Posts by gingerbread

39

An important question for active JW's

by Honesty in

jw
friends

if you and a fellow jehovah's witness went to a house where the homeowner brought up a watchtower doctrine which you secretly disagree with, would you defend it or tell them what it is you really believe?.

either way you are at a loss.. defending something you disagree with is living a lie and telling a lie.

not defending it and telling the home owner what you really believe makes you an apostate by watchtower society standards.

gingerbread

We stopped turning in a service report last summer after the convention. Before that I had been actively researching our religion (we were both raised-in) and I was having doubts galore.

In hind-sight we were personally questioning things for a couple of years - and this was creeping into our conversations at the door. And we began the habit of just 'working' in service as a couple - no swapping out or going in different car groups.

We used to use all the stock responses to objections - cherry pick the scriptures and use plenty of Watchtowerisms. We were considered in the congregation to be good in field service - with plenty of positive return visit experiences.

I found myself 'listening' to the person - what they were really saying, what scriptures they were using as a basis for their belief. I also began to engage in real conversation - admitting that Jehovah's Witnesses don't have all the answers.

ginger

32

Is the Watchtower Destroying All Thinking Skills of New Witness, Compare them to when you were in the Organization!

by RottenRiley in

many jws don't know the basic doctrines we all use to debate the clergy with.. .

jws don't know the bible, the know a few proof-texts but can't handle the bible like the witnesses of 1950s-1990s, what happened?.

the caliber of the new elders is horrible when compared with the elders of 1950s-1990s, they don't know how to use their bible, they are turning towards orgnazational minor details while ignoring the bible and gospel message.. .

gingerbread

The OP references 'thinking skills of new Witnesses'.

This question is significant and should be of great concern.

In developed parts of the world, it's reported that the majority of baptismal candidates are born-in/raised-in youths. Many of these young kids have born-in parents. It's their grandparents who studies with Jehovah's Witnesses and made an adult decision to become members of this religion.

As a result, the 'new' ones are products of generational mental simplification. To compound the problem, the WT refuses to give the okay to it's members to pursue professional degrees through higher education.

The 'new' Witness finds himself with only a basic (at best) understanding of history, science, the arts and economics. His earning potential is well below the median for his part of the world.

He needs outside structure (his religion) to dictate how he will participate in life. He is a conformist. He is only concerned with the basic necessities of life (like a baby). He is dependent. He is controlled.

ginger

32

Is the Watchtower Destroying All Thinking Skills of New Witness, Compare them to when you were in the Organization!

by RottenRiley in

many jws don't know the basic doctrines we all use to debate the clergy with.. .

jws don't know the bible, the know a few proof-texts but can't handle the bible like the witnesses of 1950s-1990s, what happened?.

the caliber of the new elders is horrible when compared with the elders of 1950s-1990s, they don't know how to use their bible, they are turning towards orgnazational minor details while ignoring the bible and gospel message.. .

gingerbread

For a century they have been telling us that we can come to a true understanding of the Bible ONLY by reading and studying their publications.

They ain't jokin'.

You can't trust your neighbors, your relatives, your heart, your emotions, your ability to reason, your thoughts...your mind. You MUST NOT read the Bible alone or on your own.

You MUST trust them exclusively (loyalty) and without question (doubts).

No longer does a gray area, conscience matter or personal choice exist in the organization/congregation.

Those days are long gone.

ginger

33

Special Assembly Day - tepid applause

by sir82 in

jw
friends

just got back from a recent sad.. after most talks, the applause was, at most, tepid.. it was striking in its tepidity, if that is possible (and if that is a word).. affter most talks, applause lasted literally no more than 5 seconds.

its volume was scarcely above a whisper.. it wasn't acoustics - the bethel speaker was technically a polished speaker (although presenting the same old boring info), and his talks generated noticeably louder applause.

but even still - that applause was maybe 10 seconds, and about normal-conversation level.. but local speakers - the applause was not much more loud than the hum coming from your refrigerator.. there were 1300+ people there.. it was just so weird - my previous large-group experience was at the agm, where people were nearly apoplectic & drooling with delight over their new "silver bibles" (which very few have read, i'd wager).. these guys were just "zombified".. speaking of bibles - bethel dude called it a "platinum bible".

gingerbread

Over the years the WT leaders have taken away what little bit of fun/joy/emotion that could be shared.

We used to have small orchestras or bands play the songs at conventions and most halls had a piano and a player.

We had parties for those that were baptized or gave their first talk.

We had large congregation (or multi-congregation) 'get togethers' with hamburgers and baseball.

We had 'book studies' in homes with snacks (and beer/wine) afterward. We played tag in the back yards or caught lighting bugs. We had our first crushes there too.

We looked forward to conventions and assemblies to look for someone to date (and they weren't crazy, homeschooled, JW rules worshipers).

We used to be able to hold hands and hug our spouse (or boyfriend/girlfriend) during the prayer.

The energy is now all gone.

