Jesus is to Jehovah's Witnesses what the appendix is to the human body.
He is vestigial.
TerryWalstrom
JoinedPosts by TerryWalstrom
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Churches: Praise the LORD! ---- JWs: Praise the Org!
by DocHouse insad but true; i've yet to be at a meeting where the org/ 'fds' isn't praised....
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We are praying for you
by James Mixon ini have protestants, jw's and mormons praying for my soul, (think you very much).. what do you say when you are told that??
i am so much better since i left the borg, physically, mentally and financially.
but just in case the protestants(jesus) are right or the mormons or maybe jw, if i meet my maker i will tell him or her i plea insanity.. my deity, i knew not who's prayers was being answers on my behalf, my eyes were open but didn't know where it came from.
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TerryWalstrom
Is there a nice way of saying, "I'm not going to actually DO anything in regard to your problem--but--I'd really like to feel good about my inertia if possible. So, here is how I'll keep my self-respect as well as possibly convince everybody else I really care--I'll ask an invisible, supernatural personage of international renown to violate the laws of nature on your behalf merely because I take the trouble to ask, as well as using the magic word: Jesus."
Yes! Just say: I'LL PRAY FOR YOU!
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7 things we probably should not stop thinking about
by Terry inbelieve what we will, we still live in the real world and what happens to us proceeds from confrontations unavoidable.. the christian scientist can die from an illness which (to him) does not exist.. the hindu can starve to death in a pasture full of sacred cattle.. the jehovah's witness can sell his house and pioneer full time as he tears the pages from his 1975 calendar in exasperation.. and many is the parent who prays for mercy over the child who dies.. to think or not think is our choice.
the content of our thought can be real or illusory.
the progress report comes at the end of each day as we lie in bed and count the costs of our beliefs.. .
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TerryWalstrom
Back. . . WAY back in 1840. . .
a minister named Skinner, known to be a prudent man of sober intellect, was approached to speak out in response, and rebuttal.
Against what or whom, you ask?
Against a theory offered by a war hero named William Miller who was advancing the idea--with 'proofs' from Scripture, that the world would come to its end when the second advent of Christ arrived in 1843.
What Skinner wrote was remarkable.
It was also very much a PRE-ECHO of warning for the much later nonsense published and spread all over planet Earth by the Watchtower Society from circa 1968-1975.
" History informs us, that many have risen
up in different ages, who have advocated the immediate
destruction of the world. And all these '
have had their followers; all these have deluded
many. In some cases, people have been so affected,
as to forsake their business, abandon their
several employments, and leave their families unprovided
with the necessaries of life. In others,
they have sold their possessions, and given up all
to tho church; hoping, thereby, to secure the salvation
of their souls. Hence, it would be no new
thing, if some who receive this theory should forsake
their employments, abandon their houses and
and give themselves up to excitement and
fear; to what they would call a preparation for
the great calamity or judgment they suppose is so
soon to come. "
You can read Skinner's entire statement here:
http://www.a2z.org/wtarchive/docs/1840_Miller's_Theory_Utterly_Exploded.pdf
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HOW TO TURN A HOME BIBLE STUDY into an underground railway
by TerryWalstrom inare you crazy?.
you find yourself 'awake' to the truth about the 'truth' and all you do about it.
is sulk?
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TerryWalstrom
I hear you and I understand what you are saying.
Try this as an alternative.
Use ONLY exact quotations.
Under the general guise of taking a WALK THROUGH the history of the 'TRUTH' you can assemble a BEFORE and AFTER comparison.
On the left-hand side put the older 'truth'
On the right-hand side the "new light."
__________________________
No commentary is necessary.
Even a turnip with a brain stem can see what's going on with this.
It is best to use photographic 'captures' of the quotations straight out of the Society's actual publications.
This is one resource:
http://www.a2z.org/wtarchive/archive.htm
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What if WT will claim, that Jehovah has pulled a "Jonah and Nineveh" on them?
by prologos inwt seems to be helpless in really dealing with the failed prophecies, pending dates, overlapping groups--.. what if they declare victory, blame jehovah, in that he allowed the nations to come to their senses and not further escalate the use of weaponry, "destroying [life on] the earth"?
in a second fulfillment of .
the "repentant ninevites, disappointed jonah" bible story?
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TerryWalstrom
Well, they DID use that excuse in a manner of speaking.
Fred Franz stood up in front of an audience and shook his finger at them and scoldingly said that Armageddon didn't come in 1975, because "YOU" believed (what we told you) that Armageddon would come then."
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I'm sitting here listening to a JW try to recruit somebody
by Terry ini'm at starbucks .
just outside in the courtyard.. i'm trembling.
my hands are shaking.. wow!.
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TerryWalstrom
I guess it is time for an update!
Jordan texted me on Saturday and we got together at Starbucks.
We sat and talked for about 3 hours.
