To finish up my 6th reading of the NWT, I decided to read Revelation without any of my WTS notes. I tried to read it without preconceived ideas about what it could mean and whatnot, here's what my amateur uneducated reading uncovered:
-Christians thought they were going to heaven
-Jesus/Jehovah identity is sort of murky
Some of Revelation may have soothed a damaged ego. The Jews have the temple in Jerusalem, but we have an even bigger temple in heaven. Slaves now, but kings later. Our enemies will die terrifying deaths because Jesus loves us.
Mostly I was disturbed by the very hardline approach John was taking. Die as a martyr and rule with Jesus for 1000 years. But, Worship the beast and God will torture you while letting you see the throne you missed out on. No middle ground, the cowards and faithless are just like the murderers in the eyes of the lord.
No wonder all those Christians choose a horrible death rather then worship the emperor. Those were very high psychological reward and punishments.
After finishing the last chapter of Revelation, I drove by a sign in a window that said "Give your life to Jesus because he loves you" and shuddered, because if Rev is from Jesus, then all those deaths were his will to have happen.
How could he disdain the pharisees for putting heavy loads on the people, and put an even heavier one on his own flock? Why not just let them be Jews since being Jewish apparently didn't disqualify one from everlasting life.
I mean no disrespect to the ancient Christians, or to Jesus. It's just that Revelation gave me that same sick feeling in my stomach as I get from reading Watchtowers.
...I probably shouldn't have read it all in one sitting >.>
emperorslaundrist
JoinedPosts by emperorslaundrist
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some thoughts about Revelation
by emperorslaundrist into finish up my 6th reading of the nwt, i decided to read revelation without any of my wts notes.
i tried to read it without preconceived ideas about what it could mean and whatnot, here's what my amateur uneducated reading uncovered:.
-christians thought they were going to heaven.
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emperorslaundrist
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"We get presents all year; who needs Christmas"
by WTWizard ini don't know how many times i have heard that lie from the platform.
i have heard that line of rubbish at big and great boasting sessions as well.
the witlesses act as if they get as many toys as worldly people, just scattered throughout the year.. now, i have seen many cases where that simply isn't true.
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emperorslaundrist
all my toys were hand-me-downs, but i do have one great memory where my mom took me to Toys-r-us, and let me choose one item, anything i wanted. she waited patiently while i carefully deliberated. I ended up choosing a $20 doll, i loved that thing so much :)
I had an interesting month with my husband this December. He kept bashing and bashing Christmas, ranting about how horrible it was and how horrible it makes people, until it finally occurred to me- he's feeling left out. he's bashing it so much because he wants to participate in it. I thought of letting him be, maybe his pain will wake him up. But I'm weak and kind, so I took my small savings and bought him a cell phone he wanted. I wrapped it up and put it under our houseplant. His bashing of Christmas was instantly cured, and I got to be amused by how little his 'christmas present' bothered his conscience. -
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Do Witnesses Ever Talk About Their Living Forever And Never Dying?
by minimus inmy 86 year old mother stopped believing she was going into paradise earth without dying first, about 10 years ago.
my aunt used to think she was going to make it through the great tribulation.
even a week before she died, she clung on to this fairy tale.. do you think jws believe they will never die at all and will, in their lifetime, be on a paradise earth to live forever?.
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emperorslaundrist
it's such a strange new thing to realize that I'm not going to live forever, that my parents aren't just going to wake up again one day. there has been this dull sad ache in behind my chest and gut from it, but i wouldn't give up my new freedom of thought for anything. death is so liberating, the WTS lost it's power over me when i choose death. embracing death all of my guilt and fear evaporates, and life becomes crisper achingly beautiful and mysterious.
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Why I no longer believe the WTS
by emperorslaundrist inthe light came on for me while i was re-reading this fantastic blog: .
http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2006/08/youve-been-brainwashedpart-two.html .
my favorite part: .
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emperorslaundrist
thanks :)
a part of my mind is free but I can see I still use black and white thinking,
false confidence and authority,
their language,
I haven't looked at my belief in God or in the bible
Thank you so much for being kind and patient with me
Next post will be my notes from the new CO talks, unless that has already been covered
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Why I no longer believe the WTS
by emperorslaundrist inthe light came on for me while i was re-reading this fantastic blog: .
http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2006/08/youve-been-brainwashedpart-two.html .
my favorite part: .
