TerryWalstrom

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Posts by TerryWalstrom

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  9

  SILLY OBSESSION: Jehovah's Witnesses' Conspiracy Theory about the Return of Christ

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ______silly obsessionsome groups of people in the world believe flying saucers and space aliens are secretly visiting our planet intervening in man’s affairs.

  jehovah’s witnesses believe something very similar!

  "before leaving the earth, jesus christ promised to return.".

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  TerryWalstrom

  Jehovah's Witnesses confuse the horizon line with an actual destination.

  Approach the horizon by moving forward? Hardly. It's always there, depending on your visibility, about 10 miles distant :)
• 
  9

  SILLY OBSESSION: Jehovah's Witnesses' Conspiracy Theory about the Return of Christ

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ______silly obsessionsome groups of people in the world believe flying saucers and space aliens are secretly visiting our planet intervening in man’s affairs.

  jehovah’s witnesses believe something very similar!

  "before leaving the earth, jesus christ promised to return.".

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  TerryWalstrom

  ______SILLY OBSESSION
  
  Some groups of people in the world believe Flying Saucers and space Aliens are secretly visiting our planet intervening in man’s affairs. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe something very similar! Except, the space alien is JESUS!

  Throughout the history of Christianity, there has never been any confusion about what the phrase

  "The Return of Christ" actually means. But, the doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses seek to destroy and replace the obvious meaning with an unnecessarily complicated teaching.

  Why?

  Watchtower’s Corporation has always been run by persons who are into a Conspiracy Theory.
  They have been obsessed with setting dates and stubbornly defending those false dates.
  A conspiracy theory is an explanation of an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy without any warrant, involving a harmful act carried out by some kind of government or other powerful actors.

  For Jehovah’s Witnesses, a government has been set up in Heaven / Earth, invisible but detected by a special elite group (Governing Body) to warn of the powerful coming destruction of the ruler Jesus Christ, hellbent on vengeance!

  ______

  The religious Doctrines of Watchtower are nothing more than dishonest efforts to prove they are right and everybody else is wrong, wrong, wrong!
  Yes, while some crazy folks search for Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster, Jehovah’s Witnesses are the crazies who believe in an invisible Jesus who is about to murder every man, woman, and child on earth.

  Wipe out eight billion people for what?

  For NOT BELIEVING the Watchtower’s doctrines!

  _____________________

  _____________WARPING IDEAS through misuse of WORDS

  If somebody in your home told you they were going away to Disneyland in Europe, but they were going to return later and take you with them next time, would you easily understand?

  LEAVING: departing from your house

  RETURNING: coming back to your house

  Simple enough? Yes!
  To LEAVE is to depart from a location by going elsewhere.

  To RETURN is to come back to a location after having departed.

  Simple enough? Yes!

  Not for the Watchtower's geniuses--no way.

  ___________________

  Now let's go through this exercise using a WATCHTOWER STYLE DEFINITION, shall we?

  ___________________

  

  From Watchtower reference book, REASONING FROM THE SCRIPTURES, page 340 under the heading: RETURN of CHRIST

  ________________

  Quote:

  "Before leaving the Earth, Jesus Christ promised to return."

  Sounds promising and simple. Do they leave it at that?

  Will this Watchtower reference book DEFLECT, CONFUSE, and REDEFINE the simple meaning of RETURN to fit pre-existing Watchtower Doctrine?
  Let’s examine the text...

  ___________________

  Definition: "Before leaving the earth, Jesus Christ promised to return. (So far so good!) Thrilling events in connection with God’s Kingdom are associated with

  That promise. (Okay) It should be noted that there is a difference between

  coming and presence. (Hold on--not so fast!) Thus, while a person’s coming (associated with his arrival or return) occurs at a given time, his presence may thereafter extend over a period of years . . . " (Oops--we just rolled off the runway into the weeds!)

  __________STOP the madness!______________

  Notice above: Immediately a deflection has been introduced unnecessarily.

