Posts by Reasonfirst

45

Isaiah 40:29-31 and Being Gay

by IWant2Know in

i'm new here and i have perhaps an unusual question.

it's just something that i would like to know from ex's or formers rather than from other jehovah's witnesses.

but i would like to know what your experience and your struggle was for former jws who were gay when they were jws.

Reasonfirst

OK, IWant2Know, I'll try to answer your questions.

My knowledge of my friend's struggles, comes from various conversations. Some of his memories came to light while I was doing a degree (for some 10 years) at Sydney's Macquarie University and Sydney Uni. I went there to study Asian History, and during one Semester focused on Japan. So I'm not going to pretend that I understand all his inner thinking on his life. I don't

During that period, I found that non-western attitudes in regard to homosexuality were quite different to Western culture. That's not to argue that it was equivalent in values to heterosexuality, just not condemned when someone indulged themselves with another male. In particular, one academic in the Japanese department was doing some studies into something called Shonen Ai, (which translates as 'as love between boys.') and also Yaoi

This can be seen as a cultural movement that started last century by a group of women who were dissatisfied with traditional attitudes by men toward women. I don't suggest that they were 'gay,' but that many decided to examine attitudes of gay males to each other in Japan to see how they thought male/female relationships could be improved. Does that sound improbable? Well, let me assure you that it's true.

Quote, from Wikipedia (under Yaoi)."It is typically created by heterosexual women for heterosexual women and is thus distinct from bara (gay manga), a genre of homoerotic media marketed to gay men, though yaoi does also attract a gay male audience and can be produced by gay male creators"

This led to many conversations with my friend.

So over the next day or so, I'll try to discuss your comments.

3

When a Whole Branch Went Bad !!(or was it Good?)

by singsongboi in

jw
friends

when a whole branch went bad (or was it good)?

part 1. .

i guess it's too late to get much of the details of this story (outside of the official versions), but we ought not to lose it altogether.. so i'm committing to print what i know of this story, and hoping that somewhere out there will be someone else that knows more than i do, about one of the more exotic incidents in the history of the wts.

Reasonfirst

Cant add much to singsongboi's account. His nick is interesting, whatever possessed him to choose that name ( in S.E.Asia a singsongboi or girl is a prostitute ). I'm going crazy with forgotten faces and names running through my brain.

Some of the names ring a bell in my brain, but not many.

The branch servant, McGillivray, who ssb mentions was before my time too. But the story goes that the Bethel home (then in a Sydney suburb of Strathfield) had been occupied by the army, with armed sentries on guard, day and night. (no doubt to prevent any surreptitious activity in support of the enemy). But the Bethel workers were allowed to continue to live there.

So the the story goes that brother Mc, had been out dining somewhere and came home late and some-what tipsy and was challenged by the sentry and instead of taking it seriously and answering correctly, he said something silly.

So ... the sentry shot him.

I forget where (maybe an arm or leg) and it certainly wasn't fatal, but he must've been the only Australian religious figure ever shot by a soldier doing his duty. (grin).

The Jws, were called, "a national nuisance," at the time, a term I guess that resounds with many readers here.

The WTS hired a lawyer and challenged the Menzies government's ban. The case eventually got to Australia's High Court and in 1943 the ban was revoked.

But years later, householder would still sometimes call us traitors.

Sydney University academic, Jayne Persian, has researched that case, and lots of details can be found in this paper.

https://fac.flinders.edu.au/dspace/api/core/bitstreams/3d2129f3-b63c-460c-ba18-222ddbb7349d/content#:~:text=In%201941%2C%20during%20the%20Second,Australia%20during%20the%20twentieth%20century.

45

Isaiah 40:29-31 and Being Gay

by IWant2Know in

i'm new here and i have perhaps an unusual question.

it's just something that i would like to know from ex's or formers rather than from other jehovah's witnesses.

but i would like to know what your experience and your struggle was for former jws who were gay when they were jws.

