Posts by gingerbread

87

Bible Writers not just ignorant "goat herders"

by applehippie in

really, the bible was written by nothin' but goat herders?

i don't post much but this does irk me.

yes a few may have been shepherds or fisherman, but a fair amount were far more educated and were professionals in their fields of occupation.

gingerbread

The land of "Canaan" that the Isrealites settled was an excellent choice from an economic perspective. It was centrally located between many thriving cultures/nations. What we now know as Palestine was a major corridor for trade between Africa, southern Europe and the near east. With trade came cultural exchange - ideas, stories, beliefs. Most ancient Hebrew writings share the same plot lines with all of these other cultures - from Adam and Eve, the Great Flood or Jonah in the big fish. These stories (myths) were shared with these early Hebrew traders.

Not to burst your happy bubble - but, there is no physical, archeological evidence of a large group (it is claimed to be up to 2 million) of people every being present on the Sinai Peninsula. Moses leading a group of people out of Egyptian "captivity" may have happened. But they never wandered for 40 years in the wilderness.

48

With the July 15 WT approaching, would this be the ideal opportunity to start an ACTIVELY VOCAL fade?

by Captain Blithering in

jw
friends

by 'actively vocal', i do not mean openly criticising the articles and pointing out the inconsistencies or flipflops (not footwear, reversals).

i do mean letting people know that you're finding it hard to understand the new truth, and the fact that there is therefore old truth, or falsities, (is that a word?

it is now), therefore if there are falsehoods (that's the word, of course), then that puts into doubt the extent of jah's involvement in the preparation/dissemination of it all... (and making it clear you're not saying they aren't gods prophets on earth, just that you're not sure, don't know).. the reason i ask is cos i'm finding it hard to completely fade without an external reason.

gingerbread

Cap'n - as I've read some of your earlier posts on JWN, I see that you are fairly new in deciding to make an exit. I encourage you to take a step back (and a breath) and let everything "simmer" for a bit longer. Perhaps you're raising these questions because you're not sure of your immediate future. Take some time to build your own personal conviction about the realities of this religion (organization).

You can't change your wife's mind. She must to this by herself. You can help this process along by taking time with her to "learn" about the history of JW's as an organization, the origins of the core beliefs and the changes in policies & doctrine. Be patient.

The course you've decided upon is a "minefield." If you get excited/anxious and run across, you will take a hit. Don't blow up your marriage during the escape.

23

My Grammy is dying....

by diana netherton in

she's in her last stages of luekemia.

she fell a few days ago and she's going downhill.

quickly.

gingerbread

What a great example to follow! Your Grandmother was honest, loving, considerate and lived what she believed. It sound like she is a great human being - this has nothing to do with her religious affiliations. It must be a real honor to have know her so well. And a great way to honor her life is by living yours just as admirably!

24

The only thing a JW needs to know to be set free from their religion

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

billions of human beings right now are muslims, hindus, buddhists, etc, etc.

they do not know a jot about 'jehovah' or the 'watchtower bible & tract society of new york" etc etc.

what is going to happen to these billions of persons at armageddon?.

gingerbread

This question was the beginning of an honest evaluation of my religious upbringing and what I had come to know as the "Truth."

I knew that Jesus required Christians to love their neighbor as they do themselves. So, I put myself (mentally) in the shoes of another - perhaps a person who was my age, born in the Middle East, a follower of a non-Christian faith who is just getting on with the business of life... And an all knowing, loving and compassionate God was going to use his Son to destroy me, my family, my friends, etc just because we were born in this time period of "the end" in a part of the world that JW's didn't preach in? I was "ignorant" of the "Truth." But I was a really good person/spouse/parent who was compassionate, friendly and supportive of my family, neighbors and community...

It began a continual nagging in my mind that maybe, just maybe, we JW's have things kinda messed up. That was a new beginning...

27

How did the 1919 GB know they were chosen ?

by Phizzy in

the present gb/fds claim a kind of apostolic succession going back to the now claimed first appearance of the fds in 1919.. i don't think anywhere is it made clear who made up the fds then, but let us go along with the fiction, (in reality we know only rutherford really ruled the roost) and assume there was a group of guys who were the fds, how did they know they were chosen as such ?.

there obviously is nothing in the wt writings of the time as all this is noo lite, so, if they did not know their heaven appointed role, why would they carry it out, except by accident?

and if so, how could they possibly produce "food at the proper time "?.

gingerbread

One fact remains constant throughout the short history of this organization - whether the Bible Students or JW's - is that it's leadership has been hand picked by Jesus to represent him (and his heavenly kingdom) here on earth.

This belief (and support of this belief by the faithful) gives the leadership ultimate authority and power. To provide "proof" of their right to rule (or how they received this divine blessing) could potentially undermine their righteous and prophetically determined position.

35

Does being a "born in" blur parental vs JW issues?

by obfuscatetheobvious in

thank you to the many people who have posted their experiences and advice on this site!

i have browsed a few topics but the threads that i seem to gravitate to the most deal with family.

there is certainly a lot that i can relate to in many of the anecdotes i have read.

gingerbread

As a son and a father to a son, I understand where you are coming from. The rise of conflict between parent and child of the same sex has been part of human experience from "the beginning." The rising friction between a father and the growing son is a typical pattern in most mammals. There are hundreds of studies by anthropologists and psychologists that examine this phenomenon in great depth. Most agree that it serves a biological need to drive male offspring (who carry the same genetic "stuff") away from the "herd" or family unit to avoid excessive interbreeding. It's a matter of long term survival for a local subset of a particular species.