  Watchtower publications sabotage the defining process by interrupting it and diverting attention to DOGMA instead. If you leave home for Disneyland and return to your home from Disneyland, does it matter how long your vacation lasts? Or is that a completely different subject?

  __________CONTINUING from above:___________________

  ". . . In the Bible the Greek word er’kho-mai (“to come”) is also

  used with reference to Jesus’ directing his attention to an important

  Task at a specific time during his presence, namely, to his work as

  Jehovah’s executioner at the war of the great day of God the Almighty.”

  ________STOP!____________

  Did you notice?

  A side argument is wedged inside our definition of RETURN now complicated by the introduction of a Greek term which itself has other meanings.

  ___________________

  NOW IT GETS TRICKY!

  Remember, Jesus departed and promised to RETURN. When Jesus departed he was ON THE EARTH. Will the Watchtower publication tell us WHERE it is Jesus RETURNS to at his second coming? Throughout the history of Christianity, there has never been any confusion about the phrase "The Return of Christ" as far as what it actually means. No. What has confused people is the surrounding dogma concerning WHEN it occurs.

  Doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses seek to destroy and replace the obvious meaning with an unnecessarily complicated teaching about WHEN. They are very “date” oriented!

  Watchtower is obsessed with setting False Dates for the Return of Christ

  
  

  1. 1799, 1874 and later 1914, followed by a kind of second / second coming later at Armageddon.

  2. To cover up the failure of prediction, a silly"invisible presence" argument was tacked on to save the day. Jesus “arrived” unseen, they say. Therefore our false date for his coming was a REAL date.

  3. Once the Watchtower invented a Returned Christ--they had to explain why the End of the World didn’t happen!

  4. The preaching work and door to door ministry was invented to fill up the deafening silence and inactivity of a returned King Jesus, patiently tapping His foot while that work is carried out ineptly by a group of conspirators with a silly theory!

  ______________________

  The entire doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses rests on one tiny point. It is an extravagant effort, like any conspiracy theory or weird belief. The JW’s must explain why NOTHING happens at a time when EVERYTHING is supposed to come to an end.

  Christians have expected “every eye shall see Him” when he comes back. Watchtower has to convince these same people “every eye shall NOT see Him.”

  Wow! How will they pull that one off? Will it be by counterfeiting the words? Yes!

  
  

  The Greek word "parousia" can mean either COMING or ARRIVAL, or PRESENCE depending on the CONTEXT.

  Jehovah's Witnesses ignore context and insist on PRESENCE to foist the "invisible" rescue argument into it.

  Why?

  They have to prove their conspiracy theory: If Jesus did NOT return when they PREDICTED IT--they are obviously FALSE PROPHETS.

  So, basically, they are saying, “Yes we are right, you are just too blind and stubborn to ‘see.’”

  ____________________

  Let us ask an important question here.

  IN THE DAYS OF NOAH the flood was coming.

  When the flood finally arrived (parousia) . . . WAS IT INVISIBLE WATER?

  No.

  With that understanding in mind, read this:

  _______________________

  MATTHEW 24:39

  “And they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood

  Came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming

  Of the Son of Man.”

  _____________________

  The Watchtower religion is built entirely on an ERROR in predicting the 2nd COMING.

  The doctrines are silly, contradictory, and illogical because they must bend everything to make that work.

  __________________________

  Watchtower is obsessed with false chronology and the Bible.
  Watchtower can’t escape that obsession.

  To obsess is: preoccupy or fill the mind of (someone) continually, intrusively, and to a troubling extent.

  Think of the burden JW's must carry around lugging the heavy anchor of 607 B.C.E when it is easily refuted as a confirmed date in history with events which did not occur when they insist these events actually did occur!

  607 "proves" 1914 or it refutes 1914.
  The Watchtower has to insist, no matter what, this date is true.

  
  ______________
  In the Bible, the SIGN of something comes BEFORE the event itself. That is common sense.
  When you drive on the freeway, is the MAIN STREET EXIT sign before the exit or after?
  
