how are we able to do this.. this is not an attempt to stir the pot or cause confusion but i was sitting here thinking of all the really horrid things that the old testament god did to people.
when i was a jw i just purposely put it to the back of my mind always trying to make an excuse.
when i was in field service and someone would ask me about it i would just change the subject.. however i have been reading alot of info lately here about how wonderful jesus is and how he is a direct representation of what god the father would be.
Remember that these books and laws were written by people of a different time. Many of the horrific customs are still in place in the Middle East.
Actually the ancient 'Isrealites' enacted and lived by these codes of conduct - including mass murder, slavery, discrimination, body mutilation, etc. - and used the 'god' as their authority.
If a group of leaders can use a divine authority to justify their actions, anything is possible.
ginger
when i was a kid, it seemed like not a meeting went by when you didn't hear about jonah or sampson and other tall tales from the bible.. now though, they seem to have been sidelined.
i guess the rest of the world caught on to the fact that these stories couldn't possibly be true and were so far fetched (yeah, even by bible standards) that they are just treated as 'stories' like aesop's fables.
saying that you believe in them as genuine accounts just makes you look like a crazy zealot.. but the wts is different.
@ tootired - and there is no solid archelogical evidence of a massive, nomadic group of people living/existing on the Sinai Peninsula during that time either!
Weird Bible stories:
The people of Noah's time were so bad and evil that the solution to this problem was to cause a flood and save all the ...... animals??
Lot's daughters get the old fella drunk and then get busy with him....two nights in a row. And he has no memory of it? He is SO drunk...but somehow his wedding tackle rises to the occasion.....???
ginger
i for one would be very interested , if you can quantify what his acheivements have been , these past almost 100 years .. incidental acheivements could do for a start ,.
followed by more meaningfull acheivements ,.
then to top it off , with his major acheivements that he can be accredited with these past 99 years of his kingdom rule ,.
He has refined the leadership of the earthly part of his heavenly government so well that it now only takes 8 men to control the lives of 7.5 million willing, subservient, unquestioning people.
It's amazing that they can completely control a person's time, employment, education, association, family life, entertainment, finances, love life, relationships, retirement, medical choices...
Also - somehow Jesus has turned these guys into outstanding financial speculators, real estate developers and legal wiz kids - with only high school diplomas and years of volunteer experience on their 'resume'.
ginger
we had another couple over this weekend.
after taking a reasonable hike in the woods, we came back to the house, made a fire and began to talk a bit.
these folks are long time friends of ours and are (like us) slowly easing out of the kingdom hall.
I've always thought it suspect when the Org. began printing two Watchtower editions - public & study.
I can forsee that the private congregation study edition of the magazine will be printed by each publisher/family or viewed with a pad or tablet. In 'our' congregation, if anyone is in need of a mag at the meeting, they are given a copy - not a mag.
The financial burden of printing mags will be transfered to each congregation. In countries where finances are limited, we will be called upon to donate even more to the 'world wide work' to assist those brothers.
ginger
we had another couple over this weekend.
after taking a reasonable hike in the woods, we came back to the house, made a fire and began to talk a bit.
these folks are long time friends of ours and are (like us) slowly easing out of the kingdom hall.
We had another couple over this weekend. After taking a reasonable hike in the woods, we came back to the house, made a fire and began to talk a bit. These folks are long time friends of ours and are (like us) slowly easing out of the Kingdom Hall. They live an hour from us and we don't ever talk specific 'apostate' stuff - we all still struggle with the crazy JW distrust....dancing around topics specific to the 'truth'.
An interesting thought was raised by the hubby. He says that the Org. seems to be distancing itself from it's Watchtower past - erasing C.T. Russell from the Faithful Slave 'class', putting up banners on the buildings in New York with JW.org (instead of Watchtower), encouraging the use of pads and tablets at the meetings, the new brochure campaign where the placements will be counted, etc.
Are these 'changes' being put in motion to ease into the eventual end of magazine publication? Will the printeries change to brochures and leaflets exclusively? Is the kiosk and cart program in place to just direct interested ones to JW.org? Is the history associated with the WTB&T Society and it's early publications too damaging for the 21st century Org?
ginger
i see some post here that want family and friends to see ttatt immediately.. i'm a gardener, a serious one.
we make sure we put in an area that gets sun, check the soil each year, put in compost and other amendments, make sure we plant seeds compatible with the ones next to them, plant far enough apart, proper amount of water.
everything can be perfect but when i go out the day after planting...nothing has broken through yet.