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emperorslaundrist
The light came on for me while I was re-reading this fantastic blog:
http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2006/08/youve-been-brainwashedpart-two.html
My favorite part:
"Cult members were hand-chosen by her. They were expected to be mere supplicants to her great wisdom. They must submit to her definitions of them. They must hang on her every word. They must listen to her shifting definitions of morality and incorporate them into every day life. Of course, what is right one day is wrong the next which is very unbalancing to your mind and keeps the narcissist in control. Hers is the voice of the Holy Spirit....to not act like you believe that to be true will result in harsh penalties. She took up more and more control of their everyday lives."After reading this I quickly read grabbed my study magazines to see for myself. Here's what I observed:
-They violate boundaries. Where does Jehovah and Jesus end and they begin? Jehovah's will and their will are indistinguishable.-They violate boundaries with their members: Everything that gives money/time/resources to the org= GOOD
Everything that takes money/time/resources away from the org= Bad
-They show no true remorse or gratitude.
-They surround themselves with genuinely good people to prop up their grandiose image.
Here are a list of traits from the DSM IV - how many have you seen?
-Reacting to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
-Taking advantage of others to reach their own goals
-Exaggerating their own importance, achievements, and talents
-Imagining unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance
-Requiring constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
-Becoming jealous easily
-Lacking empathy and disregarding the feelings of others
-Being obsessed with oneself
-Pursuing mainly selfish goals
-Trouble keeping healthy relationships
-Becoming easily hurt and rejected
-Setting goals that are unrealistic
-Wanting "the best" of everything
-Appearing unemotional
Having only a few of these traits is normal. Having all of these traits is a problem.
Can I really trust these folks to make my spiritual decisions for me? If I had children?
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A lot of things that used to puzzle me make more sense now.
Why did I see a higher % of Narcissists in kingdom halls then the general population?
Why were the most dedicated ones I knew us looking so burnt out and miserable, when they should have been spiritually refreshed?
Why was it that most witnesses I knew were totally clueless about the obvious predatory humans in their midst? (My "current truth" is that the ones who could see pathology ran like hell from this organization. Most most of my friends and family who are in have at least one abusive parent. Apparently when a person is raised by an abuser they tend to not see it as an adult. Which, makes me think the stuff about this being a pedo's paradise and finding people with the "right heart condition" *shudders*)
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Lest the reader believe I've been deceived by Satan's worldly philosophy- the only reason I believed the stuff I read about personality disorders is because the bible dedicates a lot of space to defining evil. The similarity between the observations of bible writers and the psych-community are uncanny.
For example, I fell of my chair when I read Ps 58:3
"The wicked ones have been perverts from the womb;
They have wandered about from the belly onward;
They are speaking lies."
Because I had just read Dr. Robert Hare's controversial theory that some psychopaths seem to be born that way.
Now that I see it, I don't think my mind can ever go back.Hope this was helpful. G'night all :)
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newbe
by emperorslaundrist inthank you for this forum.
thank you for your stories which helped wake me up from my delusion.
thank you for letting me join you.
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emperorslaundrist
@MrFreeze
Thanks! I hope not either
@mouthy
ty, I can really feel the love coming through your blog, hope to check it out soon.
@james_woods
thanks, sorry for such an unwieldy user name- shorten it to anything you'd like. I like EL because of it's biblical history.
(El is Baal, but also the title Lord Israelites used for Jehovah. Learned that from the Babylon the Great book so who knows)
@coffee_black
thanks! I'm a huge coffee-addict
@breakfast of champions
ty, i really feel welcomed
@PaintedToeNail
ty, better now then later, right :)
@clarity
ty, so glad I'm not alone
@finally awake
ty, me too ;P
@PrincessPeachz
:) ty
@cofty
thanks for the compliment. I met the speaker the morning of my baptism, and he mentioned me in his talk... but he said I was 12. At the time I thought he just forgot, now I wonder if he changed it because 10 is sort of controversial.
@Yan
ty and I really want to read those books!
@happy@last
yeah, my head's still reeling from this new perspective
@jwfacts
coming from you that's an amazing compliment. I want it very much to become true
@BlindersOff1
thank you :). unfortunately it was also my intelligence which drew others into an abusive relationship with this organization, and strengthened their faith in it. I have much to repent of.
@00DAD
Totally!
@cantleave
ty, i need every bit of luck I can get
@lostgeneration
i agree. I have my eye on a part-time job that a witness is offering, maybe that will be less threatening to my mate.