  Watchtower wrecks common sense by introducing reverse-definition in REASONING FROM THE SCRIPTURES. (See the book above?)
  How?

  Watchtower tells us that invisible Jesus returns AND THEN the sign of His return shows up!

  WHY does the Watchtower put the SIGN of Jesus' return AFTER he arrives?

  Because they have to cover up the fact JESUS DID NOT return in 1914.

  ____________

  Dishonesty, corruption, false teaching, poor reasoning, and outright lying is at the bottom

  of all DEFINITIONS given by this religion. This is what we mean by WATCHTOWER STYLE.

  
  

  “Following Christ’s return, some persons show faith; they recognize the

  Sign of his presence. Others reject the evidence, but when Christ goes

  into action as God’s executioner of the wicked, even they will discern

  From the manifestation of his power that the destruction is not from men

  but from heaven. They will know what is happening because they were

  Warned in advance. Because of what is overtaking them, they will ‘beat

  themselves in grief.’”

  __________________________

  So this must be seen as hilarious! Everybody is looking for the MAIN STREET EXIT before the exit itself while Jehovah’s Witnesses insist we already got off on Main Street and the exit sign is in front of us “invisibly.”

  Aren’t they telling us, “You stupid and stubborn people who don’t believe what we say are gonna be very sorry when Jesus kills you for not accepting our conspiracy theory.”

  Yes. That’s the game Jehovah’s Witnesses play.

  They try and scare everybody into believing in their silly obsession with false date setting!

  ___________

  The next time Jehovah’s Witnesses come to your door, ask them why Jesus Returned and did NOT do any of the things JW’s said he would do--and continues to NOT do--for 102 years.

  The JW’s will say, “He’s being merciful so you don’t have to die, we are warning you.”

  So you reply, “When Jesus Returned, did he actually ‘return’ to Earth?”
  The JW will reply, “He turned his attention to the Earth--but--He won’t actually come back until He kills your sorry ass at Armageddon.”

  You will say, “Have you ever seen a psychiatrist, you goofy, self-absorbed lunatic?Stop wasting your time and mine with this silly obsession. Elvis is dead. Bigfoot was a man in a gorilla suit and your Governing Body think their farts don’t stink. Well, guess what? I can smell them on YOUR BREATH!”
  
  "I LOVE THE SMELL OF GB FARTS IN THE MORNING. IT SMELLS LIKE Dub Breath!"
  
  
  
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  25

  My oldest friend, Quincy Roberts, Ex-JW died last night at age 66

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the first time i walked into a kingdom hall, i was about 15 years old.

  i shook hands with a 12-year-old named quincy.

  as time passed and we grew older, quincy hung out with us older j-dubs.

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  TerryWalstrom

  We did love each other in the time we spent, the conversations we shared, and the memories we made. I'm a far, far better man than I ever would have been had I missed Q's friendship.

  When we were so very small and stood wobbly on untried legs and took those uncertain first steps, I doubt we knew why we bothered or where that unknown journey might lead or end.

  And as we, one by one, bend worn knees one last time, take one final sip of life's promises, is any question more precious than why we've bothered?

  Hardly any of us knows when our last words are spoken.

  If we did know--would we make those words cheap, angry, or cold?
  Every single day--each of us comes closer to speaking an epitaph. I remind myself of that.
  Now, I've reminded you as well.
  
  
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  21

  Memories of Grace Gough

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi everyone;i'm not on here too much anymore, but i've been asked to write a brief biography of our dear grace gough ('mouthy' on here).

  i'm writing my own memories of her but it was also suggested that i maybe contact others who knew her to see if they had a nice memory or two of her they'd like to share.

  it would only have to be a paragraph or two and your name can be kept confidential if you like.

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  TerryWalstrom

  From time to time over the many years I've posted here, "Mouthy" would send a PM with words of either appreciation or encouragement. She was a straight shooter without baggage, agenda, or pretense. I like her and what she had to say.

  She was like the air itself--so necessary in a taken-for-granted way. Now I'm sorry I would take her for granted at all.