Most that regularly attend meetings & assemblies are aged - and have heard this stuff a thousand times.... bored. Alone.

ginger

44

The purpose of changing JW names, titles and terms

by gingerbread in

during a discussion over the weekend, we exchanged ideas about recent changes in terminology related to assembly days, conventions and new titles for the higher-ups.

i commented that for years in 'security' at larger meetings we were told to talk to any that seemed out of place and ask questions that would indicate if they were apostates - antiquated terms like 'overseer' or a reference the 'truth' book.. another in our group brought up the character in the orwell book 1984 and how his job was to separate new and approved terms from old words.

this was called doublethink and blackwhite.

gingerbread

My dad worked in accounting at the Conventions for many years. He showed me recently that only brothers with special colored stickers on the back of their convention badges were allowed access to the $ counting room.

When anyone approached the convention 'office' they had to lift the badge and show the attendents (guards) at the door the stickers. Different stickers allowed access to different areas of the guarded office.

The structure of the inner workings of the Org. are clubby and secret in ways the publisher never realizes. Information is also given out (to quote the JW rule) on a "need to know basis".

ginger

13

What would the Watchtower Society do...?

by LogCon in

when the economy collapses, and it will, worse than 2008, far worse.... ...what would the watchtower society do if a large group of homeless jw's starting camping out at wakhill, new york, perhaps in a large 'tent city'?.

gingerbread

Whenever a natural disaster occurs, the WT swoops in as 'organizers' to 1) repair/rebuild Kingdom Halls and 2) to assist any active Witnesses with physical assistance in the short term. Any other assistance to any neighbors, non-witnesses, public spaces or buildings is voluntarily done by the publishers at the scene - on their own nickel.

The Congregations take over after the initial mess is stablized. Meanwhile, the Org. continues to broadcast a need for additional $ donations - that should be sent to Headquarters.

If a publisher or family in a congregation is going through hard times, the elder body might approach others (with good jobs) and ask them to assist.

I had a home burn down once - and all we received from the Congregation was a couple of boxes of books and magazines. The neighbors (and some local churches) gave clothes, toys and money...

ginger

44

The purpose of changing JW names, titles and terms

by gingerbread in

during a discussion over the weekend, we exchanged ideas about recent changes in terminology related to assembly days, conventions and new titles for the higher-ups.

i commented that for years in 'security' at larger meetings we were told to talk to any that seemed out of place and ask questions that would indicate if they were apostates - antiquated terms like 'overseer' or a reference the 'truth' book.. another in our group brought up the character in the orwell book 1984 and how his job was to separate new and approved terms from old words.

this was called doublethink and blackwhite.

gingerbread

The Society has always been 'clubby' about inside terminology, secret understandings, a private 'language'. In this sentence I use the word "Society" - which is now no longer freely used to describe the New York offices / Governing Body. The current term is "the Branch" or "World Headquarters" or "the Faithful Slave" or "Mother".

Your references steve2 make sense. > Changes in terminology often indicate changes in leadership as well.

I think the massive doctrinal shifts that have taken place in the last decade (and last year for sure) are being reflected in the changes in words and definitions.

Heck...they even felt the need to rewrite the Bible.

11

My DA from the WBT$ 'membership'.

by punkofnice in

i posted this on the private board 2 years ago but now don't care who sees this as i'm no longer in hiding from the wbt$ cult members.. these are transcripts of the 2 letters i recieved leading up to my being da'd (not df'd), for apostacy(tm).

dear punk.

i am aware that you have requested that there be no contact from the congregation, but there is an outstanding matter that needs to be resolved, and we would like to have your co-operation in resolving it.. .

gingerbread

It's their way..... or the highway.

44

The purpose of changing JW names, titles and terms

by gingerbread in

during a discussion over the weekend, we exchanged ideas about recent changes in terminology related to assembly days, conventions and new titles for the higher-ups.

i commented that for years in 'security' at larger meetings we were told to talk to any that seemed out of place and ask questions that would indicate if they were apostates - antiquated terms like 'overseer' or a reference the 'truth' book.. another in our group brought up the character in the orwell book 1984 and how his job was to separate new and approved terms from old words.

this was called doublethink and blackwhite.

gingerbread

During a discussion over the weekend, we exchanged ideas about recent changes in terminology related to assembly days, conventions and new titles for the higher-ups. I commented that for years in 'security' at larger meetings we were told to talk to any that seemed out of place and ask questions that would indicate if they were apostates - antiquated terms like 'overseer' or a reference the 'Truth' book.

Another in our group brought up the character in the Orwell book 1984 and how his job was to separate new and approved terms from old words. This was called doublethink and blackwhite. Interesting way to control and manipulate information.

Is the change in terms a way for the faithful to feel up to speed with the organization? Is it an easy way to identify anyone who is not active so a private shunning is possible?

61

Problems of Dating the Watchtower Way

by enigma1863 in

i wanted to know what problems you have learned about dating in the "truth" acording to there policy.

i feel like you dont really know someone until you live with them.

also some put on a false personality until they get what they want i.e.

gingerbread

The Watchtower Society sends a clear message that women are to be treated like 'property'. They are to be quiet, modest, in subjection (to husbands and elders) and controlled.

The approved dating methods are only for the selection of a marriage mate i.e. men shopping for a wife. That is why young sisters are trained to get all fixed up for the conventions - to attract a 'spiritual' brother.

It's a no brainer that marriages resulting from this method are unhappy and artificial. It's all fantasy - til the day after the wedding.