Posts by Rattigan350

30

CIVILIAN SERVICE

by blondie in

how many remember when the wts changed their policy on alternative service; changed it to alternative civilian service so jw men could choose it because it was not supervised by the military.

shows how the wts quibbles with words to advance a "new teaching.

" flag salute, voting, civilian service p. 212. civilian service.

Rattigan350

"What about" Pay Caesar's things to Caesar and God's things to God?"

What about it? This whole interaction is obvious.

Matt 22:15 Then the Pharisees went and conspired together in order to trap him in his speech

16: So they sent their disciples to him, together with party followers of Herod

17 :Tell us, then, what do you think? Is it lawful* to pay head tax to Caesar or not?”

18 But Jesus, knowing their wickedness, said: “Why do you put me to the test, hypocrites?

Jesus knew that if he said yes, Pay them. They would accuse him of siding with the Romans.

If he said No, don't pay them. Then they would bring accusations to the Romans that he is teaching not to pay the tax.

So he declined to answer the question, but he referred to the coin and what it showed so they answered the question themselves. Jesus was good at sidestepping their questions.

30

CIVILIAN SERVICE

by blondie in

how many remember when the wts changed their policy on alternative service; changed it to alternative civilian service so jw men could choose it because it was not supervised by the military.

shows how the wts quibbles with words to advance a "new teaching.

" flag salute, voting, civilian service p. 212. civilian service.

Rattigan350

They get the Neutrality doctrinal policy wrong. While Jesus said that they were to be no part of the world, they lost the context of this.

There had been prophesies of the messiah from back to Moses' time, then Isaiah, Daniel and others.

They recognized Jesus as the Messiah but they expected him to free Israel from the Romans like Israel was freed from Babylon. That is why in Acts 1:6 they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?"

Jesus didn't say Yes or no but he told them that their job would be to preach him in the world.

The land of Israel had no more use to God. Christians didn't need a land as their kingdom was heavenly.

Being no part of the world meant not to put their allegiances in the world, but it didn't mean hands off on what is going on. While it mean that we are to have love for our brothers and the people it does not mean that when our neighborhoods are attacked, we just don't do anything.

81

My conclusion on the matter

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

after being brought up a jw, going to mts, bethel, pioneer school multiple times, serving in foreign assignments and having been an elder for decades my conclusion is that i am now pima, physically in mentally agnostic.. agnostic means you think it can’t be proven either way creation or evolution.

i do tend to lean towards evolution but creation at the very start because you can’t get life from dead matter.

but i’m open to the possibility of chance theory at the origin of it all.

Rattigan350

The problem that I have with the religion is that they are pharisees in that they look to works to make us clean before God. They take the words of Paul and make the law thinking that following them will make us clean and not following them will make us not clean; but forgetting that Jesus is what makes us clean.

4

The "woman" in Genesis 3:15 ain't what the org says it is!

by BoogerMan in

(genesis 3:15) and i will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring.

(revelation 12:1) then a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman was arrayed with the sun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of 12 stars,.

re chap.

Rattigan350

The Israel of God is the woman or God's heavenly organization once it is resurrected to heaven.

They got this one right.

33

THIS is how Jehovah operates? Examining GB Jefffrey Winder's words

by Terry in

governing body member jeffrey winder on jw dot org:“we are not embarrassed about ‘adjustments’ that are made; nor is an apology needed for not getting it ‘exactly right’ previously.

we understand: this is how jehovah operates.”

1952 no wt 6/1/52 p.338 1965 maybe they will be resurrected .

Rattigan350

Terry is good at looking in the rear-view mirror and making obvious statement about the past.

Here is an obvious statement about the past:

When the forecast of 1925 failed and then 1975 failed the wheels didn't fall off the religion or the organization.

I just don't understand the point of rehashing these things over and over again. Rutherford is dead, Franz is dead. Knorr is dead. Focus on the living.

33

THIS is how Jehovah operates? Examining GB Jefffrey Winder's words

by Terry in

governing body member jeffrey winder on jw dot org:“we are not embarrassed about ‘adjustments’ that are made; nor is an apology needed for not getting it ‘exactly right’ previously.

we understand: this is how jehovah operates.”

1952 no wt 6/1/52 p.338 1965 maybe they will be resurrected .

Rattigan350

When it comes to 1975, they based that off what they thought were 7000 year creative days. That idea went back to the 1820 with Henry Finnes Clinton and to William Miller. So we can't really blame Fred Franz for that. It was open ended and the numbers pointed towards the future. But they didn't understand. They all didn't understand that the creative days were not 7000 years long. The six days of creation listed were actually 6 24 hour days, but the events within encompassed millions of years.

As for 1925, I had totally forgotten what the calculations were that Rutherford used. That shows how insignficant it is.

But as far as the old books go; I can understand how they say get rid of them and don't use them because it is a totally different organization from the one that produced those books.