  We come and we go--each and all of us--don't we? Some of us are shadows of pain and some are luminous and warm. None of us need be strangers.

  Mouthy wasn't a stranger. Not at all. She was a real person. Authentic, caring, and able to reach out and connect. My world was made better for having known her.

  We could all do worse than have that said when we pass on. No?
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  25

  My oldest friend, Quincy Roberts, Ex-JW died last night at age 66

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the first time i walked into a kingdom hall, i was about 15 years old.

  i shook hands with a 12-year-old named quincy.

  as time passed and we grew older, quincy hung out with us older j-dubs.

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  TerryWalstrom

  It actually didn't hit me until around 4 this afternoon. I just started crying while sitting in Starbucks like some idiot. I couldn't stop. Wow! I didn't like that at all.

  I thought I could distance myself emotionally. Thought I could.
  Couldn't.
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  25

  My oldest friend, Quincy Roberts, Ex-JW died last night at age 66

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the first time i walked into a kingdom hall, i was about 15 years old.

  i shook hands with a 12-year-old named quincy.

  as time passed and we grew older, quincy hung out with us older j-dubs.

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  TerryWalstrom

  Moral support like this certainly isn't available in the JW community like it is in the

  Ex-JW community! People inside the Org are in such total denial of grief and have such a lame attitude about it, they don't bother honoring the LOSS in death, so fervent is the nay-saying about its finality.
  
  We come and we go like April snow.
  
  Thanks folks, I appreciate your taking a pause to salute my dear friend, Quincy.
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  25

  My oldest friend, Quincy Roberts, Ex-JW died last night at age 66

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the first time i walked into a kingdom hall, i was about 15 years old.

  i shook hands with a 12-year-old named quincy.

  as time passed and we grew older, quincy hung out with us older j-dubs.

  1. 
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  TerryWalstrom

  This was Quincy's last username:

  quincy_aka_quentin

  __________
  
  I appreciate all the kind words, believe me.
• 
  25

  My oldest friend, Quincy Roberts, Ex-JW died last night at age 66

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the first time i walked into a kingdom hall, i was about 15 years old.

  i shook hands with a 12-year-old named quincy.

  as time passed and we grew older, quincy hung out with us older j-dubs.

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  TerryWalstrom

  Here is Quentin's bio. He wrote it the last time he fell ill (and we all figured he'd die).

  Biography:
  "My parents became Jehovah's Witnesses in 1953. I grew up under the old congregation regime, Congregation Servant, Assistant Servant and Theocratic Ministry School Servant, along with assorted Ministerial Servants. Dad was disfellowshipped in 1956. He went to meetings with us off and on until he was reinstated in '62. I was baptized in '63. I liked being a Jehovah's Witnesses, field service, meetings, and especially the assemblies. Back then a reinstated brother, such as my dad, had to wait ten years before they would be permitted to do anything in the congregation except answer questions at meetings, do field service and conduct studies with interested persons. They couldn't even give the lead talk in the Ministry School. Our family was just plain old publishers. That all changed.
  
  
  In 1971 I moved to a neighboring city and began attending a local Hall. The following year I was assigned by the Congregation Overseer to conduct the Watchtower Study in a new congregation that was being formed. I was to do this until the Society made their full-time appointments for that Kingdom Hall. It was made known to me that, at some point in time, I would become the Assistant Literature servant in my congregation. Life was good for me as an up and coming young Witness. Then I shot myself in the foot. How, you ask? Well, let me tell you.
  
  
  I met a girl. We dated. I asked her to marry me. She accepted. So far, so good, a lot of young witnesses get married and start families. Trouble was, she was an "interested person" only, she wasn't even "baptized". Not only that, she was divorced and smoked. Because she was divorced we had to appear before the Congregation Overseer and Assistant Overseer, with witnesses, that could confirm her previous husband had remarried. Otherwise, I could have been disfellowshiped for adultery. Now, I don't know if that has changed since then, at the time that was the rule. Needless to say, I was no longer considered for a Ministerial Servants position. I took it on the chin like the good Witnesses I was along with my unbaptised wife, who never faltered in her support for me.
  