Reasonfirst

ScenicViewer and Iwant2know ask

B.O.Y. ???

bloody old yahweh

see Wikipedia's discussion of the word bloody and its use as an intensifier, and other meanings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody

45

Isaiah 40:29-31 and Being Gay

by IWant2Know in

i'm new here and i have perhaps an unusual question.

it's just something that i would like to know from ex's or formers rather than from other jehovah's witnesses.

but i would like to know what your experience and your struggle was for former jws who were gay when they were jws.

Reasonfirst

OK, IWant2Know, here's what I've decided to say.

You'll have noted Kosonen's post, and his use of the word 'sinful' and expressions like 'serious sinful feelings.' That's where the problem starts, these words etc, are deeply embedded in christianised western culture, and not necessarily part of our nature.

But anyone born in western culture, can have a battle with what they are and feel, and the inculcated cultural attitudes.

As my friend explains his life, he (like most of us) does not remember having sexual feelings before puberty. But after puberty his sexual feelings were quite strong, but undirected (that is to a specific sex). He, like a lot of other kids in that time, had no real sexual experience with anyone else. But he did have erotic feelings toward other boys, and some fumblings in the dark in newsreel theatres (no longer existing). And, of course, the problematic conflict caused by western cultural attitudes. Around 17-18, coming to make a real decision about his future, he came into contact with the jws. and was 'organised' into studying with a good-looking young brother (who's still a witness).

My friend also became a serious jw, and began to suppress his desires. Eventually, he was convinced that B.O.Y. had 'cured' him, and he could get married without internal conflicts. So, he met an attractive (and, zealous) young sister (I interpret his descriptions to mean that she was a bit 'boyish' and rather flat-chested), got married, and pioneered with her for many years. Then, like many other jw women, she started to want children. He gave into her, and they soon had a family. All this time, as he tells his story, he did not seem to have any attraction for other males.

Life wasn't easy of course, he claims to have seriously loved his wife and children and in an attempt to provide for them, worked very hard, as well as having jw duties. But in working hard (without of course any specific training) he eventually had to travel, and during a week away from his home city, during an evening run through a park, he was accosted by an attractive young man. He refused, but that brief incident, re-awaked his suppressed sexual feelings. The next time he visited that city, on another run through that same park, he gave into a similar offer.

This brought very serious emotional conflict into his life ( I judge that he went through something close to a breakdown). This was post-1975, and like many of us, began to have some doubts. These grew, his same-sex desires also grew, his marriage began to breakdown, and he began to become suicidal. Eventually, he was exposed as being a sexual sinner and was expelled from B.O.Y's "pure" organisation. His wife too (who, of course, divorced him) was shattered and his daughters. All of which made his feelings worse.

That brought even greater emotional conflict, and he planned suicide. He wanted to find a good-looking young guy, to have a holiday with, and after that to drive a car off a cliff.

Almost predictably, he did meet a young guy, but the young guy had some problems, and in helping him found a second life partner with whom to share his life.

They are still together.

45

Isaiah 40:29-31 and Being Gay

by IWant2Know in

i'm new here and i have perhaps an unusual question.

it's just something that i would like to know from ex's or formers rather than from other jehovah's witnesses.

but i would like to know what your experience and your struggle was for former jws who were gay when they were jws.

Reasonfirst

One of my friends was kicked out for because he was gay (that was quite a long time ago). He told me his story, and I've been debating in my mind whether to tell it. It covers some of the matters your asked about.

Maybe tomorrow

10

Finally fixing my teeth, since "The End" never materialized.....thx WT HQ!

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

this is just one of several sore subjects for me concerning growing up in the toxic cult known as jehovah's witnesses.

health care.

specifically, dentistry.

Reasonfirst

My sad story of teeth hassles

Well, here I am - near to 90 y.o. Not too many bloody (original) teeth left in my mouth. I cant blame B.O.Yah entirely. I was born at the end of the depression, so not too much money* around to do or have anything, then came the war and even less money. Not much left over for a kid's teeth.