37

If you were to design a new religion?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

what the jw sect has become and is slowly becoming is far more near what i thought could be a good religion based on the bible.. no more counting hours and no more blindly following direction now they admit they are not inspired.. i would like to design a new sect inside the jws.

it has to be kept secret because the elders would not like it.. this new sect involves giving a tick every month or so saying you are still kindof active talking about the bible.. going to meetings occasionally and attending on zoom sometimes.

very rarely go to ministry groups but don’t ever do first call, just say you are doing street work and have a nice walk somewhere maybe the shops or the park.

Rattigan350

From Rutherford on, the goal was to please Jehovah so that they will survive Jehovah's great day, but then they did it the Pharisee's way. The Pharisees too the law of Moses and expanded on it and showed off to everyone about how faithful they are to obedience. Jesus called them out for that saying they burdened the people. Post Rutherford, they did the same thing but they are not listening to what Jesus said. That new Enjoy Life book is just a rule book so that people see the rules and obey them and think that they will live forever.

JW v2023 is the new kinder gentler organization, as last week's midweek meeting had a part on depression and even going to professionals. That wouldn't fly in the past. They would just give the charge of go out and preach at all costs.

37

If you were to design a new religion?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

what the jw sect has become and is slowly becoming is far more near what i thought could be a good religion based on the bible.. no more counting hours and no more blindly following direction now they admit they are not inspired.. i would like to design a new sect inside the jws.

it has to be kept secret because the elders would not like it.. this new sect involves giving a tick every month or so saying you are still kindof active talking about the bible.. going to meetings occasionally and attending on zoom sometimes.

very rarely go to ministry groups but don’t ever do first call, just say you are doing street work and have a nice walk somewhere maybe the shops or the park.

Rattigan350

"they have admitted they are not inspired"

The Governing Body is inspired the same as Paul was inspired. The thing is, people don't understand what the word 'inspired' means. While it can mean getting direct messages from God, mentally, audibly or in vision, the word inspired means where the idea came from.

Movies are inspired by true stories. Songs are inspired by events in the writer's life. So when Paul writes that all scripture is inspired of God, he means Gen - Malachi originated from God and the focus and idea of the apostles' writing was from those scriptures and for the serving God.

That's how the Governing body is inspired by God in that they use the scriptures as a basis for their serving God, not that they got direct information from God, Jesus or the angels.

8

"Watchtower" vs Jehovah's Witnesses

by NotFormer in

jw
friends

rattigan350, whenever someone brings up the failings of the organisation we refer to as "the watchtower", tries to define the argument away by saying that the watchtower is a corporate entity and has very little to do with the kingdom halls, the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses.. could someone who knows their stuff please explain if this is a false dichotomy, using the literature which is used by r&f jws, if possible?.

it gets kind of tiresome when someone makes a point about something that the watchtower said and mr. apologist comes along and tries to define away what is usually a very good point..

Rattigan350

The WTBTS is a corporation that owns property and printing presses. People more than 20 years ago used to use the term "The Society" when referring to the religious authority of the Watchtower magazine, and other publications and the writers. Back in 2000 the Watchtower Society split from the Governing body and is no longer the religious authority of the religion and the people within. The Governing Body is referred to as the Faithful and Discreet slave that Jesus said to have appointed, thus the Governing Body is the spiritual overseers of the organization, not the Watchtower Society.

Then there is the CCJW which is not so much of a property and money holder but the Corportation that is more aligned with the religious aspect of matters. That is what runs and operates and directs the congregations. In other words the CCJW is what is referred to as the Branch. The GB communicates to the congregations through the CCJW, not the Watchtower Society; although the Watchtower is still the name of the magazine that is studied on the weekend meetings.

The failings of the organization is what people refer to as the doctrinal changes. I don't see how that is a failing. It is simply as it was said in the AGM, a better understanding. Not being dogmatic about specifics that were not stated in the Bible. Because sometimes an issue is looked at narrowly but later the view is expanded and looked at with a wider scope. It's like a Supreme Court will make a ruling or issued opinion and then later they will overrule it because there are different people in there and different understandings and different views.

Those people were wicked and because they were destroyed in Sodom they are gone; but Jesus said in an metaphor they are not so bad. But then what about these ones such as an 8 year old girl who died in the flood, etc. Why does anyone care? Worry about those alive today and not the ones who died many millenia ago.

I'm not an apologist. I'm a centerist. I think proJW is wrong and I think antiJW is wrong. So what is right is somewhere in between.

33

THIS is how Jehovah operates? Examining GB Jefffrey Winder's words

by Terry in

governing body member jeffrey winder on jw dot org:“we are not embarrassed about ‘adjustments’ that are made; nor is an apology needed for not getting it ‘exactly right’ previously.

we understand: this is how jehovah operates.”

1952 no wt 6/1/52 p.338 1965 maybe they will be resurrected .

Rattigan350

Someone sure had too much time on his/her hands to be researching all of that.

But then, the question is: Does any of that matter?

Is anyone a Watchtower follower?