@brizzzy
I hope it doesn't come to that, but since wishful thinking has been my downfall I'll defiantly keep that possibility in mind.
@mind blown
thank you, as I'm a little distrustful of my mind at the moment it's nice to have my perspective validated.
@Blackbird Singing
thank you, I hope my posts live up to your expectations
@Pterist
hi fellow noob :) thanks for the tips, i didn't know that actually, this is my first time joining a forum.
@Tater-T
I love the lyrics of that song!! To get in my car and leave all the crazy behind me would be bliss. Thanks for sharing it.
@alfredjones100
Thank you for the advice. Reading through the angry posts reminds of forums I've read for children/spouses of personality disordered folks. which reconfirms my reasons for mentally leaving- WTS = Narcissist abuser.
I can't hate 'em entirely, much as I want to. They did give me much, I have a high tolerance for tedium for example. lol.
I haven't hit the angry stage yet, but I'm sure it'll be a dozy when I get there. I'll try not to get stuck
@free @ last
ty, i hope my contribution will be helpful
@fresh prince of ohio
hehe I like that one too, but it isn't mine, I stole it from this forum.
@ziddina
thanks! i never thought of a counselor. maybe I should talk to one, I've never given much thought about my hopes and dreams.
My husband's pretty nice most of the time. His mom abandoned his family, so his abandonment buttons are pretty sensitive. Still, I want to live a meaningful life, even though it might mean hurting him.
@LisaRose
Thank you. I had doubts before, but I've always been able to explain them away until now. You should of seen the logical fruit loops I made while studying the "Christan Freedom" study article this year.
Since none of the material on personality disorders mentioned JWs and I've seen it's principals play out over and over in real life, it was objective to me. It gives me context to understand my experience. It's more truth then "Truth" to me at the moment.
Today has been so encouraging. Thank you :) Sorry I still use borg language. Goodnight everyone -
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newbe
by emperorslaundrist inthank you for this forum.
thank you for your stories which helped wake me up from my delusion.
thank you for letting me join you.
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emperorslaundrist
rebel8 yup, pretty sick.
As a child listening to the meetings I remember figuring that my mom didn't have much of a chance of surviving, since she didn't go out in service enough. (wasn't inactive, mind you just not enough)
It was sort of a relief when she died, because then I knew she'd be resurrected.
my mind is so messed up from swallowing all this stuff whole.
I'm glad you found your way out to mental freedom :) -
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newbe
by emperorslaundrist inthank you for this forum.
thank you for your stories which helped wake me up from my delusion.
thank you for letting me join you.
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emperorslaundrist
</form> I really appreciate your warm support and encouraging comments. I'll probably be revisiting this thread over and over again when I start feeling those lows. It really does feel like death.
I sense I have a long way to go before my mind is free.
I've been slowly reading this forum, silent lambs, and JW facts. Slowly, because I've been getting terrible headaches as each of my sacred cows get slaughtered.
I'm sorry for not writing a proper response to each post, getting ready for meeting.
There're two lines I like from Sun Tsu that keeps going around in my head
"He is victorious who knows when and when not to fight"
and
"To subdue an enemy without fighting is the greatest of skills"
Going forward will require everything within me, I'm sure. -
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newbe
by emperorslaundrist inthank you for this forum.
thank you for your stories which helped wake me up from my delusion.
thank you for letting me join you.
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emperorslaundrist
</form> @problemaddict
I stopped last December because of problems with my health (probably psychosomatic lol)
The lynchpin? I think there is a part of us that knows even while our conscious mind is clueless, because I had been praying to know the truth no matter what the personal cost was.
My moment of awakening happened while reviewing some old narcissism information. I immediately read through the recent study mags and saw it fit the pattern. I'll make a new thread later about what I saw.I hope that answers what you wanted to know
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newbe
by emperorslaundrist inthank you for this forum.
thank you for your stories which helped wake me up from my delusion.
thank you for letting me join you.
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emperorslaundrist
</form> hi again
thanks for the warm welcomes :)
@ruderredhead I would love nothing more then to take my husband with me. I'm taking it slow because as much as he loves me I know he would choose the org over me. I can't blame him for it, the old me would have done the same.
I'm drip feeding him the things I see that disturb me, and back off when his defenses go up.
@John_Mann Sure, I'm happy to know I have something to contribute.