He has certainly made a lot of internal progress toward dealing with his awakening.
He's been engaging in careful conversations with his friends as well.
His awareness of the indoctrination is on full alert because he can now clearly detect the strong element of fear in what the JW's say to him.
For so many of the young people inside the congregation, living a double life is the only way of maintaining sanity, although few can trust their friends to not rat them out. Ultimately a kind of two-faced relationship is the default. Nobody sees who the other person really is or knows what they are actually thinking.
Having me to talk things over with is a release valve. Daily life inside the Organization is like holding your breath until you can safely surface and gasp for oxygen!
He's been doing an incredible amount of independent reading and research into various doctrinal and historical issues. There is a brother in his Hall who is an old-timer who was actually mentioned by Ray Franz in Crisis of Conscience. Jordan is itching to take the guy aside and asking him questions. However, he knows how dangerous that is--so he's holding off for now.
As a matter of fact, he seems to fully grasp how pointless and even cruel it would be to try and wake up people without their being ready for it. As he and I discussed many times before, if you remove a person's safety net of belief--you can plunge them into despair. It is a touchy and delicate process. I'm glad there is so much empathy and restraining caution behind his impulse to shout from the rooftops:)
It got late in the afternoon and he still wanted to talk so he offered to put my bicycle in the back of his truck so he could take me home and I'd not have to ride in the dark down that long and dangerous street!
We ate an Italian restaurant and talked and talked. Finally, he drove me home and hugged me and thanked me for everything.
He's a great fellow and this entire story has been quite a remarkable journey for the both of us.
From the moment I overheard that conversation in which--as my Topic Title says--"I'm sitting here listening to a JW trying to convert somebody"--to the irresistible impulse to intrude and speak my mind, I can only wonder. . .
Each of us has within us the amazing power to transform a life by a word spoken---or not.
If we overthink it, that delicate moment may be lost forever.
That's really something we can think and dwell upon.
Saying just the right thing to the right person at the right time---well, that's an awareness worth developing, imho.
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No Mans Land.........The Void..........Whatever........
by Night Owl inhaving a believing spouse, but no longer having any desire to go to the meetings, or service, this is what i've come to call this space i'm in, and i'm sure a few others are in this same space.. nightowl .
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HOW TO TURN A HOME BIBLE STUDY into an underground railway
by TerryWalstrom inare you crazy?.
you find yourself 'awake' to the truth about the 'truth' and all you do about it.
is sulk?
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TerryWalstrom
Are you crazy?
You find yourself 'awake' to the truth about the 'Truth' and all you do about it
is sulk? That's crazy and worse: it is self-defeating.
IF you are a male in a Jehovah's Witness household you have incredible POWER.
For one thing, if you are smart and not lazy, you can use the Family Bible Study to get your wife and children on a kind of latter-day 'underground railway' to freedom.
The question is, HOW DO YOU DO IT?
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Begin at the beginning by visualizing the OUTCOME you most desire!
1. Awakening your family to the truth about the Truth: that's your goal.
2. Equipping each of you to handle the delicate transition from absolute thinking into freedom TO think.
3. Planning your gradual escape by avoiding confrontation and detection.
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Okay--how do you begin?
You start by accurately assessing status quo.
It's like map reading: determine exactly where you are; where EACH of your family members stands (in regard to belief, conviction, and rational thinking.)
How do you do this?
ASK QUESTIONS
What better and safer context is there for asking questions but the home family Bible study?
As the head of the family, it is your duty to determine the status of each member's 'spiritual health.' Right?
Carefully craft some easy questions in the context of getting each person to reveal where they (think) they stand in regard to the 'Truth.'
LIKE WHAT?
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1. Demonstrate the need for self-awareness.
2. Point out the difference between thinking and knee-jerk indoctrinated answers.
3. Ask 'why?' questions to create a step-by-step kind of pathway rather than lock-step herd mentality.
4. Give practical examples of other religious groups' brain-washed thinking (which is easy for them to see) and break it down for what it is: LOYALTY to men.
5. Explain the difference between making CLAIMS and trusting contrasted with TESTING CLAIMS and holding the results accountable!
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1. Who is the Mediator between us and Jehovah?
(They will automatically say: "Jesus" because that is what the Bible says.
Read the scripture.
"… one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."
1 Timothy 2:5,6Now, read what the Watchtower says which CONTRADICTS the scripture:
"So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the"mediator" only for anointed Christians."
Watchtower 1979 Apr 1 p.31ASK THEM TO TELL YOU WHAT THEY THINK about this.
NOTE:
Having already discussed how OTHER religions trick their members into believing false teachings by getting them to TRUST men and show LOYALTY to leaders who are men, you have laid a contrast-and-compare TEMPLATE before them.
NOTE: Do not TELL them what to think. Lead them into using evidence to conclude for themselves!
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Ask them what the word 'WORSHIP' means.
Discuss the spontaneous nature of admiration and how emotional it is.
