It seems that you miss the direction and certainty that you once believed you had. It was an illusion. Life is uncertain and there is no set plan. What you are struggling to cope with is FREEDOM after escaping from a prison.

65

The year the end finally came: the YEAR OF THE BIG LIE

by Terry in

you have to understand three things to comprehend the significance of 1975.. 1975 was the end of the watchtower society as we who lived in the 50's and 60's once knew it.

it would forever change because it was exposed for all the world to see as a group of liars and deceived dupes.. it all began with a baptist farmer named william miller who sat down with only his bible and a concordance and a crackpot idea that a .

a "day for a year" and the gentile times meant something profound which would effect his own day and time.

trevor

Good post Terry

Just adding my own experience of the time for the benefit of JWs who think we imagined the 1975 fiasco.

At a series of conventions around the world in the summer of 1968 a new book was introduced, “The Truth that Leads to Eternal Life.” It has since sold over one hundred million copies.

I sat transfixed in the London assembly at Twickenham Stadium, as the speaker explained the reason for the book’s release. This small book had been designed so that a weekly study of just one hour covering one chapter a week would complete the book in six months. All other Society books used in Bible studies with interested people were to be put aside.

This was now the book to use. If those we studied with did not show definite signs of getting baptised after six months we were to forget them and move on. Why? Because time was running out - so many people to save and so little time! We were told that the end was now so close that there was no time to waste.

The atmosphere was electrified. The inspired talks that followed brought the stadium to its feet in unanimous applause. Men fought to hold back tears. We were on the brink of entering “The New World.” These wonderful men who, we believed, had direct communication with Jehovah God himself, were standing there before us and assuring us that all we had hoped and prayed for was almost here. I can honestly say that I have never experienced such euphoria before and I doubt I ever will again.

I was thirteen years old at the time and longed to leave school and save as many lives as I could by entering the pioneer service. The Watchtowers that followed kept up the excitement. The speakers in the Kingdom Halls were less cautious with their words than those the Society set to print.

Elders announced that they were selling their homes to go pioneering. Many gave up their jobs to join the crusade. Such heroism was actively encouraged by the Society and such men and women were held up as fine examples. Those who were less brave felt guilty - they were too fond of the things of this world.

In the few years that followed there was a certain magic in the air. The brothers and sisters could sense the nearness of all they had hoped for. We did not worry about trivial matters such as how much money we were making, how our careers were progressing, or what type of house we lived in. All that mattered was studying with new people and sharing our joy while there was still time – Time – Time! So much time passed and 1975 came and went, along with many disillusioned Witnesses.

18

why i disbelieve

by inkling in

the following is a response to a jw friend who still occasionally tries to save my soul, or at least understand it.. his questions are in italics.. i have not yet sent this email.. ========================= what exactly is it that makes you disbelieve there's a god, or makes you unsure he exists?

i think a more sensical question is what makes you so sure he does?

when debating the existence of something invisible, the burden ofproof rests solidly on the shoulders of the believer.

trevor

If there is a god, all I am asking for is concrete proof that he cares about the mess he has made.

I have an inkling that you are not totally certain that there is no god?

20

A grave contradiction?

by dark angle in

notion: .

all mankind has sinned because our greatx4 grand father adam sinned.

sin is passed through generation.

trevor

Just when I thought I knew it all, Narkissos comes along and with his usual flair demonstrates what real education is.

Viva la France!

97

Convictions or Reasons - which come first?

by nicolaou in

it's obvious right?

your convictions are supported by and dependant upon your reasoning and evidence.

what kind of person would choose a conviction first and then hunt around for evidence to support it, all the time ignoring any sound refutation and evidence which countered their cherished belief?.

trevor

Slappy

Welcome to the forum. I am not a Christian myself but just a strange collection of molecules that have deluded themselves into believing they can actually think!

You ave put together a good post. There is always room on a forum like this for sensible and reasoned debate, and you seem to be up to the job.

97

Convictions or Reasons - which come first?

by nicolaou in

it's obvious right?

your convictions are supported by and dependant upon your reasoning and evidence.

what kind of person would choose a conviction first and then hunt around for evidence to support it, all the time ignoring any sound refutation and evidence which countered their cherished belief?.

trevor

snowbird

Earlier in this thread I said, 'Sorry to be boring but reaching any conclusion with you through logical debate is like trying to catch a dream in a bottle.

I have worked it out now. Dreams are not meant to be kept in bottles they are for wine.

37

What Do You Worry About?

by minimus in

jw
friends

your health?

job?

family?

trevor

I worry about you minimus!

To be so red you must have high blood pressure.

12

Who am I, Who would I be???

by sparrow in

this is not to take away from the hardship a lot of people had due to abuse and other things inhumane people had to suffer as a result of growing up a witness that i have never have had to deal with.

however, nearly all of the bad experiences i have had growing up that i can recall are a direct result of doing the wrong thing against "jehoober" and the guilt that goes along with it.

man made rules, forced confession, missing meetings, not good enough, natural experiences growing up a dude - all bad/demonic, etc etc.

trevor

sparrow

You would be less confused. You would know that the difference between a sparrow and a dog. Sorry couldn't help that.

More seriously, we all eventually arrive at a point in life where we are who we would have been had not fate intervened and you have so many years to get to that point.

Or you can be there the moment you realize that all you are exists in your mind and you have total control over your thoughts and actions right now.

97

Convictions or Reasons - which come first?

by nicolaou in

it's obvious right?

your convictions are supported by and dependant upon your reasoning and evidence.

what kind of person would choose a conviction first and then hunt around for evidence to support it, all the time ignoring any sound refutation and evidence which countered their cherished belief?.

trevor

Welcome back Burns. I though for a minute I was seeing things.

I won't comment on your post - you need time to adjust to the light.