Posts by TerryWalstrom

26

Jesus Christ: Invented by the Romans to subvert the Messianic impulse in Judaism into Pacifism?

by TerryWalstrom in

of course, there are many crackpot theories about all sorts of things.

we hear about them,look into them and laugh.however, once in a great while, somebody presents a cogent and feasible thesis backed up by scholarship and history.watch this video presentation and present your rebuttal (or agreement) for discussion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uqg8w7ezuq&t=268s.

TerryWalstrom

It's fascinating how everybody draws water from the same well over and over and it tastes different every time :)

Eisegesis

26

Jesus Christ: Invented by the Romans to subvert the Messianic impulse in Judaism into Pacifism?

by TerryWalstrom in

of course, there are many crackpot theories about all sorts of things.

we hear about them,look into them and laugh.however, once in a great while, somebody presents a cogent and feasible thesis backed up by scholarship and history.watch this video presentation and present your rebuttal (or agreement) for discussion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uqg8w7ezuq&t=268s.

TerryWalstrom

Question: Before I invest time watching the video, in what way is this not just another crazy conspiracy theory?

Reply: I'd say it comes down to Occam's Razor. It's a simpler explanation for Jesus Christ which matches the known facts.

26

Jesus Christ: Invented by the Romans to subvert the Messianic impulse in Judaism into Pacifism?

by TerryWalstrom in

of course, there are many crackpot theories about all sorts of things.

we hear about them,look into them and laugh.however, once in a great while, somebody presents a cogent and feasible thesis backed up by scholarship and history.watch this video presentation and present your rebuttal (or agreement) for discussion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uqg8w7ezuq&t=268s.

TerryWalstrom

Another view:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar's_Messiah?fbclid=IwAR1jTfvcN69SjeQE6cn0IiqWRTKmHtj_Svgvpg20HioSzaLyaFYi1PGDXeA

______________
Wiki:
"Caesar’s Messiah is a 2005 book by Joseph Atwill, which argues that the New Testament Gospels were written as wartime propaganda by scholars connected to the Roman imperial court of the Flavian emperors: Vespasian, Titus, and Domitian. According to Atwill, their primary purpose in creating the religion was to control the spread of Judaism and moderate its political virulence. The Jewish nationalist Zealots had been defeated in the First Jewish–Roman War of 70 AD, but Judaism remained an influential movement throughout the Mediterranean region. Atwill argues that the biblical character Jesus Christ is a typological representation of the Roman Emperor Titus.

Atwill's theory contradicts the mainstream historical view,[1] which is that while the Gospels include many mythical or legendary elements, these are religious elaborations added to the biography of a historical Jesus who did live in 1st-century Roman Palestine (Judea),[2][3][4][5][6][7][8] was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.[9][10][11]

26

Jesus Christ: Invented by the Romans to subvert the Messianic impulse in Judaism into Pacifism?

by TerryWalstrom in

of course, there are many crackpot theories about all sorts of things.

we hear about them,look into them and laugh.however, once in a great while, somebody presents a cogent and feasible thesis backed up by scholarship and history.watch this video presentation and present your rebuttal (or agreement) for discussion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uqg8w7ezuq&t=268s.

TerryWalstrom

Of course, there are many crackpot theories about all sorts of things. We hear about them,
look into them and laugh.
However, once in a great while, somebody presents a cogent and feasible thesis backed up by scholarship and history.
Watch this video presentation and present your rebuttal (or agreement) for discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UqG8w7ezUQ&t=268s

11

Jehovah's Witness core Doctrine has changed over time. Has Dogma changed?

by TerryWalstrom in

first things first!let us define our terms: doctrine and dogma.doctrine: a codification of beliefs, taught principles, or positions.

dogma a set of principles laid down by an authority (in this case, the governing body, acting as the faithful slave of christ) as incontrovertibly true.

_____in the catholic church, dogma never changes but doctrines have over time.this sets me to wondering.

TerryWalstrom

Maria Russell has been attributed by the Watchtower as having asserted that the
Faithful and Wise Servant ss the doctrine of empowerment (she included herself with her husband for the logically mystical reason the two are one.)