Discuss how natural that reaction is: seeing and meeting somebody who is so incredibly talented, wonderful, and admirable.
Ask them what their reaction would be if they suddenly met Jesus face to face.
Read this excerpt from the Watchtower:
"Jehovah God commands all to worship Christ Jesus because Christ Jesus is the express image of his Father, Jehovah, and because he is the Executive Officer of Jehovah always carrying out Jehovah's purpose (Heb.:3-6)." Watchtower 1939 Nov 15 p.339
Point out this was under the President J.F. Rutherford.
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Now go to the time of Brother Knorr's leadership.
"Now, at Christ's coming to reign as king in Jehovah's capital organization Zion, to bring in a righteous new world, Jehovah makes him infinitely higher than the godly angels or messengers and accordingly commands them to worship him. Since Jehovah God now reigns as King by means of his capital organization Zion, then whosoever would worship Him must also worship and bow down to Jehovah's Chief One in that capital organization, namely, Christ Jesus, his Co-regent on the throne of The Theocracy." Watchtower 1945 Oct 15 p.313
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Have them read the Watchtower's original Charter out loud:
(1945 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses)
____________________________
Ask your family how they feel about worship personally--what does it REALLY mean to them?
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Discuss this quote in the Watchtower (Pastor Russell's view):
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Consider this scripture:
"Hence let no one be boasting in men; for all things belong to YOU, whether Paul or Apol'los or Ce'phas or the world or life or death or things now here or things to come, all things belong to YOU; in turn YOU belong to Christ; Christ, in turn, belongs to God." 1 Corinthians 3:21
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What does it mean--'boasting in men'?
What does an 'organization' consist of but men?
______________________
Have them read this excerpt from the Watchtower:
"Ask yourself now, Did Christ Jesus, who set our example and told us to follow his example to gain life, join any church organization in his day? No, God does not require us to do that, but he requires us to worship him... We have the Bible to show us the right way. Certainly it is not necessary for a person to become a member of a church to gain everlasting life." Watchtower 1953 Mar 1 p.143
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The next lesson should begin with the HUGE CHANGE which took place
between 1953 and 1954.
Suddenly Jesus was removed from 'Jehovah's Organization,' and to worship him was forbidden. In fact, the Society called it 'idolatry.' Idolatry is worship of a 'false god.'
Yet, in John 1: 1 the New World Translation reads ". . . and the Word was a god."
Ask how worship of Jesus could possibly be idolatry and yet it is called "CHRISTianity?"
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The above is just my own peculiar examples of how this Family Bible Study
could be used.
The object is to use headship authority under the pretext of family study to
achieve a common ground in which one might EXPOSE the irrationality of Watchtower
claims.
Only by actuating the thinking process can your family board the underground railway to freedom.
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No Mans Land.........The Void..........Whatever........
by Night Owl inhaving a believing spouse, but no longer having any desire to go to the meetings, or service, this is what i've come to call this space i'm in, and i'm sure a few others are in this same space.. nightowl .
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TerryWalstrom
You have no idea how much POWER a husband has in a JW household obviously :)
You are the HEAD.
The wife is SUBMISSIVE.
Wow!
Do you not imagine how a long-term family Bible study (a REAL study) controlled by you could work to your family's advantage?
By disconnecting from your own POWER you are indeed powerless as you watch your wife and marriage go off the rails!
Remember the so-called 'Theocratic Strategy?'
Reverse that.
Get smart. Plan out what you are going to do step-by-step.
Take the steering wheel and drive from captivity into freedom with everybody under your roof on board. You'll all be much happier in the long run.
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How to Hear God's Voice Easily and Effectively: A Book Review
by Hortensia inhttp://smile.amazon.com/hear-gods-voice-easily-effectively-ebook/dp/b00nplbit8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=utf8&qid=1420441456&sr=8-2&keywords=how+to+hear+god%27s+voice.
i think perhaps this book doesn't really examine the issue in depth.
for instance, my niece suggests that the first necessary step to hearing god's voice is to skip your meds.. i'm sure we could all come up with better ways than the namby-pamby stuff recommended in this book that would enable anyone to hear god's voice.. a very tight necktie, for instance.. playing modern christian music backwards, while drinking mogen david.. instead of skipping your meds, in some cases it works better to double your meds.. wear a tin-foil pyramid hat.
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TerryWalstrom
My definition of prayer is: Pretending to be really busy getting God
to answer your requests while you are, in fact, doing absolutely nothing.
'Listening to God' is like playing with an Ouija board. Sure, the planchette is 'moving' but are you 'really' in contact with the 'spirits'? or Jacking around fooling your own self?
The Governing Body thinks of themselves as a conduit for Divine Messages!
Which is crazier--making that claim or believing somebody else who makes it?
If God could 'make the stones cry out' would actually DO so--He could convert the entire planet in less than an hour.