  
  After all, the brother's were only doing their biblical duty to protect the flock from a renegade. That's what the then current Literature Servant called me. Later he was disfellowshiped. Seems he had been a closet smoker for years. When that became a disfellowshiping offense he got nailed. His comment was tame compared to what others did and said, simply because I got married. There's more to this story, but it would take a book to tell it all. Let me just say that it was the beginning of the scales falling from my eyes.
  
  
  Except for a few who accepted, in the true spirit of agape, my wife and myself for our marriage, and who we were, an entire congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses became our enemy. I do not use that word lightly. They were the enemy. We became awash in innuendo, vicious gossip, slander and outright lies. Even my wife's best friend, who had introduced us, became an enemy. This loving sister took it upon herself to call my wife's mother, who had no love whatever for Jehovah's Witnesses, and tell her I was a wife beater. It caused a lot of damage between my mother in law and me, which took years to overcome. It broke my wife's heart and caused her to tell me: "I don't care what you do, I'll never set foot in a Kingdom Hall again" and she didn't.
  
  
  I had numerous conversations with "older mature brothers" who were supposed to know spiritual things. I got the same advice that I have read and heard others say they got. "Wait on Jehovah", don't "run ahead", and most of all "be patient". I was being told in so many words that my choice of a wife was the cause of all the strife and division in the congregation and even though some of the brother's and sister's acted rashly, Jehovah's people were guiltless, after all, I'm the one who became "unevenly yoked" while they remained faithful to Jehovah and his Organization.
  
  I "grew up in the truth". To coin a phrase I was a cradle Jehovah's Witness. I felt like the guy who retired that was handed a gold plated watch and a tin placket to hang on the wall that said: "Glad you were here, but now you gotta go".
  
  
  With that experience at the hands of "Gods People" and the manner in which my mother was disfellowshiped I struck my tent in 1974 and moved on. Wish I could say I never looked back, it just wouldn't be true. It took a long time to get the Watchtower out of my system and I don't think my experiences, as a Jehovah's Witness, or the aftermath, are all that different from what others have gone through. Weather you're a current Witness, living in hell on earth, agonizing over what to do, or an ex Watchtower slave, making a life for yourself, we've all have made the same journey, one way or the other. We all have the same story to tell. Which can be summed up in one word: betrayal.
  
  
  One more thing before I end. I didn't get caught up in 1975. Some folks did. Don't know why, but I just didn't think about it much. I didn't experience the "body of Elders" in the way many of you have. When I left it really hadn't taken full effect. I will say, from what I have read over the last several years, including Ray Franz book, it is without a doubt the most insidious burden the Society has ever placed on the backs of Jehovah's Witnesses. Highhanded, kangaroo court, lynch mob mentality, unjust, power monger, dictator, thug, bully, Gestapo are a few words and phrases that come to mind. What a millstone."
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  25

  My oldest friend, Quincy Roberts, Ex-JW died last night at age 66

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the first time i walked into a kingdom hall, i was about 15 years old.

  i shook hands with a 12-year-old named quincy.

  as time passed and we grew older, quincy hung out with us older j-dubs.

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  TerryWalstrom

  Thanks for the kind condolences. Quincy split from the Dubs early in the 70's while I last about five years longer.
  Quincy came and went from the Discussion group as his health permitted.
  April 23rd of this year, I wrote a letter to another old friend about a little car trip Quincy and I had taken just the day before. I found this letter and I thought I'd reprint part of it here:
  ____________
  Dear (_____),
  I awoke from last night’s dream and sat up abruptly with a sick feeling in my chest.
  This feeling had origins, and I know it was yesterday’s visit to the world of long ago.
  
  Quincy Roberts and I made our way to the Poly area of Ft.Worth and stalked our youthful yesteryears. We were reaching for jigsaw puzzle pieces and matching the edges of memory to emotions until a once familiar picture emerged for reappraisal.
  