In humans, a father's "repulsion" of a son forces the child to develop independance. Unless your family has some major disfunctional issues, this "repulsion" is a natural process. Once the son physically leaves the family unit and is fully independent, the relationship between father and son transforms into something new - as grown up men, allies & confidantes that is based on mutual respect.

20

What happens before a Judicial Committee?

by jw07 in

i can't get into much detail, but i might have been caught doing something natural and fun that the gb would have a fit over.

(i'm not sure at this point if i was seen).

the elders have called a meeting of the entire body tonight, which is strange since they usually meet on weekends.. i've been worrying and sweating like crazy since then, which i think is the programmed jw guilt switch in my mind going off like crazy.. what i want to know is:.

gingerbread

If you are accused of "wrongdoing" and want to stalemate the whole process then confess nothing, deny everything and accuse all and any "witnesses" of lying. Have "evidence" in your mind to discredit any accusation and possible testimony. Answer all questions with a 'yes' or 'no' and don't explain anything further. Answer a question once. When it's asked again, reply that you have already answered. Don't let them pressure you to answer. Take your sweet time. You can always reply with "I don't recall." Never talk to an elder or the elders over the telephone. They will be recording your conversation. Never talk to an elder alone - in person, by phone, by email, messaging or texting. Do not discuss this matter with anyone else in the congregation. If you do, it gives them grounds to announce your discipline to the congregation - and increases your chances for being disfellowshipped. You can't cut a deal with them.

Oubliette is correct in refering you to the "Shepard the Flock" book regarding the judicial procedure. This process cannot be found in the Bible...

132

NEW video on Youtube MUST SEE! the elder's meeting is ridiculous!

by Newly Enlightened in

brother of the hawk, newly enlightened & gojira, recorded an elder's meeting on 5/7/03.

both does a great job of defending me and making the elders look foolish!.

thank you raypublisher/jj and jwstruggle for the awesome job you did on it.. follow up story was not recorded but we will post it here hopefully over the weekend.. enjoy, it's pretty hilarious how they try to control us and come after me on a work of fiction!.

gingerbread

This is a classic example of an "investigation" being started by the elder body. They show up at your house, it starts off a bit uncomfortably and then they dive in to the accusation phase. Elders will refuse to reveal their sources - though in this "call" the one elder admits that he heard about it from his wife...and the talk originated in a 'car group'. The couple backs these guys into a corner - using the Bible and WT quotes - and the elders argument melts. It becomes laughable...one elder suggests that she could have used an alias (lie).

More judicial committees are formed as a result of talk during field service - one person starts the gossip and others spread the story. The elders are now "forced" to create a committee > because the alleged wrong doing was now a "public" matter.

I wish this couple the best. It ain't over 'til the axe falls. If they feel like they made their point and are now in the clear i.e. these elders are on their side - they're dreaming. (And I'm assuming the couple later got the 'boot' - since they allowed the video to go public)

Wrestle a pig and you'll end up being the exhausted one with mud on your face.

63

marrying younger spouses

by ssn587 in

jw
friends

my wife passed away 2 years ago we had been married over 30 years, i have since remarried and my new wife is younger than 3 of my children from my first marriage.

i just wondering if there are any more like me out there.

i stay in excellent shape for my age, work out almost daily eat good and have absolutely no medical problems or at least none i can do anything about, bad knees, but my vitals are excellent, and i am known as the teenage because of them when i have my yearly medical checkup.. so was wondering if there are others out there like me, and what some may think about it, just for the record i am extremely happy once again, and we have a 18 month boy who delights me, have a whole new outlook on fatherhood and child raising.

gingerbread

This is an interesting thread from a JW point of view. Early marriage between young people is very common in the Org. Other threads on JWN have recently discussed the reasons.

Age difference between a husband and a wife varies between cultures. At one time it was very 'normal' to marry a young girl - sometimes crossing state lines to make it legal. Young women often - just a few decades ago - married at age 13 or 14. And sometimes to a first or "second" cousin. This kind of marriage was considered acceptable. Often it was a "shotgun" wedding.During that same time period, it was illegal for a man of color to marry a white woman. In the 21st century both of these situations are deemed culturally offensive - in my part of the world. Though still very common in some cultures, an "arranged marriage" seems offensive to the Western mind. A father "trading" his daughters as wives to his male peers is as equally offensive.

A common saying is "follow the rule of seven" - if a man divides his age in half and adds seven years, that's the youngest age a girl can be considered for marriage. Otherwise it's kinda creepy. But, that rule applies in my neck of the world...

36

Trying to handle my JW mom

by KatyMomof2 in

jw
friends

my mom is a recent widow.

she, being a jw does not have means to support herself and does not seek higher education ( because that would take from her studies ).

so, she is living ( sponging off of ) me.

gingerbread

This is a toughie KatyMom. Your post title tells a lot about your situation. First you admit that you're trying to handle your mother. You must accept that you will never be successful at controlling another person. I'm guessing that your Mom has never been the best at respecting boundries, or being told no, or accepting responsibility for her own actions. I also am guessing that your Mom uses anything at her disposal (including her religion) to control others. It pushed you right out of the house.

JW's who have children who have "left the truth", often have a burning desire to "save" their grandchildren. This new calling in life can border on the irrational.

Be honest with yourself and make a decision that benefits you and your kids. Did you allow your mother to move in with you because of the additional $ she brings into the house? Is she now the sitter for the kids while you are at work - saving you money? If you bring another person into your home, you must accept the good with the bad. Instead of this being your Mom - if she was a friend, cousin or co-worker - would you put up with this sort of behavior?