Thanks Blondie for your honest and balanced take on the fading/leaving process. Your well researched posts and heartfelt comments have done much to assist me (and our family) in our journey out of the religion.
Early on during my examination of my concerns about my faith, I was most turned off by strongly opinionated (militant) anti-Watchtower posters - and those who want to fight and argue.
Comments from you - and others - that were reasonable is what helped us.
ginger
this isnt a slight against any here who have married more than once.
and of course if you have left the religion you are not bound by their doctrines.. however i am concerned with jehovahs witnesses, people in good standing within the congregation who have married multiple times , and it seems it is not a rare occurence .their seems to be many who have married 2 or 3 times.
i personally knew a sister that was married 5 times and was a sister in good standing .admittedly this may have been an exception .. however divorce is not an isolated incidence with jehovahs witnesses , nor is it isolated that the witnesses themselves initiate divorce proceedings .. another thing , jehovahs witnesses are only 8 million world, a wide a small sect compared to other major religions.. so i just wonder what the ratio of jw`s compared to mainstream religion is regarding divorce .. can anybody fill in these figures ?
Every official marriage talk applies Ecclesiastes 4:12 (threefold cord not easily broken) to the new couple's relationship - including God in the marriage. This 'really' means applying bible principles - as determined by the Governing Body - in the marriage.
This produces some of the most disfunctional relationships I've ever seen - and it's rampant among the latest crop of born-in, homeschooled barely 20 year olds.
Like my first marriage, these are filled with passive/aggressive behavior, guilt, control issues, financial difficulties and the inability to be independent of the congregation and family.
Divorce is going to happen in these marriages at rates much higher than in those with people who are emotionally mature, stable and excited about life. As a friend of ours says - "you JW's do things that us 'worldly people' would never do - lying, stealing & cheating".
ginger
section 3 first!.
how was bible truth rediscovered?.
it goes in to the section and explains that false teachers were foretold to arise after jesus died (and the apostles died according to one conment).
The idea that a "small group of truth seekers fulfilled Bible prophecy" (C.T. Russell and the early Bible Students) through honest study of the Bible found the truth of God's word is a 'not-so-true' distortion of historical fact.
Research the following people:
William Miller
Ellen G. White
Henry Grew
George Storrs
John Nelson Darby
Henry Dunn
Jonas Wendell
George Stetson
Nelson Barbour
William Henry Conley
These people were the originators of the doctrines and beliefs promoted by Charles Russell - and are used today by Jehovah's Witnesses. Most of what we believe - basic, core beliefs - came from these people.
ginger
i really don't like people disparaging active jws on this site by calling them stupid, idiots, morons and that, and making out like they're willing puppets to the gb or cruel at heart.
or describing them like they're puke or as having no desire to learn or listen.. to you, all these things may be true.
we all have opinions and are entitled to them.
I've come to believe that the most aggressively vocal and judgemental members on JWN have never ceased thinking like a Jehovah's Witness - 'I'm RIGHT and you're WRONG'.
Thanks for this post, Julia!
Letting go is like taking in a breath of fresh air. Sweep out the cobwebs and move on!!
ginger
cedars story made me wonder why are parents and loved ones so quick to shun??
i mean it can be shown biblically that only people that do not believe in jesus as the messiah are apostates.
thessalonians tells us to keep admonishing one as a 'brother' and jesus christ himself said to love your enemies.
Because the majority of current Jehovah's Witnesses are not students of the Bible. They follow the direction of the Governing Body (the Faithful and Discreet Slave) by reading and studying the publications of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (the Organization).
The GB says to shun (no talking, no greetings, no meals, no visits, no phone calls, no letters, no emails, no text messages, etc) any member (or former member) who no longer abides by the 'rules' set forth in the Organizations publications.
If any active member ignores these 'rules' they will be shunned (by family, friends and any Witnesses in the congregation/circuit/district/country/world).
No compromising. Not a personal matter. Period.
ginger