  I stood in front of the building which once had been the Polytechnic Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The familiar and the unfamiliar slowly seeped in.
  Things were not the same of course because things fall apart, the center will not hold. Changes are stab wounds. I felt each alteration acutely and took the sharp violations of time and space very personally.
  
  The sun was bright and a fair breeze cooled us just enough for our vigil to be pleasant. I sensed something rising in my chest which wouldn’t go away until it had its say.
  
  We found Quincy’s childhood home, the 2nd apartment where JoAnn and I lived, Jenny and Steve Santa Cruz’s house on Vaughn Boulevard, and Binkley Ave. That was where you lived when I met you.
  Street signs triggered sudden memories of knocking on doors and handing out magazines when I Pioneered. Most of those people were adults who are now long dead!
  Now even Johnny is dead.
  My connections are snapping like old ropes tethering my vessel to life itself.
  Street by street we wandered. I felt something in my skull rewiring!
  Inside, old circuits flickered where strange alchemy linked place with the memory of times and feelings. Yet, honesty, it’s all broken glass, unmowed grass, overgrown yards and alien landscape. We were two old guys projecting images and significance onto a backdrop.
  
  A peculiar resonance, like the after-tones of a once rung bell, trembled in the soles of our shoes. Quincy and I exhaled slowly. We sighed with clenched teeth as we exchanged our paint-peeled reminiscences. We had a lot to say about practically nothing.
  I became depressed and elated simultaneously! I’m a piece of the puzzle and I don’t fit.
  Here was the beginning of things unknown, unseen and undreamt. The future, back then, was untraveled. Now I’m with my oldest living friend at journey’s end. We’re broken things out of place searching for meaning. . . and there’s none to be had. The clock is our assassin.
  
  These buildings and neighborhoods and memories are rusted and worn and steeped in desuetude (an old vocabulary word from my teen years I finally get to use!)
  There is a sense of failure everywhere; it is a poor side of town; it merely exists.
  Quincy and Terry, two old men, barely exist. At least, in that one thing, we finally fit in.
  
  Later in the day, after we had gone our separate ways, my cell phone rang and it was Quincy still in the excited state of half-euphoria mixed with a sense of loss. He just wanted to say how much our little journey had meant to him. I agreed and we both became silent again. It had finally become real.
  We felt our doom approaching.
  _____Snip_____
  
• 
  25

  My oldest friend, Quincy Roberts, Ex-JW died last night at age 66

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the first time i walked into a kingdom hall, i was about 15 years old.

  i shook hands with a 12-year-old named quincy.

  as time passed and we grew older, quincy hung out with us older j-dubs.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TerryWalstrom

  The first time I walked into a Kingdom Hall, I was about 15 years old.
  I shook hands with a 12-year-old named Quincy. As time passed and we grew older, Quincy hung out with us older J-Dubs. He was an intelligent person with a broad and curious mind. By the time I was 18, he was definitely a part of my life along with other 'brothers' in the Hall, back when things were a bit less North Korean.

  He parted from Jehovah's Witnesses when the Elders at the Kingdom Hall rejected his association with his "worldly' fiancee', telling him to dump her as she would be a drag on his spirituality.

  He made his decision and never looked back.
  Quincy and I reconnected right here on this Discussion Group about 12 years ago. He spotted my posts and sent me a PM. We never looked back after that.

  Quincy was the kind of friend few people get to have in life. He'd crawl across broken glass if he'd thought it would help you. He was honest, blunt, true and blue.
  
  These last five years have been plagued by rotten health. He came close to death at least once or twice a year, but his hardiness and stamina pulled him out of the abyss, time after time.

  Last night, after two weeks in hospice, he died in his own bed at home in Weatherford, Texas.
  He was my 2nd oldest friend. He follows in death my oldest friend, Johnny Santa Cruz who died this past March.
  
  I love Quincy. I honor his memory. I'll never allow his memory to fade as long as I draw breath.
  I just thought I'd share this death notice with those of you who remember him too.