After the war I got involved with the jws, and for some stupid reason believed the bible shit. Some 10 years pioneering, with part-time work, miserly allowances, eating crap food and so on, believing that any day, we'd all find ourselves in a new world where the bloody super dentist, Jesus, would fix our rotten teeth and perform even more miracles than that. After some 40 years, belief in the divine powers of little Jesus began to fade, and soon I found myself kicked out of B.O,Y's ever-loving organisation.

The 9 teeth I have left, are all I have to chew over anything. So thanx to ol' B.O.Y and his side-kick jesus, I could finish up with none.

But, Satan's world came to the rescue, thnx to government funded programs I will soon have a set of shiny new dentures (for nix). Thank U Satan's world.

* To illustrate, my father after going broke a couple of time, got a government job as an inspector. His territory stretched some 50 miles. To get around that, the government supplied a bicycle, or else he caught a bus. Today, guys doing the same job are supplied with cars, trailers etc.

54

Is AI going to change the world?

by Reasonfirst in

jw
friends

had lunch with a friend, whose a lecturer in the accounting dept.

of one of australia's best universities.

he told me he expects to lose his job at some point in the next 5 years, as the accounting dept, will disappear, as all accounting will be done by ai programs, so why teach it.. if his fears are correct, that means that any profession that involves the mind, may one day face the same future.

Reasonfirst

Seems to be an improvement in processing power:

Shared from The Conversation. The authors are Zdenka Kuncic is Professor of Physics, University of Sydney and Ruomin Zhu is a PhD student, University of Sydney

https://theconversation.com/we-built-a-brain-from-tiny-silver-wires-it-learns-in-real-time-more-efficiently-than-computer-based-ai-216730

54

Is AI going to change the world?

by Reasonfirst in

jw
friends

had lunch with a friend, whose a lecturer in the accounting dept.

of one of australia's best universities.

he told me he expects to lose his job at some point in the next 5 years, as the accounting dept, will disappear, as all accounting will be done by ai programs, so why teach it.. if his fears are correct, that means that any profession that involves the mind, may one day face the same future.

Reasonfirst

An aspect of AI that I had not considered, mainly because it's the first mention I've seen of this issue.

This is an extract from an article in the HK based South China Morning Post:

"China is joining forces with Asean and the United Nations to tackle the scam networks that have dug in across Southeast Asia, the UN Office on Drugs and Crime said on Tuesday, as it warned that the region’s criminal gangs were becoming more powerful, networked and were adopting AI to widen their pool of victims."

27

Pornography in the Marriage

by LostintheFog1999 in

the magazine that they are studying in the congregation this month has an article at the back about how pornography in a marriage could damage the relationship.. there's one piece of advice that sounds rather scary, the wt suggests that the couple should "consider asking an elder with whom you are both comfortable to sit in and guide your discussions for a time.".

how many of you would want an elder present in your home while you and your partner discussed your personal sexual cravings and the type of porn videos being watched?.

Reasonfirst

Rattigan350: Quote."How is pornography in the marriage any different than going to a restaurant to eat rather than having the wife's or husband's cooking? "

To continue your analogy (which I liked) pornography can also be likened to reading recipes - looking for ideas to make the matter more interesting.

Of course, through christian religious propaganda, pornography has become an ugly word, not suitable for the subject.

27

Pornography in the Marriage

by LostintheFog1999 in

the magazine that they are studying in the congregation this month has an article at the back about how pornography in a marriage could damage the relationship.. there's one piece of advice that sounds rather scary, the wt suggests that the couple should "consider asking an elder with whom you are both comfortable to sit in and guide your discussions for a time.".

how many of you would want an elder present in your home while you and your partner discussed your personal sexual cravings and the type of porn videos being watched?.

Reasonfirst

Well;! ..... They do have a lot of experience with the effect of a penis in their brains