Russell kept the money, the property, the power and made all decisions.

Rutherford made all the decisions as he transformed the shell of leadership into yes-men of his selection.

Knorr and his bosom companion F. Franz made all the decisions until lunacy and a brain tumor sputtered to a halt.

Franz (having failed utterly at his 1975 fiasco) was voted up into the GB leadership--BUT--after a committee coup wherein the power was diluted into a voting group.

Fast forward through eruptions of GB apostacy (Ray Franz) and the purge.
Modern times have brought the spooks out of the dark old house of GB-dom into the artificial light of studio broadcasting.
They've taken a scythe to so many tenderly held beliefs, it is like Gettysburg after Sherman.
The "responsibility" of ownership of power has been magically unplugged from GB members for purposes of shielding them from a direct lawsuit.
Like Santa himself, the GB have "helpers".

Lawyers run this engine and the inmates of the sanitarium await sacred pronouncements like the press watching for white smoke at a new Pope's appointment.

I would say this: DOGMA in this religion is as slippery as KY jelly and used for the same purpose.

11

Jehovah's Witness core Doctrine has changed over time. Has Dogma changed?

by TerryWalstrom in

first things first!let us define our terms: doctrine and dogma.doctrine: a codification of beliefs, taught principles, or positions.

dogma a set of principles laid down by an authority (in this case, the governing body, acting as the faithful slave of christ) as incontrovertibly true.

_____in the catholic church, dogma never changes but doctrines have over time.this sets me to wondering.

TerryWalstrom

Nice catch on that one!
Yes. If anything is bedrock--it is that.

11

Jehovah's Witness core Doctrine has changed over time. Has Dogma changed?

by TerryWalstrom in

first things first!let us define our terms: doctrine and dogma.doctrine: a codification of beliefs, taught principles, or positions.

dogma a set of principles laid down by an authority (in this case, the governing body, acting as the faithful slave of christ) as incontrovertibly true.

_____in the catholic church, dogma never changes but doctrines have over time.this sets me to wondering.

TerryWalstrom

First things first!
Let us define our terms: Doctrine and Dogma.

Doctrine: a codification of beliefs, taught principles, or positions.
Dogma a set of principles laid down by an authority (in this case, the Governing Body, acting as the Faithful Slave of Christ) as incontrovertibly true.
_____

In the Catholic Church, Dogma never changes but Doctrines have over time.

This sets me to wondering. Would the Governing Body admit to holding any incontrovertible Dogma? Or is it all up for grabs?

The Governing Body has often had to state the obvious but with a sense of discovery.
"We are not infallible" is one such statement. It doesn't count as humility inasmuch as it is the most provable assertion in the world.

The issue of Blood transfusion has been incrementally fuzzed into confusion over time and the loosey-goosey double talk might suggest personal conscience might one day be the bottom line.
Voting, Conscientious objections, homosexuality, abortion, tight pants--you can put whatever you like on this list---is it Dogma or Doctrine?
What do JW's hold to be incontrovertible?

6

Salesmen working on commission (i.e. colporteurs, Pastor Russell's business)

by TerryWalstrom in

"despite the millions of books and magazines sold by charles taze russell and his tower publishing company, and the hundreds of thousands of tracts and other literature distributed free by zwtts between the mid-1870s and 1900, only around 2600 persons bothered attending the watch tower society's local memorial celebrations in 1899. a significant percentage of those 2600 persons were russell's "colporteurs", who earned their livings selling russell's literature for a profit.

charles taze russell was absolutely correct when he proclaimed for decades that zwtts was not a religion -- it was a business.

"_____"zion's watch tower magazine was not owned by zion's watch tower tract society, but rather was a "for-profit" business owned personally by charles taze russell and his tower publishing company, and that the "growing debt" which was "burdening" the work of zwtts was owed to charles taze russell, himself.

TerryWalstrom

Orphan Crow
The link works fine for me. Your device may have some sort of filtering heuristic triggered by the address, however.

8

What would we think about a person who lived alone in the dark for years and years on purpose?

by TerryWalstrom in

the spookiest questions about god are profound when we take one step back and examine who/what such a god would be... j-u-s-t before creating the universe.... .

before anything was created: god wouldn't have been "the creator".

with nobody around wouldn't be supreme being (superior to who/ what?

TerryWalstrom

"There is a shorthand we use when we teach evolution. What we say is, 'Evolution adapts creatures to their environment."
That is NOT what it does. Evolution adapts creatures to the environment of their Ancestors."

When whatever was true for the ancestors is no longer true for the Modern descendants, those inherited coping and adapting tendencies, intuitions, interior 'truths' become a mismatch, a dissonance, and our strongest instincts and gut feelings will work against us much to our chagrin.

Eternal 'truths', mythologies, legends, and tradition got our ancestors through tough times enabled futures generations (us) to arrive.
But the more modernity changes our landscape from our ancestors, the more misleading those gut instincts will be."

The question becomes, "Should we treat our traditions and ancient wisdom that carry over into this day as God-given and learn from them?--NO! If ever there was a time not to do that--it is now."

Quotes by evolutionary biologist, Bret Weinstein

8

What would we think about a person who lived alone in the dark for years and years on purpose?

by TerryWalstrom in

the spookiest questions about god are profound when we take one step back and examine who/what such a god would be... j-u-s-t before creating the universe.... .

before anything was created: god wouldn't have been "the creator".

with nobody around wouldn't be supreme being (superior to who/ what?

TerryWalstrom

The spookiest questions about God are profound when we take one step back and examine who/what such a god would be... J-U-S-T before creating the Universe...

Before anything was created: God wouldn't have been "the Creator". With nobody around wouldn't be Supreme being (Superior to who/ what?)

What would fill the mind of God when "nothing" is there --except you?

(What is the "you"?)

If God were lonely, that would necessarily imply insufficiency.

(An insufficient God?)

There would be nothing to Love but yourself.

There would be no need for Justice or Wisdom. (Wisdom? About what? Nothing exists) (Justice? Who for?)

Without Light, this "God" was existing in darkness for eons--except--there were no 'events' by which to measure time--so, "God" would be like a lab specimen floating in a bottle on a shelf in a closet with the lights off for the eternity before creation.

What would we think about any other person who lived alone in the dark for years and years on purpose?

Creepy? Hermit? Mental?

These are spooky questions but the most troubling one is a simple question. When God created humanity, they were unnecessarily inferior to angels and angels were unnecessarily inferior to God.

I say "unnecessarily" because the INEQUALITY deliberately deprives the inferiors of equality of opportunity without permission.

This craving (on the part of God) was for adulation, worship, subjection, endless gratitude, and it seems to me all these behaviors are demeaning acts required of inferior beings who can't possibly provide them flawlessly and consistently.

The consequence for mankind consisted of thousands of years of animal slaughter and bloodletting to "appease" the angry deity. WTF?
MENTAL DISORDER
There is a disturbing mental disorder in which a parent deliberately poisons their own children for an outrageous purpose: the parent THEN becomes the Caretaker/rescuer; selfless and loving in the eyes of others. Munchausen by proxy syndrome, it is called.
Question:
Does this sound even a little like God?
By creating humans inferior and presenting Himself as Superior--human aspirations for wanting to be like their Father (knowing good and bad) led them to disobey. That was their MOTIVE, mind you--not to hurt anybody or steal anything--only to BE LIKE GOD (their Father). For that, they must die?? For that, they must be rescued? ONE LAST POINT If Jehovah is a God of JUSTICE (you get from Him what you deserve)--then how can sinful humans "deserve" to be rescued through forgiveness?

JUSTICE
Grace is termed "underserved" kindness---right?
How is it Justice if it is "underserved"?

Remember John 3:16? For God SO LOVED THE WORLD... To love those who do not deserve love is a self-contradiction because it violates God's own standards of perfection. Why impose such standards in the first place?

Conclusion?

I asked: "What would we think about a person who lived alone in the dark for years and years on purpose?" I would think: INSANE

The God who operates within the Old Testament and New is two kinds of crazy.
I think to suffer a mental disorder from all that alone time in the dark is not unusual.

What do you think?